Samsung Duo-player

[stevei]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Universal players will only cause both formats to coexist especially when some studios release better soundtracks on HD-DVD titles.

The vast majority of consumers DON'T CARE about uncompressed sound vs dolby digital because they aren't even listening to dolby digital properly from their dvd players. The vast majority of people I know just play dvds through their tv, both audio and video.

We can debate blu-ray vs hd-dvd all we like, but the contest is with dvd. Everyone I talk to in real life about the subject has no interest whatsoever in a "better than dvd" format. I tell them how much better blu-ray looks than dvd and they just shrug their shoulders, they don't care, they're quite happy with their dvds played back through their tv speakers. The only reason they bought into dvd when they already had vhs is that the boxes take up less shelf space and you don't need to rewind discs. Blu-ray and hd-dvd have neither of these advantages compared to dvds, so they see them as an irrelevance.

At the moment, hd formats are selling something like 1% of the quantity of dvds. If either or both hd formats are to be a success, this % needs to increase drastically. Universal hd players may be one way that the hd formats can start to win the war against dvds.

[Brent]

Saying there is no interest in HD discs is exactly equivalent to the early days of DVD when the same was said of DVD discs. The same was/is also said of HDTVs. But look at the margin... more people are adopting HDTVs, more people are purchasing HD cable/satellite, and more people own HD discs ALL THE TIME. The flip side to this is more production is focused on HD appliances and software/media content. The result is already obvious: Monitors are going to be larger, wider, slimmer, and have better resolution -- amongst other things.

As for Samsung, it is not news that the company supports both formats. They've had an HD-DVD laptop out and they've stated their support for both formats. What is more interesting is not that they are making a player that plays HD-DVDs, but that they will have 2 Blu-ray-only players and their support for HD-DVD is only within the confines of a hybrid player.

[HDTV1080P]

Samsung plans dual high-def player

Will release Duo HD to market in the fourth quarter


Here is a article from Video Business regarding this new player.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6433766.html?nid=2705

[RUR]

Originally Posted by JTK

LOTS can happen in the next 6+ months from now.

Amen, and all I can say is that this is one hell of a chess game, with many of the key moves invisible to us. I gotta believe that the BDA has a well thought out strategy thru year-end, culminating in a big holiday season push. Personally, I can't wait to see how it plays out and I believe it's very premature to be buying combo players. There's nothing Uni has that I can't wait for.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by KenB

Amen, and all I can say is that this is one hell of a chess game, with many of the key moves invisible to us. I gotta believe that the BDA has a well thought out strategy thru year-end, culminating in a big holiday season push. Personally, I can't wait to see how it plays out and I believe it's very premature to be buying combo players. There's nothing Uni has that I can't wait for.

^^ This is how I feel about it all.

[HDTV1080P]

Worse case Blu-ray nightmare stories (The information below is fiction and hopefully will not happen)

What would be a nightmare in this chess game is just before Universal Studios makes a decision to releases movies in Blu-ray that Microsoft makes an offer to purchase Universal Studios and they accepted. Then Universal Studios movies would only be on HD-DVD format, DVD, and HDTV downloads most likely. Microsoft if they were interested in the HD-DVD format and VOD downloads might one day try to purchase a movie studio like Sony did years ago.
Another Blu-Ray nightmare would be if brand name quality universal players under $500 caught on with the mainstream consumer in late 2008 and several millions were sold. Then some of the neutral studios might decide to release in HD-DVD only if millions of people own combo players. BLU-RAY is the better quality format with 20GB more capacity which results in better quality video and audio at higher bit rates.

I could think of other Blu-ray nightmares that could occur in a chess game but I am pro Blu-ray so I do not want to give ideas to the HD-DVD camp.

[hyperdine]

Well, the best indicator of the future, is past performance. The LG combo player has been a flop. We've had a combo player in the market for at least 3 months now, and it hasn't made a dent. Why would a combo player released 7 months from now perform any differently? Especially, when you look at the current trends and projections.

There's already a combo player out there and yet the Blu-Ray sales ratio has been growing, not shrinking. Besides, the people who are desparate for content on both formats have either... a) already bought a combo player, or b) own two standalone players (i.e. PS3 and 360 add-on).

