The Avatar Blu-ray Release Thread

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Actually you got it all wrong. I do not mind Avatar, it does what it does well. In fact it's a typical James Cameron movie, using all of his good old formula to make a entertaining movie that can please a wide range of people using the newest tech the best way possible. What I disagre with is the HYPE for calling it the greatest movie ever. I love...no I adore Star Wars, it's my favorite movie of all time...note the difference "my favorite movie of all time". I would never make the claim that Star Wars is the greatest movie of all time because 30 years ago it destroyed everything else at the box office. What I do not like is the blindness that surround our society now a days going with "the greatest thing ever" for everything or anyone that is at the moment popular. There is a huge difference with being popular and being great. Popular does not equal great. As I keep saying, just two years ago The Dark Knight was for 90% of people the greatest movie ever. So now just 24 months later it's already forgotten and people have moved on to something else. That is what I dislike, this going from thread to thread claiming that what they just saw a few moments ago is the greatest thing in history. That is nothing but hyped and not greatest. Hype as no staying power. In fact I respect more Titanic then Avatar for the simple fact that it as not gone through this insane period that we have now that everything that is coming out, everything that win's championship, everything that is on radio or TV is the greatest thing ever.

I dont agree with that too.
But, I was claiming that Avatar is a much bigger cultural heritage for the entire humanking than is GWTW at this moment.

What will be in 20 years, I rely on James Cameron Reputation with his previous long-lived movies.

[garyrc]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

So, while nobody knows about GWTW outside USA, everyone knows avatar. [/B]

People throughout the world know about GWTW. It is sometimes the butt of British and French jokes about the sentimentality of American culture. Many have seen it, and others merely know about it the same way we know about The Battleship Potemkin, Breathless (original French version), The Seventh Seal, The World of Apu, etc.

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by garyrc

People throughout the world know about GWTW. It is sometimes the butt of British and French jokes about the sentimentality of American culture. Many have seen it, and others merely know about it the same way we know about The Battleship Potemkin, Breathless (original French version), The Seventh Seal, The World of Apu, etc.

I really dont agree with you, we just both possess limited info to make our arguments 100% clear.

In this case, lets generalize the question a little bit more.
You think that American classics are as good know in Europe and Asia as are their respective classics?

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Avatar just lacks that presence in our culture. In 10 years, nobody will remember Avatar.

Oh, and it's not that I don't like Avatar, I think it's a step forward in Hollywood moviemaking. However, Avatar will never achieve the kind of notoriety that the films listed on AFI top 100 lists. It's one of those, what I call, 1-hit wonders. While it's made money for the studio, it will never be recognized as part of America's culture.

If Cameron goes ahead and makes those rumored sequels, you can definitely kiss that theory goodbye.


.

[DRS]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Actually you got it all wrong. I do not mind Avatar, it does what it does well. In fact it's a typical James Cameron movie, using all of his good old formula to make a entertaining movie that can please a wide range of people using the newest tech the best way possible. What I disagre with is the HYPE for calling it the greatest movie ever. I love...no I adore Star Wars, it's my favorite movie of all time...note the difference "my favorite movie of all time". I would never make the claim that Star Wars is the greatest movie of all time because 30 years ago it destroyed everything else at the box office. What I do not like is the blindness that surround our society now a days going with "the greatest thing ever" for everything or anyone that is at the moment popular. There is a huge difference with being popular and being great. Popular does not equal great. As I keep saying, just two years ago The Dark Knight was for 90% of people the greatest movie ever. So now just 24 months later it's already forgotten and people have moved on to something else. That is what I dislike, this going from thread to thread claiming that what they just saw a few moments ago is the greatest thing in history. That is nothing but hyped and not greatest. Hype as no staying power. In fact I respect more Titanic then Avatar for the simple fact that it as not gone through this insane period that we have now that everything that is coming out, everything that win's championship, everything that is on radio or TV is the greatest thing ever.

Who here is saying it is the greatest movie of all time?

Theres a difference between arguing why Avatar is without a doubt the most successful movie of the last decade, which is pretty much inarguable, and arguing that its teh greatest movie ever made...ive seen no one in these last several pages say that.

This:

Originally Posted by kemcha

However, in the grand scheme of things, Avatar is not a success. Gone With the Wind, E.T., The Godfather, Star Wars, Mary Poppins, Wizard of Oz ... these movies were largely successful and have become a part of the Americana of the United States. It's part of our cultural identity.

Is utter nonsense

How about looking at the big picture? Worldwide. At how this film seems to have sturck a chord with Worldwide audiences in an almost unprecedented manner.

