I hate vets!

[FendersRule]

As George Carlin states:

"The nice thing about dogs, is they die soon. The good thing is, you can own lots of dogs. Hell, you can get your next dog that looks the same as your previous dog!"

Rough times are rough times. If my dog required a very expensive surgery (I mean something over $3,000) and during his very later years, I wouldn't consider it. I have to live myself, especially with student loan bills, etc.

Good luck with what you do.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by BluHavik

Man that sucks. I hope your pets do end up ok, god knows they are like family. Your story sadly does echo what happened to me a few years ago. I was helping my dad take down this old rusted ass fence in his yard and cut myself in the process. It had been years since my last tetanus(sp?) shot so I had to go get one. I had no health insurance at the time so I went to a local clinic. Got the shot and paid the $50 bucks that they charged me thinking that was it. About 2 weeks later I get a bill for $200 from the doctor that gave me the shot and another one for $150 from the clinic for "facility's." I saw a doctor for a maximum of 2 minutes. As you can imagine I was livid but in the end it was I had to pay that bs or ruin my credit. American health care at it's finest $400 for a f'n tetanus shot

Yeah, I had something similar happen. Doctor saw me all of 5 minutes and I get two bills. One from the hospital and one from the doctors office in excess of 800 dollars. All to tell me there was nothing they could do. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Bletch

Oh, how sad...i really feel for you and your dog. I lost my beloved rottie girl Heidi a couple of weeks ago and it have broken me down totally- she was 10 years old ...so i'll sincerely hope your friend is doing well now.

Very sorry to hear that. I know its going to be really hard for us when the time comes. Really hard. There was a lady and her boyfriend that came in while we were there. The dog ingested a bunch of tylenol. She was in tears but manage to stay somewhat funny. She called him the "stupid dog". Lol. Found out all was ok when we came back. They will be fine.

Originally Posted by FendersRule

As George Carlin states:

"The nice thing about dogs, is they die soon. The good thing is, you can own lots of dogs. Hell, you can get your next dog that looks the same as your previous dog!"

Rough times are rough times. If my dog required a very expensive surgery (I mean something over $3,000) and during his very later years, I wouldn't consider it. I have to live myself, especially with student loan bills, etc.

Good luck with what you do.

Thankfully we have not been put in that position. I do understand though. However we will do what we can to help our friends out.


We picked him up and he is bandaged really nice and tight all the way around. He also has a collar. He is whining and not happy. I don't care. We are not going to have another incident.

[badboi]

Ask your vet for an e-collar (Elizabethan collar). Looks like a lampshade. And also ask about a spray that keeps them from itching. It works. Can't believe they didn't offer or suggest these things to you from day 1 after the surgery.

[quexos]

Sorry too lazy to read the whole thread. So you hate what ? Veterinarians ? Veterans ? Vet as in Wet but mispronounced, god does my post make any sense

[Marquoz]

Originally Posted by quexos

Sorry too lazy to read the whole thread. So you hate what ? Veterinarians ? Veterans ? Vet as in Wet but mispronounced, god does my post make any sense

Wow, you really should have read at least the initial post....

[quexos]

Originally Posted by Marquoz

Wow, you really should have read at least the initial post....

Oh great now on top of being lazy I have to feel guilty. God I hate Sundays !

[Doc_Stew]

Originally Posted by phlydude

yeah, the fees for a vet and the medicine costs are a racket

I'm a veterinarian, and everyone needs to make a living. We go to school for a VERY long time, and incur seemingly insurmountable amounts of debt. In fact, some would argue we are better trained than MDs (find one MD that knows anything about zoonotic and/or parasitic diseases - they get ONE lecture on it during their four years of schooling). So if MDs make hundreds of thousands of dollars and people don't blink, why is it that people complain about veterinary prices when the average starting salary of a veterinarian is only $60,000?

I recommend EVERYONE purchase pet insurance. The reason MDs can make so much is because insurance pays for their salaries so people don't blink when they need to have tests done. But because most pets aren't insured, when a veterinarian needs to run some tests, people complain at having to pay for them. Do you work for free? Neither do we.

The fact remains - if you can't afford to care for an animal, then you shouldn't own one. I can't say that enough. And the reason veterinarians don't do billing is because we don't have insurance companies paying bills - we rely on people. And can you honestly say that if we were to bill every client, we would get 100% of that money owed to us? People would skip out on the bill and never look back. It happens all the time still, which is a big problem.

And there definitely are some shady veterinarians out there. Unless you are extremely attached to your veterinarian, then I highly recommend you seek veterinary care elsewhere. Ask around for recommendations, research online. By far, veterinarians are some of the most trustworthy people around. Every year they're rated in the top five most trusted professions, while MDs are far, far down on that list.

