HD DVD Advantages?

[buckshot]

Originally Posted by sparksj

An you don't think Sony takes losses on its PS3 and sub $400 players???

the ps3 and xbox and probably the wii take losses for every console sold. that's the nature of the gaming beast. but sony taking a loss on the s300 (i assume that's what you're stomping your feet about)? I would say they are breaking even more than likely. that's why blu ray has so many CE companies supporting them, they are making a profit. that's why blu ray players cost more. if all the companies wanted to make hd dvd players they'd need to cut their m.s.r.p.s to compete with the sub $200 monster that is the various 1080i tosh players. I know it must be hard to understand but if there's no money to be made, the only companies who will make hd dvd players are the ones who are pot committed (oooohh a poker term). that would be toshiba and m$. sure theres some little chinese company no one has ever heard of before, venturer, and subsidiaries of tosh making players. but that's it.

and if price matters so much, how does that hd dvd player look on you ilo, oleva, or sylvania hdtv?

I have no problem with people who bought hd dvd for its 2 intial advantages. internet connectivity and strict player specs. but those are moot points now. if those were the reasons you bought it, then get blu ray now as it is the superior technology and has the specs hd once had. there is no advantage to hd dvd anymore. or you just throw a tantrum and hold your breathe until the adults pay attention or you pass out. cheers.

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by Papi4baby

Tell me if Para was not bought out where do you think that 2% would have been

P.S. Bill Gates told me to remind you to clean your knees, and to make sure to get the shirt dry clean.

P.S.S. I know im going to get in trouble for the above, i just hope i dont get ban.

You're right. If Para was not bought out, where would they be? But they were. So what's your point. Put down the Sony cool aid and step away from teh table. Better yet, I challange you to give me one good reason why BR disk is better today. (and don't start with the , "they're future proof" thing, because I already agree with you there). Give me just one real world reason...

[oldmike]

and once more you ignore the point
there is only room for one HD format and if we dont get one soon then we all lose
Down loads are CRAP and that is what we will be stuck with

[pflieger]

Originally Posted by mugen302005

WTF!? This is the first time I saw that [I]boiling dvds and hddvds [I]thing. Talking about stupidity has a new meaning for me now. Just the same it's still hilarious; they're even proud of that!

I own both formats and if you had read anything at all on the subject, you would know that is way over blown, I've gotten discs on both formats then to clean them (filthy BlockBuster and Netflix discs rentals) I've had to rise under warm water and dry, and I've rented several combo discs and have never had even one problem, I do think I've read that some of the early production runs of the HD DVD combo discs had a few problems but were quickly fixed.

I support Blu-Ray and I love some of the movies that you can get only on Blu-Ray like Mel Gibson's Apocalypse and I hate to say it Starship Troopers (guilty pleasure, sorry).

I am looking forward to the firmware update for my PS3 so I can enjoy some of the features coming out soon on the new discs also (does anyone know exactly when that will happen?)

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by buckshot

the ps3 and xbox and probably the wii take losses for every console sold. that's the nature of the gaming beast. but sony taking a loss on the s300 (i assume that's what you're stomping your feet about)? I would say they are breaking even more than likely. that's why blu ray has so many CE companies supporting them, they are making a profit. that's why blu ray players cost more. if all the companies wanted to make hd dvd players they'd need to cut their m.s.r.p.s to compete with the sub $200 monster that is the various 1080i tosh players. I know it must be hard to understand but if there's no money to be made, the only companies who will make hd dvd players are the ones who are pot committed (oooohh a poker term). that would be toshiba and m$. sure theres some little chinese company no one has ever heard of before, venturer, and subsidiaries of tosh making players. but that's it.

and if price matters so much, how does that hd dvd player look on you ilo, oleva, or sylvania hdtv?

I have no problem with people who bought hd dvd for its 2 intial advantages. internet connectivity and strict player specs. but those are moot points now. if those were the reasons you bought it, then get blu ray now as it is the superior technology and has the specs hd once had. there is no advantage to hd dvd anymore. or you just throw a tantrum and hold your breathe until the adults pay attention or you pass out. cheers.

Very good point. Infact I'm not sure the issue is moot just yet. Has the 2.0 version been released yet? If not I'm sure it will be moot by the end of 4th quarter.

Another thing I hear a lot about is the whole studio support issue.
Now this is only my opinion but I think, Disney being the most pirated media in the world, chose Blu Ray not because of it's supposed quality advantage, but because of it's encription advange. Also I hear that Sony has partial ownership of some of the other studios in the BR wagon. Not sure about that, But I really think the disney decision was originally based on the copy protections of BR being much better than that of HD DVD.

[pflieger]

Originally Posted by sparksj

You're right. If Para was not bought out, where would they be? But they were. So what's your point. Put down the Sony cool aid and step away from teh table. Better yet, I challange you to give me one good reason why BR disk is better today. (and don't start with the , "they're future proof" thing, because I already agree with you there). Give me just one real world reason...