Avatar is the definition of a global movie, its not an Americana movie. It has attracted global audiences in a way that no other film has in over a decade.

So yes, in the grand scheme of things, it IS a success.

[kemcha]

Gone With the Wind represents more about American history than anything else. If I'm not mistaken, the movie is based during the time of the American Civil War and deals with telling the story from the point of view of whites.

The movie is considered part of American culture since it deals with the American Civil War. And you're mistaken if the movie isn't well known outside of the United States. The movie is also considered a classic by movie fans the world over.

Considering that it stars such talented stars like Clark Gable, Vivien Leigh, Leslie Howard, Olivia de Havilland, and Hattie McDaniel, you would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know about this movie.

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Gone With the Wind represents more about American history than anything else. If I'm not mistaken, the movie is based during the time of the American Civil War and deals with telling the story from the point of view of whites.

The movie is considered part of American culture since it deals with the American Civil War. And you're mistaken if the movie isn't well known outside of the United States. The movie is also considered a classic by movie fans the world over.

Considering that it stars such talented stars like Clark Gable, Vivien Leigh, Leslie Howard, Olivia de Havilland, and Hattie McDaniel, you would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know about this movie.

I didnt know such a movie existed until last year, so didnt my
whole family
10 my friends in my university
Anyone I know back in home

Do you know War and Peace movie?
Its an absolute russian masterpiece, which was actually even theatrically shown in the USA and was about russian culture representation.
Do you know The Policeman Of Jandermarrier ?
This is the mastrepiece of French cinema, although comedy

You are extremely wrong that everyone knows GWTW for the same resaon I said before, USA is not all the world.

After all, if you dont accept that, you think that GWTW is more popular than say Avatar, or even Terminator 2, or even the Matrix?

[FlipperWasIrish]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemcha
Avatar does not share this same impact on our culture. 10 years from now, Avatar will just become a footnote in history because it still won't be considered a true movie classic. When you compare this movie against such other classics as Dirty Harry, Kelly's Heroes, The Karate Kid (the original), the James Bond series, Superman the Movie and many others ... Avatar just doesn't share those same Amaerica roots as these films that I've mentioned

Now this was FUNNY

[Beast]

Originally Posted by FlipperWasIrish

Now this was FUNNY

Funny ha ha or funny sad?

[FlipperWasIrish]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Gone With the Wind represents more about American history than anything else. If I'm not mistaken, the movie is based during the time of the American Civil War and deals with telling the story from the point of view of whites.

The movie is considered part of American culture since it deals with the American Civil War. And you're mistaken if the movie isn't well known outside of the United States. The movie is also considered a classic by movie fans the world over.

Considering that it stars such talented stars like Clark Gable, Vivien Leigh, Leslie Howard, Olivia de Havilland, and Hattie McDaniel, you would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know about this movie.

Commenting on a movie you have not seen is absurd. That you know some of the stars almost impressed me, until for the fun of it I checked a very iffy source (ie: Wiki) and sure enough, it looks like "copy & paste"....LOL.

[kemcha]

That's you and you're how old? 18? I'm 43 years old and I remember back during the 90's when Hollywood was making such a big deal about taking the original film and adding a colorization process to the original film. Matter of fact, it was reported in every radiom, television and print ad at the time.

Even during my youth, I knew about the movie. It was an important part of my public education since learning about the civil war also dealt with movies that were produced that took place during the time of the American Revolutionary War and The Civil War. Since it was a part of our culture and a part of our history, learning about this movie was an important part of our education.

These days, youongsters don't know much about American cinema and its history and that's a crying shame. It's a part of our culture and ignoring it and not educating yourself on it is a shame because it's part of every American's cultural heritage.

[FlipperWasIrish]

Originally Posted by Beast

Funny ha ha or funny sad?

BOTH!!!

[Marcus Wright]

Originally Posted by kemcha

That's you and you're how old? 18? I'm 43 years old and I remember back during the 90's when Hollywood was making such a big deal about taking the original film and adding a colorization process to the original film. Matter of fact, it was reported in every radiom, television and print ad at the time.

Even during my youth, I knew about the movie. It was an important part of my public education since learning about the civil war also dealt with movies that were produced that took place during the time of the American Revolutionary War and The Civil War. Since it was a part of our culture and a part of our history, learning about this movie was an important part of our education.

These days, youongsters don't know much about American cinema and its history and that's a crying shame. It's a part of our culture and ignoring it and not educating yourself on it is a shame because it's part of every American's cultural heritage.