We do what we do because we love it. No one gets in the profession for the money. So when we are devalued by people that complain about having to pay their bills, we take offense. You always have a choice - no one forces you to proceed with anything. But if you run up a bill, we expect it to be paid. Do you tell the check-out lady at the grocery store that you will only pay $100 of your $200 grocery bill and ask to be billed for the rest?

Veterinary bills aren't a "racket" - it's how we make a living.

[Doc_Stew]

Originally Posted by DrinkMore

Don't know. They asked us if we wanted it tested, I declined. Told the doctor its a 50/50 chance it's cancer or not.

Obviously I can't make a diagnosis based on pictures, but for as aggressive as that tumor looks, I'd first think about a mast cell tumor, which are malignant. Some are more aggressive than others, and you can only tell definitively based on histopathology.

I imagine the reason the incision was so big is because your veterinarian suspected a mast cell tumor (or other carcinoma) and had to get wide surgical margins. That is essential to remove any cancerous cells - if he had just peeled out the tumor, cancerous cells would've remained and the tumor would've just grown right back. On top of that, the incision would have NEVER healed.

It's essential you keep your dog from getting his mouth on that incision. An e-collar is a must, and you also may consider putting on a t-shirt over that to make sure. Some dogs are determined enough to get their e-collars off, so it's good to have a backup just in case.

In any event, I hope it heals soon and your dog has much more squirrel chasing in his future

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

The fact remains - if you can't afford to care for an animal, then you shouldn't own one.

And there you have it in a nutshell. I can't go to my car mechanic and say please bill me later..... I need my car to get to work. I can't go to the power company and say I'll catch up my bill in a few months so please don't cut my power off. I can't go to Wal-Mart and say my kids are hungry... but I have no cash... can I please have some groceries anyway...... I promise I'll pay later.

I don't keep a balance on my credit cards... so I always have that for emegencies..... but if I were in dire straits and my animals really needed help... I'd sell one of my hdtv's. I'd sell my game consoles. I'd sell my audio gear. I'd sell all of my blu's. I'd do whatever I had to do to take care of my responsibility towards them. I wouldn't let them just be sick while I gripe about the vet not wanting to treat them for just a promise.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by badboi

Ask your vet for an e-collar (Elizabethan collar). Looks like a lampshade. And also ask about a spray that keeps them from itching. It works. Can't believe they didn't offer or suggest these things to you from day 1 after the surgery.

YES! He has one on right now. It's HUGE and it's BLUE! Lol. Along with that, he is bandaged up really really tight! So he has 2 measures of security now. Both are going to stay on until it's safe to remove!

Originally Posted by quexos

Oh great now on top of being lazy I have to feel guilty. God I hate Sundays !

It's ok, but yeah, at least read the first post

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

I'm a veterinarian, and everyone needs to make a living. We go to school for a VERY long time, and incur seemingly insurmountable amounts of debt. In fact, some would argue we are better trained than MDs (find one MD that knows anything about zoonotic and/or parasitic diseases - they get ONE lecture on it during their four years of schooling). So if MDs make hundreds of thousands of dollars and people don't blink, why is it that people complain about veterinary prices when the average starting salary of a veterinarian is only $60,000?

I recommend EVERYONE purchase pet insurance. The reason MDs can make so much is because insurance pays for their salaries so people don't blink when they need to have tests done. But because most pets aren't insured, when a veterinarian needs to run some tests, people complain at having to pay for them. Do you work for free? Neither do we.

The fact remains - if you can't afford to care for an animal, then you shouldn't own one. I can't say that enough. And the reason veterinarians don't do billing is because we don't have insurance companies paying bills - we rely on people. And can you honestly say that if we were to bill every client, we would get 100% of that money owed to us? People would skip out on the bill and never look back. It happens all the time still, which is a big problem.

And there definitely are some shady veterinarians out there. Unless you are extremely attached to your veterinarian, then I highly recommend you seek veterinary care elsewhere. Ask around for recommendations, research online. By far, veterinarians are some of the most trustworthy people around. Every year they're rated in the top five most trusted professions, while MDs are far, far down on that list.

We do what we do because we love it. No one gets in the profession for the money. So when we are devalued by people that complain about having to pay their bills, we take offense. You always have a choice - no one forces you to proceed with anything. But if you run up a bill, we expect it to be paid. Do you tell the check-out lady at the grocery store that you will only pay $100 of your $200 grocery bill and ask to be billed for the rest?

