New unfinished basement - $30K fair or no?

[ShootingBlanks]

First off, Sentinel - THANK YOU! What a great and informative post! Although I only understood a small fraction of it (), I plan on passing it over to my audio friend as well as my construction friend because I figure that (between the two of them) the whole thing will make sense!

Originally Posted by sentinel41

Ideally you want a room that meets the golden ratio design.

What is that? I assume it's some x:x:x ratio of w:d:h that a room should have?

Originally Posted by sentinel41

Figure out which of the 3 lengths will be the limiting one

If I'm understanding you properly then I'd guess my ceiling would be my limiting length, right? Since I can't alter the 9' ceiling height, but I have full control over the walls?

Originally Posted by sentinel41

I can do a more detailed layout if you care, based on the room dimensions.

I actually may take you up on that, but not just yet. Around the end of January the house will really start to "take its shape". Since I'll have full access to it during the build process, that's when I'm going to go in and get all the real official measurements on the basement (including the exact position of the stairs, pillars, windows, and plumbing). The diagram I posted above is my estimation based on the overall dimensions of the first-floor plan that I received (you can see the floor plan here - click the Interactive Floor Plan tab about midway down the page) and also my foggy memory of where the stairs were and the plumbing was. When I get a real solid accurate set of measurements, I'll probably write back again...

One other thing that I was concerned about (but that you didn't bring up, so maybe it really isn't a concern) is the bar area I had in my diagram. Is that an okay idea? Or is "rattling of bottles" (and anything else I may have not thought of) an issue?

Once again, GREAT post - and thanks again for taking the time!!!

[kareface]

NP, I can't tell you how much it frustrates me to see people butcher a good room.

The Golden Ratio method allows you to set your room up so the speakers should are placed to allow the three nodes progression or separate them from one another in Golden Ratio. It will eliminate any unison or near unison resonance in the nodes in the room. The result will be less dips and peaks in the FR without the need for equalization. Equalization is never as good as proper acoustical correction. There is no way around it. Speakers that use equalization (most subs do to extend their lows) will not sound as clear as speakers that can achieve the same though natural acoustics. The same applies to rooms, correcting a room using audyssey or some other EQ will not sound as nice as correcting the acoustics to the highest degree reasonable (i.e. within room dimensions and budget) then using equalization to correct. In this case the ratio links all 3 dimensions, so we must figure out which of them is the A) hardest to change and B) the first of the 3 that can't scale up any further because of the limited room size. Lowering the ceiling wouldn't be hard, but I don't think it'll be necessary because I think it'll be the limiting length. I'll wait till you get exact measurements before going any further.

I would also like to note, I am not aware of any local limitations you might have on building something like this. In basements there are quiet frequently other things that have to be done, I can only give you the details related to proper dampening. Other things to think about, the positioning of the AV equipment and the noise generated by it. If you build a cabinet into the wall, make is very deep and wide but leave the opening just large enough to install the equipment then line the walls with foam you can deaden a great deal of the noise they produce while keeping them in the same room. Adding a glass door can add to this, but be careful if you do to make sure you have a vent to allow the heat to escape. I would wire each of the corners of the room for a sub (if you plan to use one, which I would). I always recommend 2 subs when ever possible, as it evens out the response. The ideal listining position is where the front 3 speakers are all the same distance from you and the front left and right form a equilateral triangle. Based on the room size you want your fronts to be positioned a specific distance from the walls, but I'll again wait for more exact measurements (including the width of the new walls that will be put up) before worrying about that. You have a lot more flexibility with the surrounds, so don't worry about them as much.

Once that's all done, then comes the calibrating. Testing sub positions, phase/delay variants, gain/sensitivity settings, setting up the bass traps, testing for out of phase bounces, testing FR & spectral decay/reverb at listing position, setting up panels, setting levels, making a few small changes if needed to improve the natural acoustics, then parametric and AVR equalization to correct any remaining audible room modes. You should figure out if you like celerity vs. warmth. We can warm up the room a little by using fewer panels and correcting with diffraction. If you go to a local speaker store you can demo warmer speakers vs. clearer speakers. We can make the room very transparent, but the down side is if you listen to something that wasn't recorded well, you'll hear every mistake. Where warmer speakers/rooms adds a little distortion, but it's pleasant distortion (think tube amps) which betrays the source a little, but give more room for poorly recorded sources. Don't choose based on principle, actually go listen. It doesn't matter which route you take, both are good have have ups and downs, but we want to take the route that pleases your ears the most. Also, once you get closer to the final planning, I can offer tips on where to buy and how to save a few $$'s. Maybe call me around that time because explaining too much detail in a way that'll be clear enough will take a while and I'm getting really long winded just going over the steps briskly.

[ShootingBlanks]

Originally Posted by sentinel41

Maybe call me around that time because explaining too much detail in a way that'll be clear enough will take a while and I'm getting really long winded just going over the steps briskly.