It's disappointing to hear that Samsung is going this route, but I think when taken into perspective, it all ends up being a wash. Casino Royale has already proven what we've said all along...content is going to win the format war, and right now Blu-Ray has it...they just need more of it

Besides, there are two possible scenarios that could end this thing before Samsung's combo player even hits the market; Universal goes neutral and/or Paramount goes BD exclusive. That's end-game right there.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by hyperdine

Well, the best indicator of the future, is past performance. The LG combo player has been a flop. We've had a combo player in the market for at least 3 months now, and it hasn't made a dent. Why would a combo player released 7 months from now perform any differently? Especially, when you look at the current trends and projections.

There's already a combo player out there and yet the Blu-Ray sales ratio has been growing, not shrinking. Besides, the people who are desparate for content on both formats have either... a) already bought a combo player, or b) own two standalone players (i.e. PS3 and 360 add-on).

It's disappointing to hear that Samsung is going this route, but I think when taken into perspective, it all ends up being a wash. Casino Royale has already proven what we've said all along...content is going to win the format war, and right now Blu-Ray has it...they just need more of it

Besides, there are two possible scenarios that could end this thing before Samsung's combo player even hits the market; Universal goes neutral and/or Paramount goes BD exclusive. That's end-game right there.

The main reason LG combo player was a flop is because the player does not work correctly with both formats and it is not a fully functional HD-DVD player. Some people on this forum have said they also have had issues playing back BLU-RAY discs on the LG. It is technically possible to make a quality combo player. If Universal Studios stays exclusive to HD-DVD then if Pioneer made a combo player I can almost guarantee it would be a quality product.
I still do not own any HD-DVD Universal movies. I would love to see Universal studios go neutral and if Paramount were to go BLU-RAY exclusive one day that would be a victory for the BLU-RAY camp.

[GaS]

Hell, I would love for combo's to become the norm. Gives BD exclusive studios NO reason to go neutral. Would love to force all the inferior formats anti sony zealots to buy Sony BD's for the movies they want. Content is still the key.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Longshot

Interesting about the cheaper Sammy BD player. In time for xmas? This combo player is still 7-8 months out. That's a long time and much can happen between now and then.

Do you still think we'll see a Denon only BD player this year?

I haven't heard any new info on the Denon, except that they won't announce anything until they are sure they have it right.

Pioneer announced early, and then had to put up with a ton of embarassment as the release date slipped again and again. Lesson learned there, I think.

Gary

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by GaS

Hell, I would love for combo's to become the norm. Gives BD exclusive studios NO reason to go neutral. Would love to force all the inferior formats anti sony zealots to buy Sony BD's for the movies they want. Content is still the key.

Exactly. The basic fear I think that is being expressed here, I think, is that suddenly people won't consider HD DVD a risk because they can alwats get a combo player, so they will run out and buy an HD DVD player.

Could be. But, then there is still that matter of a studio exclusivity. They are still buying buggy players for three studios of content.

Unless this combo player has a 100x the effect of LGs, it won't do much. The fence sitters are probably be 2:1 more likely to see Blu-ray now being riskless, since they can always get a combo player or a super-cheap HD DVD in the future if Universal never wises up.

There is demand for combo players. Toshiba is sure not going to satisfy it. So, which side so far has been consumer friendly?

Gary

[jubaiweaponx]

also with the combo players coming out and the price drop on BD playes coming sure the combo units will be an option or a no brainer for someone who sits on the fence .It still sells software but I also admit it may extend the format war onward beyond a point which might have been in view.I feel it also sits with some of the studio holdouts (universal) could have some effect ,I honestly think it isn`t great to have another combo released to the market . any idea on price for the unit?? It also looks bad in press releases when samsung a BD supporter goes dual format and is sited in news as "realizing what a good value hddvd is"
What say you ?

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by jubaiweaponx

also with the combo players coming out and the price drop on BD playes coming sure the combo units will be an option or a no brainer for someone who sits on the fence .It still sells software but I also admit it may extend the format war onward beyond a point which might have been in view.I feel it also sits with some of the studio holdouts (universal) could have some effect ,I honestly think it isn`t great to have another combo released to the market . any idea on price for the unit?? It also looks bad in press releases when samsung a BD supporter goes dual format and is sited in news as "realizing what a good value hddvd is"
What say you ?

I would say it's just a little payback for making Warner and Paramount neutral, since they were both suppose to be HD DVD exclusives.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by stevei

The vast majority of consumers DON'T CARE about uncompressed sound vs dolby digital because they aren't even listening to dolby digital properly from their dvd players. The vast majority of people I know just play dvds through their tv, both audio and video.