Veterinary bills aren't a "racket" - it's how we make a living.

Never said vet's should not be able to make money. Not at all. My gripe was the fact that a vet was really not willing to give us an opportunity to make arrangements for a deferred payment. Which was the ONLY thing needed. I know there are people out there that would rip them off. That's in any job that deals with the public and billing.

However, in the end - it worked out and everything was paid in full at the time of service. The vet was paid, $360.00 for the initial visit and previous owed amount. A couple days later, he was paid another $630.00 dollars for the surgery. $1000.00 dollars. Then the emergency visit to fix the stitches was $398.00 dollars. Initially, the estimate for his emergency visit was $615.00 dollars - MORE THAN HIS SURGERY TO REMOVE THE TUMOR TO BEGIN WITH! I understand emergencies and am more than happy to pay a $100 dollar emergency fee, but to jack up all the prices just because you have the word emergency in your name is insane. It really is. Maybe that's just me? Either way, we are over it - money is money and it all worked out. He is fixed and resting.

Pet insurance is not cost effective. It does not help anyone at the time of service at a vet. You have to pay the entire cost and then recoup that cost from the insurance company that takes a while. Which defeats the purpose. Of course you get the money back, but what about having to foot the entire cost up front? If you have to do that anyway - wheres point?

As for being able to afford a pet, well - that's really not a problem. Never will be. I would be selling off whatever I need to - to provide care for that animal. Period. Tv's, valuables, blu's, whatever it takes to raise the money. Period. We feed expensive food and pay a premium every month to make sure our animals have the best. What average person spends $42 dollars on a bag of dog food x 4 every month? What average person spends $32 dollars on cat food x 4 every month? Treats, on top of treats, toys, good litter, etc etc. Not many. So yeah, we can afford it. However tell me how many people are actually prepared to shell out $1500.00 - $3000.00 on the spot for surgery/emergencies?

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

Obviously I can't make a diagnosis based on pictures, but for as aggressive as that tumor looks, I'd first think about a mast cell tumor, which are malignant. Some are more aggressive than others, and you can only tell definitively based on histopathology.

I imagine the reason the incision was so big is because your veterinarian suspected a mast cell tumor (or other carcinoma) and had to get wide surgical margins. That is essential to remove any cancerous cells - if he had just peeled out the tumor, cancerous cells would've remained and the tumor would've just grown right back. On top of that, the incision would have NEVER healed.

It's essential you keep your dog from getting his mouth on that incision. An e-collar is a must, and you also may consider putting on a t-shirt over that to make sure. Some dogs are determined enough to get their e-collars off, so it's good to have a backup just in case.

In any event, I hope it heals soon and your dog has much more squirrel chasing in his future

Your diagnosis is correct if memory serves. He wanted to get as much of it as he could OUT in case it was cancerous. He stated that it was in the muscle too - the reason the incision is so large.

Originally Posted by robinandtami

And there you have it in a nutshell. I can't go to my car mechanic and say please bill me later..... I need my car to get to work. I can't go to the power company and say I'll catch up my bill in a few months so please don't cut my power off. I can't go to Wal-Mart and say my kids are hungry... but I have no cash... can I please have some groceries anyway...... I promise I'll pay later.

I don't keep a balance on my credit cards... so I always have that for emegencies..... but if I were in dire straits and my animals really needed help... I'd sell one of my hdtv's. I'd sell my game consoles. I'd sell my audio gear. I'd sell all of my blu's. I'd do whatever I had to do to take care of my responsibility towards them. I wouldn't let them just be sick while I gripe about the vet not wanting to treat them for just a promise.

You are a good pet owner! I would do the same thing and HAVE done it before.

[GBMidge7]

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

I'm a veterinarian, and everyone needs to make a living.... .

Thank you SO much for this post. I am a student at Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine about to graduate in 3 months and it pains me to see the opinions of people who think we're just out to screw them. The fact of the matter is this... everything costs money, and veterinarians usually do everything they can to help (as animals are our true passion, not money as many inexplicably think) within the bounds of reasons. Trust me, if we were all about money, there are many more jobs out there that would pay us more, but we love animals, and we're interested in what's the VERY best for them... unfortunately their care is often under the constraints of what their owners are able to provide, but we do whatever we can. Unfortunately there are some not so great vets out there, and if the OP had an experience with one such vet, then I'm sorry, but we are doctors, we did go to school for 6-8 years, and we deserve to charge what we're worth, just as our human counterparts do.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by GBMidge7

Thank you SO much for this post. I am a student at Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine about to graduate in 3 months and it pains me to see the opinions of people who think we're just out to screw them. The fact of the matter is this... everything costs money, and veterinarians usually do everything they can to help (as animals are our true passion, not money as many inexplicably think) within the bounds of reasons. Trust me, if we were all about money, there are many more jobs out there that would pay us more, but we love animals, and we're interested in what's the VERY best for them... unfortunately their care is often under the constraints of what their owners are able to provide, but we do whatever we can. Unfortunately there are some not so great vets out there, and if the OP had an experience with one such vet, then I'm sorry, but we are doctors, we did go to school for 6-8 years, and we deserve to charge what we're worth, just as our human counterparts do.