Did anyone ever say anything bad or like that for GWTW.
I think its you that make a mistake by not understanding your own claim by saying its a bad movie to "younger" culture favorites, like Avatar.

I have and always will respect classics, and some of them will be my favorites.
But most of them are not as good for me as T2, Matrix, or Avatar.

All I was claiming was that maybe GWTW > Avatar in terms of whatever you want to but
Avatar > GWTW for the world as a whole from each and every point.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by kemcha

That's you and you're how old? 18? I'm 43 years old and I remember back during the 90's when Hollywood was making such a big deal about taking the original film and adding a colorization process to the original film. Matter of fact, it was reported in every radiom, television and print ad at the time.

Well, I'm in my mid-30's and I still don't agree with your point.

Even during my youth, I knew about the movie. It was an important part of my public education since learning about the civil war also dealt with movies that were produced that took place during the time of the American Revolutionary War and The Civil War. Since it was a part of our culture and a part of our history, learning about this movie was an important part of our education.

No. It's just a movie. Just like any other movie. And using it as an educational film about the Civil War would be just as flawed and wrong as using Birth of a Nation or any other film that presents a skewed glamorized version of the events. It's just a movie, not a teaching tool. It would be like using Jurassic Park to educate about Dinosaurs.

These days, youongsters don't know much about American cinema and its history and that's a crying shame. It's a part of our culture and ignoring it and not educating yourself on it is a shame because it's part of every American's cultural heritage.

Sorry, but even in your day most youngsters didn't care either.

And it's not a crying shame. It's just a fact of life. Not everyone considers cinema to be the greatest thing that mankind or America has ever offered up to the world. It has nothing to do with education, unless you're planning to become a film scholer or even a film maker. It's certainly not required to have an opinion on movies.

[garyrc]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

In this case, lets generalize the question a little bit more.
You think that American classics are as good know in Europe and Asia as are their respective classics?

No, I think a greater number of people in Europe and Asia know their own classics than know about GWTW -- but I think they know about GWTW to about the degree we know about The Seventh Seal, and the like.

Originally Posted by Marcus Wright

Do you know War and Peace movie?
Its an absolute russian masterpiece, which was actually even theatrically shown in the USA and was about russian culture representation.

If you are referring to the Russian version of War and Peace that was made in the 1960's, I absolutely know it. My friends and I went to see Part I and Part II two nights in a row (it took two nights) at the Bridge Theater in San Francisco, then we devoted two more nights to it when it came to the Grand Lake in Oakland. My eyes teared up at the line "The deep sky in my soul." I'd love to get it on Blu-ray if they make the disk from the Russian 70 mm original.

Originally Posted by kemcha

That's you and you're how old? 18? I'm 43 years old and I remember back during the 90's when Hollywood was making such a big deal about taking the original film and adding a colorization process to the original film. Matter of fact, it was reported in every radiom, television and print ad at the time.
--

There was no colorization process used on GWTW "Colorization" by that name was used on films that were originally in Black & White. GWTW was in Technicolor from the beginning, and most prints were gorgeous. The best ones were in the original dye transfer Technicolor, a color technique so good that scientists use a similar process to produce accurate pictures of plants, animals, minerals, etc.

[kemcha]

Marcus, actually, someone blasted these films, which are our cultural treasures, as not being great cinema. These are classic films and Hollywood doesn't make great films like these anymore.

I was offended because someone posted that films like Gone With the Wind, The Godfather, It's a Wonderful Life and many other great classics aren't great cinema. Hollywood just doesn't make movies like that anymore where attention is paid more to the screenplay instead of the special effects of the computer graphics.

Movies produced in these days just don't have that long-standing appeal that Hollywood's earlier films still have. Even Westen films like Mclintock, True Grit, The Searchers, The Shootist have more thought out screenplays than Avatar does. The fact is that Avatar represents everything that is wrong in Hollywood.

The industry is more concerned with pumping out movies that concentrate on special effects or CGI than they are with the screenplay for that movie. Just look at such films as Avatar, 2012, Independence Day. When the bulk of the budget for your movie is designated for special effects rather than for the story itself, then it's a systematic problem with what's wrong in Hollywood.

gary, you're right. I thought GWTW was originally made in Black and White. The colorization process or the color print was touched up in the 90's and I remember a lot of criticism over anyone restoring the film in this way.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Marcus, actually, someone blasted these films, which are our cultural treasures, as not being great cinema. These are classic films and Hollywood doesn't make great films like these anymore.