Very good! I'll just temporarily put this thread on hold until early next year - then I'll come back with specifics. Thanks again, and I'll be in touch!

[squirrel101]

Haven't been on the site in a while and run across your post, I did my entire theater for under 30k i believe, some things i saved on were my screen, i used Seymour acoustically transparent material and built the framing, i did have the room constructed and then finished all the decorating/design myself, aside from having the carpet on the floor layed/installed, ran across close-out pricing on all my drapery @ bedBathAnd Beyond...and since i didn't have a friend with your audio acces i used ebay stores, and internet stores for the seating..just my 2cents worth, good luck, measure plan and then measure again

[ShootingBlanks]

NEW UPDATE!

Hello, everyone. Our house is coming along nicely (pic below). We close on April 30th. I just went in yesterday and got measurements on all the basement stuff. Based on where they put the staircase and furnace, it's a bit more limiting than I thought (and than what I posted in my original post).

Could you guys take a look at the "official" layout below that I made, and let me know what you think my best bet would be? Based on the drawing, it'd obviously either be on the right or on the bottom. The reason I think the right side may be bad is because you can see (near the bottom-right) that the circuit breaker is on that wall.

But let me know what you think:
CLICK HERE FOR THE NEW OFFICIAL BASEMENT LAYOUT

Where would you put the screen/seating/projector, etc? I got 9-foot ceilings. What would you do with the rest of the space?

Here's a pic of the new place too!:

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

NEW UPDATE!

Hello, everyone. Our house is coming along nicely (pic below). We close on April 30th. I just went in yesterday and got measurements on all the basement stuff. Based on where they put the staircase and furnace, it's a bit more limiting than I thought (and than what I posted in my original post).

Could you guys take a look at the "official" layout below that I made, and let me know what you think my best bet would be? Based on the drawing, it'd obviously either be on the right or on the bottom. The reason I think the right side may be bad is because you can see (near the bottom-right) that the circuit breaker is on that wall.

But let me know what you think:
CLICK HERE FOR THE NEW OFFICIAL BASEMENT LAYOUT

Where would you put the screen/seating/projector, etc? I got 9-foot ceilings. What would you do with the rest of the space?

Here's a pic of the new place too!:

I'd put the projector screen on the 15' 9" wall where the furnace is. All equipment could be built-in under the stairs. You are a lucky guy having that "virgin" territory to work with.

Good luck. Looking forward to see your progress!

[ShootingBlanks]

Originally Posted by Hammie

I'd put the projector screen on the 15' 9" wall where the furnace is.

Would that room size (roughly 25 x 15) be big enough to adequately accommodate a 10-ft (or larger) screen as well as two rows of seats (back row up on a riser)?

Originally Posted by Hammie

Good luck. Looking forward to see your progress!

Thanks! Me too!

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

Would that room size (roughly 25 x 15) be big enough to adequately accommodate a 10-ft (or larger) screen as well as two rows of seats (back row up on a riser)?

I mean, it's the largest open space on the floorplan... but yes I would think so. You could easily fit two rows of seats on the opposite end of the room, no?

[ShootingBlanks]

Cool - here's what I'm thinking, then. The only thing I'm not sure about is what to do about the screen in front of the circuit breaker. If I ever need to get to the breaker, how will I access it? Some sort of removable/in-ceiling screen? Don't those get pretty costly, though?

-- Click Here for Home Theater Build - v.1 --

Is that doable? Any issues/problems? Thanks again for the input!

[TKNice]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

Cool - here's what I'm thinking, then. The only thing I'm not sure about is what to do about the screen in front of the circuit breaker. If I ever need to get to the breaker, how will I access it? Some sort of removable/in-ceiling screen? Don't those get pretty costly, though?

-- Click Here for Home Theater Build - v.1 --

Is that doable? Any issues/problems? Thanks again for the input!

Is that the service panel in the lower right? It looks like you have a similar layout to mine...maybe a little larger where the theater will go. I ended up putting up a wall that continued into an unfinished storage area to hide the circuit breaker. This gave me about 4ft on the panel side and around 21' in the theater.

If you don't want to do this, I'm sure you can come up with some clever way to hide the panel if it ends up in the theater.

[ShootingBlanks]

Originally Posted by TKNice

It looks like you have a similar layout to mine...

I just looked at your pics, TKNice, and I love it! Looks great!!! What was the room dimensions? It looks like a great use of space. Did you do all the work yourself? I love the red panels on the side wall too - where did you get those?

[jjmbxkb]

Another idea is to do an AT screen, which requires at least 3 or 4 feet for speakers to breathe, while givingin access to the circuit breaker. But it may drive up the cost, depending on how you do it. Are you still thinking about $30K?

You could also think about electric drop down screens, but they are not as nice an option as fixed frame for a dedicated space, in my opinion.

[ShootingBlanks]

Originally Posted by jjmbxkb

Are you still thinking about $30K?

Yeah - I'd still like to stick to under $30k. But that's just for the theater-room section of the basement (not the rest in the diagram like the bathroom and the bar area and the rest of the drywall/carpet/etc throughout).