This post is interesting. You keep saying it's not about the money - but that's what you keep talking about.

First and foremost, I never said vet's were rip offs and were making a killing. In fact, I made only one reference to cost and that was in regards to the emergency visit. Other than that, my vet costs have been pretty good. That's one of the reasons we switched vets a few years back.

This goes for any profession - if you are passionate about what you do and love your job, money is always secondary. Helping people/animals is always primary.

[phlydude]

Doc Stew - if you are going to quote, please take the whole post as it is relevant

Answer me this...why is it that I can take a dog to the SPCA and have it nuetered for less than $100 but my vet charges me $250?

Why is is that I can order flea and tick treatments online for 60-70% of what a vet would charge me?

I have found that in my experiences, in general, vetinary practices PREY on the attachement that people have with their pets. They charge handsomely for services and mark-up medications because most people aren't patient or saavy enough to find a dispensary (whether store front or online/phone) that deals with animal medications. They also "recommend" things to do with the pet like a car salesman selling the preventative coating when you buy a car.

Look, not a bash against veternarians in general, there are a lot of good ones out there. But there are some that spoil the bunch when it comes to pet care - maybe because in the past veternarian practices were few and far between and they could get away with charging higher prices because the common pet owner had no way of knowing that they were being over charged or not.

[badboi]

Originally Posted by phlydude

Doc Stew - if you are going to quote, please take the whole post as it is relevant

Answer me this...why is it that I can take a dog to the SPCA and have it nuetered for less than $100 but my vet charges me $250?

Why is is that I can order flea and tick treatments online for 60-70% of what a vet would charge me?

I have found that in my experiences, in general, vetinary practices PREY on the attachement that people have with their pets. They charge handsomely for services and mark-up medications because most people aren't patient or saavy enough to find a dispensary (whether store front or online/phone) that deals with animal medications. They also "recommend" things to do with the pet like a car salesman selling the preventative coating when you buy a car.

Look, not a bash against veternarians in general, there are a lot of good ones out there. But there are some that spoil the bunch when it comes to pet care - maybe because in the past veternarian practices were few and far between and they could get away with charging higher prices because the common pet owner had no way of knowing that they were being over charged or not.

Was going to stay out of this, but here's my 2¢. First, if you paid $100 to have your pet neutered, you overpaid. I charge $60 for the service. Maybe in your area that is the going rate, but not where I practice.

You have painted all us in a very broad stroke, and you couldn't be further from the truth. I don't know of any vets in my area, and in all the time I've been practicing, who prey on pet owners. Like was said before, 99% of us are in this profession because we have a love for animals and this is what we enjoy. Unfortunately, we also have bills to pay. Insurance, employee salaries (and I do pay them well, because without good employees, it's hard to be successful), building mortgage, property taxes, electricity, and so forth. I make a good salary and live a comfortable life, however, after all the education and training I've had, I should be entitled to that. One thing I have never done is turn anyone away, whether they had the ability to pay or not. Once in a while I get burned by that, but that is not very often.

Sorry if you've had bad experiences with your vet. I would suggest you find one that you are comfortable with and build a relationship with him or her. But don't go around accusing all of us of preying on people. You are way off base.

[GBMidge7]

Another reasonable post, thank you. It just tears my heart out to hear things like "Vets prey on the attachment people have to their animals." I mean, wow, really??? I'm not going to say anything further to try and argue my side, as it appears anything said will be refuted... I just hope people realize we really are out to help in any way we can, and are absolutely apologetic for those (hopefully few) who end up with a bad experience.

[Doc_Stew]

Originally Posted by phlydude

I have found that in my experiences, in general, vetinary practices PREY on the attachement that people have with their pets. They charge handsomely for services and mark-up medications because most people aren't patient or saavy enough to find a dispensary (whether store front or online/phone) that deals with animal medications. They also "recommend" things to do with the pet like a car salesman selling the preventative coating when you buy a car.