People really don't want to miss out on an experience that others are having. It's just human nature. That's what generally got people into DVD in the first place...that and people's old VHS player died and younger family members or friends told them they needed to get a DVD player.

Just remembering history helps you see the future.

[LeoneFan]

All I gotta say is F$%k samsung. Back stabbing sacks of s%^t. Can't the BDA take some kind of action against them since they are effectively trying to help the opposition?

[Shin-Ra]

They can cuss them bad - behind their backs.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by LeoneFan

All I gotta say is F$%k samsung. Back stabbing sacks of s%^t. Can't the BDA take some kind of action against them since they are effectively trying to help the opposition?

Eh, I'm not sure I'd go that far.

If you take a step back and look at the big picture: This really changes nothing.

The precedent is already out there: The LG Dual format player is a complete bust.

Like that player, these dual units will probably appeal to some HD-DVD only folks that want a backdoor way out from Toshiba land to "something better" and yeah, they'll just happen to have some BD support at that point as well.

They get to "save face" and have a nice, graceful way out of sorts.

Certainly this Samsung will probably be more appealing and a better piece of equipment than anything Toshiba's got and hey, what the hell, you buy a couple of those BD discs that have been eating away at you for a few months, like Casino Royale. See how that works?

There's nothing here for either of these players for someone who's already bought into BD whatsoever. We've got our nice hardware. We've got 90 percent studio support. Very few, if any BD people will even blink at these things.

After that, of course, we come to the fence sitters and the folks that were "supposed to carry HD-DVD to the quick finish line" in the form of average joe/Joe Six pack.

^^ This is a mantra you couldn't get away from a year ago and you still hear it today.

It's the kiss of death on any venture out of the gate when you're placing your hopes on Joe Six Pack.

But I digress...

J6P is going to continue to be apathetic and possibly even more confused than they are now. Who can blame them?

THD discs, combo players, and two seperate HD formats will simply keep most of those people well into DVD land. Honestly, who can blame them?

How stupid is this: Buy a combo player and then buy your combo discs...I guess you flip a coin that night to see which format version you're in the mood to watch?

Pointless!


Samsung and LG both makes lot of money on lots of ventures. They can afford to throw these glorified experiment fodders out there at relatively minimal loss and risk. If anything, these dual players are charity life rafts to HD-DVD only supporters. They keep all their HD-DVD stuff and they get their foot into BD.

Fox? Disney? Sony Studios? MGM/UA? There's only one way and one place to get all those movies and that's with BD.

So, if anything, these duo players will be a negation and a very slight indirect positive for BD.

Just another perspective to think about.


Footnote: I'm wondering if duo player is the route we'll see other companies like Onkyo, Denon, and Meridian (among others) take. These companies have been doing the universal trick in DVD for years now.

Personally, I find it hard to believe the rumors that Onkyo and Meridian would put out standalone HD-DVD players. There just isn't any money to be made there.

We'll see...

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by LeoneFan

All I gotta say is F$%k samsung. Back stabbing sacks of s%^t. Can't the BDA take some kind of action against them since they are effectively trying to help the opposition?

please its not Samsung...ITS TOSHIBA....if you do not think its Toshiba Pulling the Strings it is...HD-DVD is getting absorbed by BLU-RAY...they are not helping the OPPOSITION...YOU SEE TOSHIBA AN Samsung are one in the same when it involves the production of optical drives:

Toshiba and Samsung Electronics to Integrate Optical Disk Device Businesses

22 September, 2003

Toshiba Corporation
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.

Tokyo and Seoul -- Toshiba Corporation and Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. today signed a memorandum of terms covering integration of their respective optical-disk-drive businesses in a joint venture. The two companies will now finalize details of the agreement in readiness for incorporation of the joint venture.

The new joint venture will bring together product and business planning, product development, procurement and sales for optical-disk drives (ODD), including CD-ROM and DVD-ROM drives. The new company will be 51% owned by Toshiba and 49% owned by Samsung Electronics and consolidated by Toshiba. The JV will be headquartered in Japan, while its wholly owned subsidiary established in Korea will control operations there.

The scale of the combined operation will position the joint venture among the world leaders in the ODD business. With 2002 annual sales exceeding 200-billion yen, the collaboration is expected to further enhance its global position.

The optical-disk-drive business faces fast changing customer requirements for faster, slimmer drives, and a rapid transition in the main product to recordable DVD drives. Price erosion and alliances are also making themselves felt and further intensifying competition. In this environment, advantages in technology, product development and price competitiveness are all crucial for survival.

