Frogmort's HT Pad

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Ok then raise the other surrounds to 150Hz. You do understand what I was saying correct? Unless you are using floorstanders for your surrounds you do not need to achieve 80 Hz for rear and side surrounds. Let the subwoofers do the heavy work.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but my surrounds are rated (+/-3db) 65hz-20khz, so 80hz should be reasonably within their range, and from everything that I've read, information above 80hz is noticeably directional by the human ear. That's why THX chose 80hz as their standard crossover point. Big Daddy has also stated that 80hz is a good starting point several times. 150hz just seems way to high to me. Also, I don't have massive 15" subwoofers all over the place like you.

Originally Posted by spaceape

Does your neighbor look like this?

Actually, he's a good bit older than that, but basically yes. If you crossed that guy with Willie Nelson, then that's my neighbor. He's actually a pretty nice guy, but he's got a loud truck, a loud mouth, and a loud dog.

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but my surrounds are rated (+/-3db) 65hz-20khz, so 80hz should be reasonably within their range, and from everything that I've read, information above 80hz is noticeably directional by the human ear. That's why THX chose 80hz as their standard crossover point. Big Daddy has also stated that 80hz is a good starting point several times. 150hz just seems way to high to me. Also, I don't have massive 15" subwoofers all over the place like you.

I disagree on the Polks specs. Let's just say they were being optimistic.

This was also posted by BD in his Bass Management Part II post.

There really isn't a standard low pass cutoff frequency that applies to all situations. The THX suggestion to use 80Hz applies only to THX Certified Speakers. These speakers are required to have low frequency extension down to 80Hz. It is not a blind recommendation that applies to all speakers. It doesn't make much sense to set the HPF to 80Hz, for example, if the other speakers are small satellites and their frequency responses do not go below 100Hz. Even though bass frequencies above 100Hz may become directional, a higher high pass filter such as 120Hz may be required.

If you would like to prove me wrong on the low end of those surrounds turn off the subs and disconnect the main speakers then play a 65Hz test tone throught the surrounds and tell me you can hear the note. Be aware if you do not have a spl meter to truely record whether the speaker is playing the 65Hz note, what you might hear is the distortion of the note and by ear you would be hearing the second harmonics (130Hz)

I'm just trying to help Joe. I have been doing this as long as Big D. He just writes better then I do. BTW leave my subwoofers out of this discussion.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

I disagree on the Polks specs. Let's just say they were being optimistic.

This was also posted by BD in his Bass Management Part II post.


If you would like to prove me wrong on the low end of those surrounds turn off the subs and disconnect the main speakers then play a 65Hz test tone throught the surrounds and tell me you can hear the note. Be aware if you do not have a spl meter to truely record whether the speaker is playing the 65Hz note, what you might hear is the distortion of the note and by ear you would be hearing the second harmonics (130Hz)

I'm just trying to help Joe. I have been doing this as long as Big D. He just writes better then I do. BTW leave my subwoofers out of this discussion.

Oh I'm pretty sure you're correct, that the Polk specs are exaggerated.

I have read pretty much all of Big Daddy's stickies, and I'm assuming a "small satellite" speaker would be more like this:



I would consider my M10's to be small bookshelf speakers, not satellites. They have 5.25" mid-drivers.

I don't have an SPL meter, but apparently Audyssey measures the -3db drop-off point and sets the cutoff frequency and any filter adjustments above this range, and it set my side surrounds to 80hz.

I do appreciate all of the advice you've given me, but I just can't seem to get over the fact that 150hz seems like a really high cutoff point to me.

[hometheatergeek]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Oh I'm pretty sure you're correct, that the Polk specs are exaggerated.

I have read pretty much all of Big Daddy's stickies, and I'm assuming a "small satellite" speaker would be more like this:



I would consider my M10's to be small bookshelf speakers, not satellites. They have 5.25" mid-drivers.

I don't have an SPL meter, but apparently Audyssey measures the -3db drop-off point and sets the cutoff frequency and any filter adjustments above this range, and it set my side surrounds to 80hz.

I do appreciate all of the advice you've given me, but I just can't seem to get over the fact that 150hz seems like a really high cutoff point to me.

Your Polks can not do bass very well if they only have 5.25" mid drivers and do not have woofers. The only thing creating the bass in those speakers is the port. So they might be called bookshelves but they are more like satellites.

One other thing, sometimes Audyssey gets it wrong. When it was running the test sweep on your surrounds that registered 80Hz, the mic might have pickup another low noise and interpreted the results incorrectly and when the test was done on the rears in did it correctly.