I don't think I've read a more ignorant post on this site before. You've obviously been burned by a bad experience, and lump us all into this "veterinarians hope to take advantage of peoples' attachments to their animals" category. It is beyond ridiculous and nowhere near the truth. If you've had a bad experience, that sucks. But there will ALWAYS be people like that in ANY profession. Have you ever had a car mechanic take advantage of you? Or a salesman? Or anyone you do business with online? Give me a break.

We don't recommend things like car salesman recommending preventative coating. The majority of veterinarians (there are always exceptions) recommend what's in your pet's best interest. If we recommend preventative dental care, it's because we see on a daily basis dogs coming in with their teeth rotting out of their mouths and their gums filled with pus and disease. If we recommend bloodwork screening on an older animal, it's because we see lots of "healthy" animals that are in renal failure, and we hope to catch it early so we can treat appropriately.

Did you know that we all take an oath upon graduation that says:

"Being admitted to the profession of veterinary medicine,
I solemnly swear to use my scientific knowledge
and skills for the benefit of society
through the protection of animal health,
the relief of animal suffering,
the conservation of livestock resources,
the promotion of public health
and the advancement of medical knowledge.

I will practice my profession conscientiously, with dignity
and in keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics.
I accept as a lifelong obligation the continual improvement
of my professional knowledge and competence."?

The majority of veterinarians take their jobs very seriously. If you've had a bad experience, find another veterinarian. Don't make blatantly ignorant statements saying we're all out to take advantage of you. If you feel victimized, then do something about it and grow up.

[Doc_Stew]

In regards to phlydude's statement about paying for drugs at your veterinarian's office as opposed to buying them cheaper online - obviously, you have a choice. No one forces you to buy drugs at your veterinarian's office. But be aware that if you buy drugs online, they are NOT guaranteed by the manufacturer. There is no climate control and no expiration date monitoring in those online warehouse facilities.

For instance, if you were to buy heartworm preventative online and your dog happens to come down with heartworm disease, the manufacturer will NOT cover treatment. The average cost of treating a heartworm positive dog is about $1000. If you were to buy the preventative from your veterinarian and your dog happens to come down with the disease, the manufacturer WILL pay for treatment.

It's about peace of mind, and some people care more about it than others. You are free to do whatever you choose. So again, before you start making blanket ignorant statements about veterinarians, get educated and know what you're talking about first.

As for the OP, sorry about your situation but glad it all got worked out. I advise you, next time, to not title threads like "I hate vet's!!" as you are bound to offend a lot of people. Did you not think there are any veterinarians that also happen to be interested in high def? It'd be like me starting a thread like "I hate cops!" or "I hate high def enthusiasts!"

[GBMidge7]

"Don't make blatantly ignorant statements saying we're all out to take advantage of you. If you feel victimized, then do something about it and grow up."

AMEN! Unfortunately, Doc, it seems like this situation is a little like...

And I was just going to post about Heartworm disease and manufacturers covering costs and what not, but you beat me to it! Beyond the cost, treating a dog infected with heartworms is just not something I would want a person or their dog to go through, as the dog must be confined, there is risk with treatment, and so on. To me the piece of mind of treating prophylactically is well worth the cost of the monthly meds.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

In regards to phlydude's statement about paying for drugs at your veterinarian's office as opposed to buying them cheaper online - obviously, you have a choice. No one forces you to buy drugs at your veterinarian's office. But be aware that if you buy drugs online, they are NOT guaranteed by the manufacturer. There is no climate control and no expiration date monitoring in those online warehouse facilities.

For instance, if you were to buy heartworm preventative online and your dog happens to come down with heartworm disease, the manufacturer will NOT cover treatment. The average cost of treating a heartworm positive dog is about $1000. If you were to buy the preventative from your veterinarian and your dog happens to come down with the disease, the manufacturer WILL pay for treatment.

It's about peace of mind, and some people care more about it than others. You are free to do whatever you choose. So again, before you start making blanket ignorant statements about veterinarians, get educated and know what you're talking about first.

As for the OP, sorry about your situation but glad it all got worked out. I advise you, next time, to not title threads like "I hate vet's!!" as you are bound to offend a lot of people. Did you not think there are any veterinarians that also happen to be interested in high def? It'd be like me starting a thread like "I hate cops!" or "I hate high def enthusiasts!"

I tried changing it early on and it would not let me. Trust me. I agree with some things and disagree with others. There are BAD vets out there. I had one. Now, I have a good one I think.

EDIT: I will say GBMidge7 - Andy - You look like a really nice guy. Looks like you will make a great vet.

[GBMidge7]

Really appreciate that, man, glad you feel that way