When you say the AT drives up cost, how much? And is that just because that type of screen is more expensive, or is there other reasons that factor into the cost increase? If I did go the AT route, I'd have room for a bigger screen too, right? Or would that not be advised based on the room size? How big would you go?

Thanks!

[jjmbxkb]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

Yeah - I'd still like to stick to under $30k. But that's just for the theater-room section of the basement (not the rest in the diagram like the bathroom and the bar area and the rest of the drywall/carpet/etc throughout).

Wow, if that's the case, you should have plenty.

When you say the AT drives up cost, how much? And is that just because that type of screen is more expensive, or is there other reasons that factor into the cost increase?

Not sure by how much. But I would guess both the fabric and the fact that you got to build a false wall.

If I did go the AT route, I'd have room for a bigger screen too, right? Or would that not be advised based on the room size? How big would you go?
Thanks!

Not sure why you think you will have room for a bigger screen. You will have 4 feet less room length for seating. So I would say no. I prefer sitting farther than the "norm" of 1.5 times screen width. I am 15' from a 9' wide scope screen.

[Hammie]

I would put the screen on the opposite side of the electrical panel.

Build a wall from the furnace room all the way to the back wall (with the electrical panel). Have a door in the back corner. Have a platform riser for one row of seats with a second row on the same floor plane as your front soundstage.

What size room screen were you hoping to get? If you do an AT screen, you will be able to use the entire 15' 9" for the screen.

Is the $30K budget for just construction or electronics and speakers, too?

[TKNice]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

I just looked at your pics, TKNice, and I love it! Looks great!!! What was the room dimensions? It looks like a great use of space. Did you do all the work yourself? I love the red panels on the side wall too - where did you get those?

Thanks dude! Yeah, I did most of the work myself or with the help of family and friends. My Dad made panels similar to these in his theater and showed me how to make them.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pics of us making the panels, but they were pretty easy to do. After taking measurements of how much room I wanted on all sides and determining how large each panel would be, we cut and stained all of the molding pieces.

Next, we placed all of the pieces face down and used two or three staples to join the pieces together. You have to be a little careful here because its not as sturdy as using an angle bracket or something like that, but at least I'd be sure it would sit flush on the wall. This may not be an issue for you if they are mostly seen from straight on.

Once the frame was assembled, we put it up on the wall and used a small drill bit to drill each anchor point through the molding into the wall. This also marks the spot where each drywall anchor goes. We decided to anchor the middle of each scalloped piece and then one in the middle of both long sides. The anchors we used were really nice. They were half plastic and metal and had little spikes on the sides that really bit into the drywall.

After this, we figured out which way the material should run and since I didn't have a pattern on mine it was much easier. We pulled it taught and stapled the fabric every two inches or so all the way around.

IMPORTANT: Find the little holes you made earlier (where each screw will go) and be sure to cut out a small piece of fabric around the hole. Otherwise the fabric will catch on the drill bit and start to spin and bunch up when you go to mount it.

With the panels basically ready to go, the last thing to do is drill a small countersink in each of the small holes so the screw heads can be filled. Be careful here because the moulding can crack if you're not easy with it. Consider putting a small piece of tape around the drill bit to mark your depth.

Next, screw each panel to the wall and fill the screw holes with wood filler. I first used the stain thinking it would hide the wood filler but ultimately ended up using a combination of black and brown sharpie markers and you can't see a thing.

I think that's it. Overall a very easy project and upgrade to the theater.

Oh yeah, here is a link to the material I bought. I first ordered this sample pack to see what color would work. Burgandy is what I ended up with.

Hope this helps!

[TKNice]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

What was the room dimensions?

Forgot to answer this...

It's 12.4' x 21' with a 8' ceiling height.

[ShootingBlanks]

Originally Posted by Hammie

Is the $30K budget for just construction or electronics and speakers, too?

For equipment too - yes. But I have one friend who does professional home audio installs and another friend who does professional home construction, so I should cut down on labor costs with their help.

Originally Posted by TKNice

I don't have any pics of us making the panels, but they were pretty easy to do.

Thanks for the tips! I think I'll have a go at that maybe.

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by ShootingBlanks

For equipment too - yes. But I have one friend who does professional home audio installs and another friend who does professional home construction, so I should cut down on labor costs with their help.



Thanks for the tips! I think I'll have a go at that maybe.

Do you have your equipment already picked out?

[ShootingBlanks]

Originally Posted by Hammie

Do you have your equipment already picked out?

Not at all, no. I think somewhere earlier on in this thread I asked if I should build first and then buy the equipment, or buy the equipment and then build. I believe it was the consensus to get the equipment first and then build around it...

...Although maybe I'm mistaken there because that seems to defy logic. I mean, I could feasibly be working on this over the course of a year (easily), and by then whatever I'd bought could be way out of date (or, I could've bought the same stuff for way less since it would be a year out of date).

What's your opinion?