In the end Joe do what makes you feel good. My suggestions are based solely on my past experiences doing installs.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by hometheatergeek

Your Polks can not do bass very well if they only have 5.25" mid drivers and do not have woofers. The only thing creating the bass in those speakers is the port. So they might be called bookshelves but they are more like satellites.

One other thing, sometimes Audyssey gets it wrong. When it was running the test sweep on your surrounds that registered 80Hz, the mic might have pickup another low noise and interpreted the results incorrectly and when the test was done on the rears in did it correctly.

In the end Joe do what makes you feel good. My suggestions are based solely on my past experiences doing installs.

I really do appreciate all of your help Al.

80hz isn't really all that deep is it? I specifically made those back-support stands to try to help my rears project what little mid-bass that they can, since there was nothing at all behind them before. I would like to at least see what all of my hard work will do for them. I can always re-run Audyssey again, or adjust them higher later.

As far as picking up other sounds, it's funny that you said that, because I was just now attempting to run Audyssey, and as soon as I started, one of my neighbors(not the loud redneck guy) started running a freakin' bulldozer or something, and it's shaking my whole house, so I aborted it. Oh, now all of a sudden, as I type this, it's just now started freakin' raining too, and I have a tin roof. Something doesn't want me to run Audyssey.

Oh well, I'll just do it later.

[HAMP]

I turn off so much stuff when I run audyessy.

Florescent lights
HVAC
My Computer
My Cell Phone
My DVR to my DirecTV

[spaceape]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I turn off so much stuff when I run audyessy.

Florescent lights
HVAC
My Computer
My Cell Phone
My DVR to my DirecTV

Turn off every electric device even the projector..at least while the chirps are going on. I always turn off my refrigerator as it's a major pain in the *** .

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by spaceape

Turn off every electric device even the projector..at least while the chirps are going on. I always turn off my refrigerator as it's a major pain in the *** .

I need to re-run audyessy in my bedroom. The power was cut the other day. My Onkyo 805 will not keep it's settings when the power is lost to it.

One of these days I will put it in the shop to be repaired.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I turn off so much stuff when I run audyessy.

Florescent lights
HVAC
My Computer
My Cell Phone
My DVR to my DirecTV

Originally Posted by spaceape

Turn off every electric device even the projector..at least while the chirps are going on. I always turn off my refrigerator as it's a major pain in the *** .

Thanks for the heads up guys. I tried running Audyssey the first time with my projector on, and it said to reduce ambient noise, so I had to shut it off and use the AVR display. Now I've started turning everything in the house off before running it, including my cellphone and fridge. I usually leave my computer on, but I turn off the monitor. It's in another room about 30 feet away from my HT room.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Thanks for the heads up guys. I tried running Audyssey the first time with my projector on, and it said to reduce ambient noise, so I had to shut it off and use the AVR display. Now I've started turning everything in the house off before running it, including my cellphone and fridge. I usually leave my computer on, but I turn off the monitor. It's in another room about 30 feet away from my HT room.

That is interesting, I didn't know, if the AVR heard too much background noise, it would caution. I wonder if mine has that or is that something new to the XX9 series?

I turn the computer off because of harddrive noise. My computer is close to the theater area, you can see it in my pics.

That's why I turn off my DVR to DirecTV, I can hear the harddrive on it at times, I figured, If I can hear it, the mic can too.

[spaceape]

Close all you doors and don't stand in the room while it's measuring.

[Show spoiler]Don't breath!

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by HAMP

That is interesting, I didn't know, if the AVR heard too much background noise, it would caution. I wonder if mine has that or is that something new to the XX9 series?

I turn the computer off because of harddrive noise. My computer is close to the theater area, you can see it in my pics.

That's why I turn off my DVR to DirecTV, I can hear the harddrive on it at times, I figured, If I can hear it, the mic can too.

Yeah, it wouldn't even let me proceed. I had to turn off the projector and completely start over.

The only three components that I have in my HT room is my PJ, AVR, and BD player, and I keep everything off except for the AVR while running Audyssey.

Originally Posted by spaceape

Close all you doors and don't stand in the room while it's measuring.

[Show spoiler]Don't breath!

I always take my remote out of the room, and click start while I'm in another part of the house. Even though I'm in another room, I stand completely still, and breathe as quietly as possible. I can't believe how well the remote works, even in another part of the house.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I always take my remote out of the room, and click start while I'm in another part of the house. Even though I'm in another room, I stand completely still, and breathe as quietly as possible. I can't believe how well the remote works, even in another part of the house.

Unlucky me for that part, My receiver is a ***** with the remote. At first I thought it was the Harmony, but it acts funny with the original too.

