Why is it the Pioneer BDP-23fd gets no love, but the Oppo and PS3 get mad RESPECT!

[SeanMF]

Originally Posted by Blove23

I will say the only down fall with the BDP-23fd is the BD-live and I will never use that and its not important to me! LOL

It has bd-live and might slow up the loading of certain movies...the first time. This is common though even on the ps3. I don't like the fact the 23fd isn't wireless for bdlive. You could make it that way with an adaptor but I don't use bd-live so it isn't a concern with me.

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by EWL5

The Oppo BDP-83 actually uses two different sets of DAC's (Cirrus CS4398 for two-channel and Cirrus CS4382A for multi-channel analog output). These have been used in high end audio gear. Only problem is that DAC's don't tell the whole story. The path and power supply to those DAC's are not exactly high end. The Oppo could use some upsampling capability (like Denon's Advanced AL24) but doesn't have it.

Among my gear, the Oppo's CD playback is merely "ok."

That is a very fair and honest assessment, I thank you for not just saying its the best...period.

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by EWL5

IMHO, the PS3 should no longer be considered for BD player purchase unless you like to game on the side, don't care about DVD upconversion, or don't want the Oppo.

Agreed

[Astrakan]

What really pushes the Oppo above the competition in my book is the region free capabilities. Just under 13% of my DVD collection is not region 1 and I don't foresee that purchasing pattern to change just cause I now buy Blu-rays, so to me having a region-free Blu-ray player was of utmost importance.

Naturally I also value PQ and AQ, and had the Oppo lacked in these areas I would've had to look elsehwere. But since it stacks up well against anything else out there, it was an easy decision for me. Load times is just icing, and had no bearing on my decision.

Now, maybe the 23fd has a region mod out now, but when I was shopping around this summer it definitely did not.

KM

[Halcro 1]

[QUOTE=EWL5;2506538]I tried to be brand loyal but Pioneer hasn't ever made a BD player worthy of their plasma and AVR heritage. Until recently, they priced themselves out of the mass market ... Ummmm I think a Kuro is priced out of the mass market... LOL

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Halcro 1

Ummmm I think a Kuro is priced out of the mass market... LOL

You took my sentence out of context. Here it is again:

Originally Posted by EWL5

I tried to be brand loyal but Pioneer hasn't ever made a BD player worthy of their plasma and AVR heritage. Until recently, they priced themselves out of the mass market and now their optical division is paying the price. Pioneer inhabited that niche of home theater reserved for the "enthusiast." Not too cheap to be taken lightly but not too expensive to be considered high end. Unfortunately, they were not able to build that cult following that their Kuros got and have now conceded that enthusiast spot to Oppo. It was not enough that they couldn't get good word of mouth for their BD players but they actually reversed with broken promises and long delays concerning their firmware (forums everywhere were unkind to the 05/51 players). Earlier efforts like the 94 and 95 players were ridiculed for being unnecessarily pricey and video standards not in line with what you paid. Here's hoping their AVR division fares much better.

The bolded portion is only meant to describe their optical division (specifically BD players). This was a classic case of all talk but no walk (something Oppo has been able to back up...and then some).

A similar thing happened to their plasma division but much worse as often times, their MSRP were not even in the same ballpark as others. If memory serves, my Elite 1130 MSRP'd for $5500 back in 2006.

[thevig]

My use of a player will be strictly for DVD's and it will be used with a Pio Elite Receiver. The biggest thing for me is picture quality. Given the recent price reductions for the 23fD, now its over a $100 less than Oppo, is there that big of a difference a picture quality between Oppo and the 23fd.

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by thevig

My use of a player will be strictly for DVD's and it will be used with a Pio Elite Receiver. The biggest thing for me is picture quality. Given the recent price reductions for the 23fD, now its over a $100 less than Oppo, is there that big of a difference a picture quality between Oppo and the 23fd.

I can not speak for the Oppo because I have never seen one, nor can I speak on it. The Pioneer BDP-23fd has excellent PQ and AQ. The one nice thing about the Pioneer BDP-23fd is the synergy that it has with other Pioneer equipment.

You could also try both out and return the one you do not like...

[SeanMF]

Originally Posted by Blove23

I can not speak for the Oppo because I have never seen one, nor can I speak on it. The Pioneer BDP-23fd has excellent PQ and AQ. The one nice thing about the Pioneer BDP-23fd is the synergy that it has with other Pioneer equipment.

You could also try both out and return the one you do not like...

+1. The synergy factor with pioneer equipment is nice...pqls even. Idk how the pq can be better with the oppo...can only be a very slight improvement if you can notice a difference. Especially not enough to justify the price difference. If DVD-a and sacd are a big deal then get the oppo. If not I'd go with the 23fd...especially if you have other pioneer gear.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by seanfarley2

+1. The synergy factor with pioneer equipment is nice...pqls even. Idk how the pq can be better with the oppo...can only be a very slight improvement if you can notice a difference. Especially not enough to justify the price difference. If DVD-a and sacd are a big deal then get the oppo. If not I'd go with the 23fd...especially if you have other pioneer gear.

PQLS is a nice feature but only if you are sensitive to jitter. I've tested PCM over HDMI from the Denon 3800, Oppo BDP83, and PS3 60gb to a Pioneer 84 AVR with no audio deterioration due to jitter. If you are bitstreaming to a PQLS-enabled AVR, then jitter is a non-issue anyway. The irony of it all is now that the PQLS technology has trickled down to HDMI for both stereo and multichannel (I have it using iLink over a Pioneer DV59AVi), the people with the modern devices to use it most likely don't even need it. PQLS over HDMI then becomes more of a gimmick than anything else.