I think things will only get better for Blu-Ray but if someone tells you a piece of technology is 'future proof" then they need to look at history, there is no such thing in technology as "future proof" everything gets replaced and technology advances.

Actually there is no real world reason that Blu-Ray is better then HD DVD right now, maybe in the near future or maybe not, who knows for sure?

Neither Blu-Ray nor HD DVD are "future proof", they will be around for quite some time the way it looks right now.

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by oldmike

and once more you ignore the point
there is only room for one HD format and if we dont get one soon then we all lose
Down loads are CRAP and that is what we will be stuck with

Not sure what point I'm ignoring. But you do have a point. If this goes on much longer people will get fed up. If / when I get a BR player, my research tells me that the only one worth getting in the PS3. It's the only one that has all of the functionality of the 2.0 final format. I'll feel weird buying a games system to watch movies.

With all of the massive technology built in to the PS3, how in the hell can Sony sell it for less than a stand alone BR player? Wouldn't you think since a stand alone player only has to play movies it would require less hardware and could sell for less than the PS3?

Having a PS as a BR player is like driving a Porche on a paper route. It's iching to get out of first gear but never has the chance to.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by sparksj

You have to look at the facts....

Yes you do...

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by sparksj

I have tried a few times to reply to this, but it doesn't see to be working. I'll try one more time.

First of all, Matrix, try not to be suckered in by advertising.
Here are my resposes to your points:

#1. 1080i vs. 1080p not a difference unless you have a tube TV. So the price point still stands.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6361600-1.html

"As opposed to tubes, microdisplays (DLP, LCoS, and LCD rear-projection) and other fixed-pixel TVs, including plasma and LCD flat-panel, are inherently progressive in nature, so when the incoming source is interlaced, as 1080i is, they convert it to progressive scan for display."

#2. BR disk just got their "Final Standard" on Oct. 31st. However, to get the same functionality as HD DVD you have to wait until version 2.0 coming out soon. I guess they'll call it the "Final, we really mean it this time" standard. ; )
http://extratech.blogspot.com/2007/1...make-past.html

HD DVD... Same standard from the beginning.

Point #3. You are right and I'm wrong. I'll admit it. The bitrate for the BR is actually 3.5 mbps faster than the HD DVD 40 vs. 36.55. However, the HD DVD codec is supposed to give it better picture with slightly lower bitrate of BD. That's what they say. I say is about the same. Either way, it's a moot point. If it's that close, it's not worth $200 more to find out.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/reta...VD_Blu-ray.htm

Point #4 If you had read my post, you would have seent hat I too said that BR had the capacity advantage. But at this point in time (both formats currently releasing single layer formats) it's a non issue. This would only help BR in the future. But they have to make it that far first.

Point #5. First of all you have to realize that most people are going to be listening to their moves through their TV speakers. Even if they had suround sound, they would have to have a $1,000 plus system to tell the difference if any. I perosnaly don't think their is a difference. But even if I give you this point, most people just don't care. By next year HD DVD will be producing the 51GB disk that was just okayed. So it's only an issue for the next 6-8 months anyway. Besides, look at how many people listen to their audio on an Ipod which is no where near the quality of a CD. If that doesn't prove that poeple don't care as much about sound quality as you think they do, then nothing does.

In summary, for the next year, the two formats will practically be identical. Sure BR is more future proof. But HD DVD can still compete until it maxes out at 100GB which will not be for 2-3 years. Even then, they can always put the extras on a seperate disk. It never bothered people when DVD did that. The point I'm making is this. Quit trying to make huge issues out of things that 80% of the population doesn't even care about (Lossless sound, more capacity, etc..) What they do care about is Price and the fact that some of the new BR disks won't play on their old players without a firmware update (of which many have to send off for a CD to get it).

PS3 people are at the higher end of the tech chain. You guys don't mind ipping firmware off the net to load in to your player. But you, and Sony, have to remember that "50% of the population is of below average inteligance"..(nows your chance to crack a joke at me) ; ).

Until you realize that, you will stop being surprized by the fact the HD DVD is cathcing up.

I consider my self a techie. I am also an analyst. The techie part of me thinks we're better off if BR wins. However, the analytical part of me knows how easy HD DVD is making it for people to jump on their band wagon. Regardless of your opinion you can't egnore that. Mark my words... BR should win, but I think HD DVD is going to. That's why I bought in to it.

1 - compare equal electronics.

2 - HD DVD is not finalized - TL51 ring a bell?

3 - Good , you're learning (but still don't have the numbers right).

4 - Most current releases are on BD50, not BD25 single layer....nice try.

5 - See point 2, you're going to need a new HD DVD player most likely. Finalized spec, eh? Also the only reason people listen to compressed audio on ipods is so they can cram more songs in the player. No one is going for quality, they are going to for portability. This also disproves your item #1 as the Ipod is the most popular mp3 player and also the most expensive...so there goes HD DVDs price advantage talking point. Bye, bye point #1.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by sparksj

You're right. If Para was not bought out, where would they be? But they were. So what's your point. Put down the Sony cool aid and step away from teh table. Better yet, I challange you to give me one good reason why BR disk is better today. (and don't start with the , "they're future proof" thing, because I already agree with you there). Give me just one real world reason...