The new joint venture will construct a competitive business structure that can promote optimized use of management resources and leadership in the global market.

About Toshiba Corporation

Toshiba Corporation is a leader in information and communications systems, electronic components, consumer products, and power systems. The company's integration of these wide-ranging capabilities assures its position as a leader in semiconductors, optical-disk drives, HDDs, PCs, mobile consumer products, and other electronic devices. Toshiba has 166,000 employees worldwide and annual sales of over US$47 billion. Visit Toshiba's web site at: http://www.toshiba.co.jp/index.htm

About Samsung Electronics

Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. is a global leader in semiconductor, telecommunications, and digital convergence technology. Samsung Electronics employs approximately 75,000 people in 89 offices in 47 countries and business performance for 2002 account for 49.6billionUS$ in sales and 5.9billionUS$ in net income. Samsung Electronics is the world's leading company of advanced semiconductors, TFT-LCDs, CDMA mobile phones, monitors and VCRs. Samsung Electronics consists of four main business units: Device Solution Network, Digital Media Network, Telecommunication Network and Digital Appliance Network Businesses. More information can be found at: http://www.samsung.com

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2003_09/pr2202.htm

[JTK]

Originally Posted by joeorc

please its not Samsung...ITS TOSHIBA....if you do not think its Toshiba Pulling the Strings it is...HD-DVD is getting absorbed by BLU-RAY...they are not helping the OPPOSITION...YOU SEE TOSHIBA AN Samsung are one in the same when it involves the production of optical drives:

Toshiba and Samsung Electronics to Integrate Optical Disk Device Businesses

22 September, 2003

Toshiba Corporation
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.

Tokyo and Seoul -- Toshiba Corporation and Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. today signed a memorandum of terms covering integration of their respective optical-disk-drive businesses in a joint venture. The two companies will now finalize details of the agreement in readiness for incorporation of the joint venture.

The new joint venture will bring together product and business planning, product development, procurement and sales for optical-disk drives (ODD), including CD-ROM and DVD-ROM drives. The new company will be 51% owned by Toshiba and 49% owned by Samsung Electronics and consolidated by Toshiba. The JV will be headquartered in Japan, while its wholly owned subsidiary established in Korea will control operations there.

The scale of the combined operation will position the joint venture among the world leaders in the ODD business. With 2002 annual sales exceeding 200-billion yen, the collaboration is expected to further enhance its global position.

The optical-disk-drive business faces fast changing customer requirements for faster, slimmer drives, and a rapid transition in the main product to recordable DVD drives. Price erosion and alliances are also making themselves felt and further intensifying competition. In this environment, advantages in technology, product development and price competitiveness are all crucial for survival.

The new joint venture will construct a competitive business structure that can promote optimized use of management resources and leadership in the global market.

I'm not sure I share your conclusion on all that, as much as I like it.

We're constantly seeing all of these companies on all kinds of joint ventures in the PC market and home theater outside of this whole BD and HD-DVD thing. Heck, even Sony and Toshiba have a couple of joint ventures on some things, do they not?

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by JTK

I'm not sure I share your conclusion on all that, as much as I like it.

We're constantly seeing all of these companies on all kinds of joint ventures in the PC market and home theater outside of this whole BD and HD-DVD thing. Heck, even Sony and Toshiba have a couple of joint ventures on some things, do they not?

i can see your take on it...but

its defently 100% true..because if HD-DVD was selling so well why produce BLU-RAY drives through ONE of a fab production lines when it could go toward produceing more HD-DVD player's...aah but that explains Samsung produceing their players through the TOSHIBA LINES because the merger..back in 2003....but it does not explain....

why are the still produceing blu-ray drives right now an putting out a COMBO DRIVE since Unlike the LG combo drive..this one HAS IHD interactivity. where did Samsung get that IHD interactivity..from TOSHIBA..no doubt....what was the first BLU-RAY DRIVE TO HIT THE US...A SAMSUNG...WHAT PLANT DID THAT SAMSUNG PLAYER get produced at..through a production line owned 100% by...TOSHIBA....

SIMPLE Toshiba is selling 2 HD types of movie player's .an double dipping on the consumer...this has reached a new low..its bad enough DOUBLE DIPPING ON MOVIE DISC'S they moved on to players.... ..now that's greed. if i ever saw greed ..the HD-DVD zealots are getting so played..