[SeanMF]

Originally Posted by EWL5

PQLS is a nice feature but only if you are sensitive to jitter. I've tested PCM over HDMI from the Denon 3800, Oppo BDP83, and PS3 60gb to a Pioneer 84 AVR with no audio deterioration due to jitter. If you are bitstreaming to a PQLS-enabled AVR, then jitter is a non-issue anyway. The irony of it all is now that the PQLS technology has trickled down to HDMI for both stereo and multichannel (I have it using iLink over a Pioneer DV59AVi), the people with the modern devices to use it most likely don't even need it. PQLS over HDMI then becomes more of a gimmick than anything else.

Agree. A lot of stuff is gimicky. Companies need to differ themselves from others. Pqls is a nice feature but isn't relevent in my setup.

[HDTV1080P]

When and if Pioneer starts making better BLU-RAY players with features that are found on the OPPO BDP-83 and Panasonic DMP-BD80 I would be interested in Pioneer again (Pioneer A/V receivers and plasma screens are the best. I hope their future BLU-RAY players would improve). It would be ideal if Pioneer BLU-RAY players in the future all offered 1080P/24 DVD upconversion for DVD's which the OPPO and current Panasonic models already do. Pioneer BLU-RAY players just do 1080p/60 upconversion for DVD according to all the reviews I have read. Also the Pioneer BLU-RAY players have slow load times and navigation. I would also like to see Pioneer develop one high-end BLU-RAY player that has SACD and DVD-Audio playback capability.

The Pioneer BLU-RAY players have excellent video processors and every Pioneer BLU-RAY player every made including first generation models output 1080p/24 for BLU-RAY discs. I was tempted to purchase the BDP-09FD but ended up with the OPPO BDP-83 instead. The Pioneer BDP-09FD is awesome player with 48-bit Deep color support . The 4GB of built in memory for BD-LIVE is ideal accept for the fact external memory can not be added in the future to that model. The two HDMI outputs are a nice feature. The build quality of the BDP-09FD is the best of the best.

Pioneer could make near perfect #1 BLU-RAY players if they just added the following features to new models in the future:


1. Faster load times and navigation to match or beat the fastest players on the market. Having a 1GB networking jack like the PS3 would also be ideal.

2. Reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD playback so that 1080p/24 upconversion can be done just like the OPPO and Panasonic.

3. DVD-audio and Super Audio CD support for some higher-end models.

[ryan4blu]

so which one is a better player?? i was considering on buying the pioneer elite 23 model until i ready this thread. now it seems the oppo is a kick a$$ player and nothing competes to it??

any thoughts?

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

so which one is a better player?? i was considering on buying the pioneer elite 23 model until i ready this thread. now it seems the oppo is a kick a$$ player and nothing competes to it??

any thoughts?

It just depends on how you use your player!

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by Blove23

It just depends on how you use your player!

just watch blu's, thats it. just love watching movies and i wouldnt mind the best performing unit possible.

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

When and if Pioneer starts making better BLU-RAY players with features that are found on the OPPO BDP-83 and Panasonic DMP-BD80 I would be interested in Pioneer again (Pioneer A/V receivers and plasma screens are the best. I hope their future BLU-RAY players would improve). It would be ideal if Pioneer BLU-RAY players in the future all offered 1080P/24 DVD upconversion for DVD's which the OPPO and current Panasonic models already do. Pioneer BLU-RAY players just do 1080p/60 upconversion for DVD according to all the reviews I have read. Also the Pioneer BLU-RAY players have slow load times and navigation. I would also like to see Pioneer develop one high-end BLU-RAY player that has SACD and DVD-Audio playback capability.

The Pioneer BLU-RAY players have excellent video processors and every Pioneer BLU-RAY player every made including first generation models output 1080p/24 for BLU-RAY discs. I was tempted to purchase the BDP-09FD but ended up with the OPPO BDP-83 instead. The Pioneer BDP-09FD is awesome player with 48-bit Deep color support . The 4GB of built in memory for BD-LIVE is ideal accept for the fact external memory can not be added in the future to that model. The two HDMI outputs are a nice feature. The build quality of the BDP-09FD is the best of the best.

Pioneer could make near perfect #1 BLU-RAY players if they just added the following features to new models in the future:


1. Faster load times and navigation to match or beat the fastest players on the market. Having a 1GB networking jack like the PS3 would also be ideal.

2. Reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD playback so that 1080p/24 upconversion can be done just like the OPPO and Panasonic.

3. DVD-audio and Super Audio CD support for some higher-end models.

Your blu-ray discs are the only ones that do 1080p/ 24 frames depending on the movie!

[SeanMF]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

so which one is a better player?? i was considering on buying the pioneer elite 23 model until i ready this thread. now it seems the oppo is a kick a$$ player and nothing competes to it??

any thoughts?

Read my posts...depends on if you want to spend the extra money on the oppo and going to use it for sacd or dvd-a

[rubystone356]

the panasonic 60 and 80 can do 24p on dvds as well as with bluray titles.

Jacob

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Blove23

Your blu-ray discs are the only ones that do 1080p/ 24 frames depending on the movie!

Yes DVD's are 480i but some BLU-RAY players can upconvert to 1080p/24 by doing a reverse 3:2 pulldown for 480i DVD's. Upconvert is not as good as native 1080p/24 found on most BLU-RAY movie discs.

[ryan4blu]

so than which is better for mostly blu ray movie watching??

oppo 83

pioneer elite 23

panny bd80

those seem to be the top 3 choices??