I've been thinking about buying the RF adaptor for mine.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Unlucky me for that part, My receiver is a ***** with the remote. At first I thought it was the Harmony, but it acts funny with the original too.

I've been thinking about buying the RF adaptor for mine.

I've got all of my components in the closet in the back of my room, but luckily I can point all three of my remotes towards the front wall, and they all have OSD's, so I don't have to point or look to the back.

Also, my Onkyo's remote can be programmed to control my pj and BD player too, but I haven't messed with that yet. From browsing the owners manual, it seems that I can point another remote at the Onkyo's remote, push a button on the original remote, the push the one I want to move it to on the Onkyo's.

[spaceape]

Have you tried placing the rear surrounds on top of the closets? I think maybe some of the bad measurements could be because they're placed inside of those. Or batter still directly on the back wall. Maybe the rear wall is thinner than the side wall and that can also have something to do with it.

Just a thought mate. You don't have to do everything we tell you.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I wasn't too happy that Audyssey set my side surround crossovers at 80hz, but set the rear surrounds at 150hz, especially since they are all four the same speakers. I'm sure that it's because the sides are flush mounted on the walls, and the rears are sitting on shelves with nothing behind them. Today I woke up with the idea to build some back-supported shelf-stands, for lack of a better word, for my rear surrounds to try to get the crossovers a little lower than 150hz. Pictures coming shortly.

I'm sorry, I meant to comment on this earlier. I understand you being pissed, because I was also. My Onkyo did the same thing to me. All four are the same, and it made my sides 80Hz and the rears 120hz.

People made excuses for audyessy/Onkyo, saying it’s the room, and I don’t believe that anymore. I believe the rears are raised for a reason unknown to me, other then it’s the room.

I played with the mic positions and my sides are still 80hz, but the rears are now 100Hz. I’m tempted to raise the sides to match the 100Hz, but I much prefer to match the 80hz.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by spaceape

Have you tried placing the rear surrounds on top of the closets? I think maybe some of the bad measurements could be because they're placed inside of those. Or batter still directly on the back wall. Maybe the rear wall is thinner than the side wall and that can also have something to do with it.

Just a thought mate. You don't have to do everything we tell you.

I really wish I could mount the back surrounds on the back walls. Unfortunately, there's just not enough wall there to do this:

[Show spoiler]

There is enough room on one side, but not on the other, plus they would be much different distances from the sidewalls and main seating area.

If I placed them over the closets on the wall, the tops of the speakers would be flush against the ceiling, and that seems like a bad idea.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I'm sorry, I meant to comment on this earlier. I understand you being pissed, because I was also. My Onkyo did the same thing to me. All four are the same, and it made my sides 80Hz and the rears 120hz.

People made excuses for audyessy/Onkyo, saying it’s the room, and I don’t believe that anymore. I believe the rears are raised for a reason unknown to me, other then it’s the room.

I played with the mic positions and my sides are still 80hz, but the rears are now 100Hz. I’m tempted to raise the sides to match the 100Hz, but I much prefer to match the 80hz.

Did you see the things I made this morning for my back surrounds?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=633

My rear surrounds were on shelves with nothing behind them, whereas my side surrounds are mounted directly on the wall. I'm hoping to go rerun Audyssey here soon to see if it made a difference, but there has been constant distant thunder for about four hours now.

[spaceape]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I really wish I could mount the back surrounds on the back walls. Unfortunately, there's just not enough wall there to do this:

[Show spoiler]

There is enough room on one side, but not on the other, plus they would be much different distances from the sidewalls and main seating area.

If I placed them over the closets on the wall, the tops of the speakers would be flush against the ceiling, and that seems like a bad idea.

Okay.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Did you see the things I made this morning for my back surrounds?

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=633

My rear surrounds were on shelves with nothing behind them, whereas my side surrounds are mounted directly on the wall. I'm hoping to go rerun Audyssey here soon to see if it made a difference, but there has been constant distant thunder for about four hours now.

Oh!!! Ok, I think I understand what your getting at. You feel the rears 'Do not have a solid wall' behind them like the sides do?

Are they rear ported? I don’t think, that’s going to make a difference if they are not real ported, but it’s worth the test. We all have tested our own equipment and room placement, why not you.

Since we are on this subject, I was looking at your pics, have you thought about moving your front speakers forward from the wall some?

Mine are on a shelf, and sometimes I wish I had stands to put them on and move forward, but I found out, I am fine since I have the rear port plugged. The 2inches from the wall is fine.

I need to lower the shelf with my mine.