Because it can hold PCM audio tracks. Something that Transformers could not be released with. Also read my signature.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by sparksj

PS3 people are at the higher end of the tech chain. You guys don't mind ipping firmware off the net to load in to your player. But you, and Sony, have to remember that "50% of the population is of below average inteligance"..(nows your chance to crack a joke at me) ; ).

Until you realize that, you will stop being surprized by the fact the HD DVD is cathcing up.

So please explain to me how the masses of "below average inteligance" (btw - it's spelled intelligence) people are going to connect their HD DVD player to the internet to enjoy those super fantastic and much talked about online features when they are too dumb to do a simple firmware upgrade?

Are you going to explain to them how to set up DHCP? PPPoE? How to configure a router? Security? Nope, they just won't bother connecting it.

Bye, bye "advanced" features talking point....

[buckshot]

Originally Posted by sparksj

Very good point. Infact I'm not sure the issue is moot just yet. Has the 2.0 version been released yet? If not I'm sure it will be moot by the end of 4th quarter.

Another thing I hear a lot about is the whole studio support issue.
Now this is only my opinion but I think, Disney being the most pirated media in the world, chose Blu Ray not because of it's supposed quality advantage, but because of it's encription advange. Also I hear that Sony has partial ownership of some of the other studios in the BR wagon. Not sure about that, But I really think the disney decision was originally based on the copy protections of BR being much better than that of HD DVD.

there we go, glad you didn't take my jabs personally.

disney likes the region coding that bd offers that hd dvd does not.

fox wanted the extra protecton of bd+

sony pictures, well that goes without saying.

the others more than likely wanted these same features as well as seeing bd as more of a sure thing.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by sparksj

According Nielsen HD DVD has gained 2% market share in 2007 and 1% since inception. Remember I didn't say thet caught up... Just that they are gaining. A lot of this was due to recent sales, but they improved non-the-less.

According the Nelson, HD DVD was leading in softwares sales in '06, lost that lead and are still losing....

[sparksj]

Point #1: the 1080p HD DVD still alot cheaper
Point#2: All HD DVDs have worked on my player. Can't say the same for BR
point#3: We agree
Point#4: even so, 51GB HD DVD has been approved. To your point though, we don't know whent he disks will start being produced. So not an arguably great advantage (for now) But I already gave that to BR, so no news there
Point#5: Not really. MP3 was around long before Ipod. Given huge Hard drive capacities, people still chose to copy music to their PCs in MP3 format.
We could both argue point 5 for days and not get anywhere. Lossless audio has not been proven to be significantly better than comperessed that I'm aware of. Altthough I would love to see a test.

My point is that the "better" quality does not always trump price. Ipod also had the "cool" factor which neither HD disk format has at this point.

Apple should come out with a white BD disk player. That would change the tides

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

According the Nelson, HD DVD was leading in softwares sales in '06, lost that lead and are still losing....

My info comes from the October 28th release information. Check it out

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Because it can hold PCM audio tracks. Something that Transformers could not be released with. Also read my signature.

That's still a "spec" responses. Show me where people could actually hear a difference in the two...

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

So please explain to me how the masses of "below average inteligance" (btw - it's spelled intelligence) people are going to connect their HD DVD player to the internet to enjoy those super fantastic and much talked about online features when they are too dumb to do a simple firmware upgrade?

Are you going to explain to them how to set up DHCP? PPPoE? How to configure a router? Security? Nope, they just won't bother connecting it.

Bye, bye "advanced" features talking point....

Actually you just plug it in and it works. I had no setup.

[Bullseye]

Technology is where BD is superiour. If you cannot hear the difference between PCM and Dolby Digital then there is something wrong with your speakers or hearing. Its like comparing SDVD and a Hi-def disc. Something the HD-DVD fanboys will never admit to until they eventually buy a BD player when their format fails.

[oldmike]

just go back to AVS talking to you is like talking to a wall

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by buckshot

there we go, glad you didn't take my jabs personally.

disney likes the region coding that bd offers that hd dvd does not.

fox wanted the extra protecton of bd+

sony pictures, well that goes without saying.

the others more than likely wanted these same features as well as seeing bd as more of a sure thing.

Do you think the fact that the BR code has been crack change anything? I'm guessing no. Now that the capacity issue is well known, they will probably keep their support. If their is anyone that will know how to put that extra space to use it will be Disney.


Normally, I always go with what Disney says. If anyone has a history of accurately predicting where the future will take us, it's Disney. The problem is that if HD DVD gets enough players in homes by the end of fourth quarter , the 5 to 1 attach rate of HD DVD will start to put a dent in BR's lead. But that's just my prediction/fear. (And that is not based on what I want to happen, just what I think may happen)