I was offended because someone posted that films like Gone With the Wind, The Godfather, It's a Wonderful Life and many other great classics aren't great cinema. Hollywood just doesn't make movies like that anymore where attention is paid more to the screenplay instead of the special effects of the computer graphics.

Movies produced in these days just don't have that long-standing appeal that Hollywood's earlier films still have. Even Westen films like Mclintock, True Grit, The Searchers, The Shootist have more thought out screenplays than Avatar does. The fact is that Avatar represents everything that is wrong in Hollywood.

The industry is more concerned with pumping out movies that concentrate on special effects or CGI than they are with the screenplay for that movie. Just look at such films as Avatar, 2012, Independence Day. When the bulk of the budget for your movie is designated for special effects rather than for the story itself, then it's a systematic problem with what's wrong in Hollywood.

That is your opinion and not fact. I personally think films like UP for example are just as good as any of the classic films you mentioned. Great cinema is subjective and everyone has the right to consider any of the films you mentioned as not bieng great cinema.

[Beta Man]

We're discussing GWTW here??? Sweet!

I just wanted to make the point, that from my experience.... Europeans in particular are right on top of American culture.... and are very aware of the existence of GWTW.....

We're not comparing some random film from the 80's that didn't do well at the box office in the U.S. to some little known film from the 80's released in Eritrea........ If you rattled off the AFI top 100 list to a group in Europe, I'm willing to bet the percentage that they have seen, isn't much behind the percentage from a random U.S. sample group.....


For Avatar....
I also don't think you can trivialize any movie that made this much money by saying it's going to be a foot-note in 10 years........ That's a LOT of money.... chances are, they'll still be churning out sequels for 5 years......

[kemcha]

That is just not my opinion. There are a large number of movie fans and film historians who think this as well. But, one flaw in everyone's thinking is that everyone is equating great cinema with classic films and the two are mutually exclusive. While films can be both, there are certain criteria that each must meet.

While some films can be better because they boast superior acting and/or superior screenwriting, most often fail to meet this high point.

Movies like Gone With the Wind, The Godfather, Scarface, Wizard of Oz have lasted as long as they have because they represent some of the finest treasures that our country has ever offered the world of entertainment.

Great movies are great cinema not because they are old or have lasted through the years but also because of what they represent. Gone With the Wind is one of those great treasures because it reflects a time in the history of our country when life was much simpler, much easier to get along with. Hollywood just doesn't make movies like that anymore. Especially in the age where computer graphics seem to dominate the movie industry and studios are addicted to computer graphics and 3D technology.

These "storytelling" effects are designed to help the movie but too often, Hollywood has adopted a "cut and paste" mentality by using that technology in every film. The 3D technology is proof of that.

Back during the 1930's and probably through to the late 1970's, we have the best era of ciema when movies were produced and greater attention was paid to the "story" and the dialogue. These days, too much attention is granted to computer graphics and it detracts from the movie itself.

Movies like Gone With the Wind have enjoyed repeated re-releases at the theater, over such a long period of time. With movies like Avatar, such special treatment will never be granted Avatar because it's not even in the same ballpark as GWtW. Sure, it brought in a ton of money for the studio. But, Avatar's success will slowly fade into the background, as fast as it hit theaters. This one re-release is just some fancy pomp by the studio to squeeze a little more money from a thetrical re-release, nothing more. In the end, something better will come along that has a better story without all fo the usual fireworks that come with computer generated graphics.

[kemcha]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

We're discussing GWTW here??? Sweet!

I just wanted to make the point, that from my experience.... Europeans in particular are right on top of American culture.... and are very aware of the existence of GWTW.....

We're not comparing some random film from the 80's that didn't do well at the box office in the U.S. to some little known film from the 80's released in Eritrea........ If you rattled off the AFI top 100 list to a group in Europe, I'm willing to bet the percentage that they have seen, isn't much behind the percentage from a random U.S. sample group.....

Beta Man, thank god someone else responded to this argument. You hit my point exactly on the nose. The whole issue is that everyone is trying to compare the two movies and you're right. This isn't some random movie from the 80's or 90's. This is a classic American cultural icon of Hollywood moviemaking we're talking about here, in regards to Gone With the Wind. Avatar is just one of those CGI movies that will retain some context, as being one of the most expensive movies ever made.

There's just no way you can compare Gone With the Wind to Avatar. That's like trying to compare the comic books of Action Comics #1 to Star Wars #1. There is no comparison and it's unfair to lop the top in the same category.

I never said that Avatar was a bad film, I'm sure that it's a good movie. I'm just sick of everyone trying to make Avatar sound like its the be-all and end-all of Hollywood moviemaking.