House: Two Stories (1986-1987) (Limited Edition)

[Talyn]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

Where are you finding the UK set for so cheap?

Depending on shipping method....it's $41-ish on Amazon UK....I'm... thinking about it...

[splintersan]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

Where are you finding the UK set for so cheap?

I purchased the UK set from Amazon.uk for $38 shipped.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

Where are you finding the UK set for so cheap?

Amazon.co.uk. I paid $40 and change for my copy shipped to the states. I pre-ordered though and had locked in a price a few dollars cheaper than the current price, but the difference isn't much and is still likely cheaper than the US set after tax/shipping costs.

[Rockercub]

Originally Posted by nitin

FWIW dvdexotica's post about Crimes of Passion tends to suggest that it's framed fine. Same with their post about The Stuff.

I didn't see anything in Crimes of Passion that looked like it wasn't meant to be seen. It's opened up on all sides, so I'm fine with it. It's an off-center presentation that really bugs me.

[iamnoone]

Originally Posted by iamnoone

Also, does Arrow's VAMP also have extraneous info on the left side, as compared to the Image Blu/Anchor Bay DVD?

I actually still had the Image Blu of "VAMP" and just did a quick side-by-side with Arrow's version and the framing looks almost identical (just a sliver less on the bottom edge on Arrow's but so minor, hardly noticeable). So that's a Lakeshore release that Arrow got right. Weird, though, that Image's Blu looks like a better encode to my eyes - both have nice grain and it's not a DNR issue, either. Anyway, no one really cares about VAMP anyway, so both options are fine, and Arrow's at least has extras.

[jebhdb]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

Amazon.co.uk. I paid $40 and change for my copy shipped to the states. I pre-ordered though and had locked in a price a few dollars cheaper than the current price, but the difference isn't much and is still likely cheaper than the US set after tax/shipping costs.

Are the blu ray cases standard size? Could they be switched out for the clear cases Vinegar Syndrome uses? The blue cases are messing with my ocd when all my other Arrow titles have clear cases.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

Are the blu ray cases standard size? Could they be switched out for the clear cases Vinegar Syndrome uses? The blu cases are messing with my ocd when all my other Arrow titles have clear cases.

They appear to be standard size yes. I plan to swap them out with Viva Elite Clear cases myself once my set arrives so I can report back if you choose to wait on ordering.

[jebhdb]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

They appear to be standard size yes. I plan to swap them out with Viva Elite Clear cases myself once my set arrives so I can report back if you choose to wait on ordering.

I went ahead and ordered the UK release. Can't justify paying basically the same amount for two less movies in the US set. Please let me know if the Viva Elites will work when you receive it. If so I'm going to purchase come clear cases to swap them out.

[splintersan]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

They appear to be standard size yes. I plan to swap them out with Viva Elite Clear cases myself once my set arrives so I can report back if you choose to wait on ordering.

Let me know if those cases work for you. I would like to swap mine out as well but I'm in no rush.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by jebhdb

I went ahead and ordered the UK release. Can't justify paying basically the same amount for two less movies in the US set. Please let me know if the Viva Elites will work when you receive it. If so I'm going to purchase come clear cases to swap them out.

Will do. My set has a delivery estimate of April 10th but hopefully I'll have it well before then.

[Jr7936]

I paid about $44 for ludwig and house shipped from amazon.co.uk
So around $22 each which isnt bad

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

They have done very few IP scans though, and these are mainly the ones which have the same issues.

I had no idea they did so few IP scans. I guess they mostly do OCN scans. Why would they frame the former incorrectly and the later perfectly? Seems super odd. Also they said they didn't scan Hellraiser 3 at all, it was delivered to them.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by drb124

Encoded in the wrong color space (PC levels) so that it is washed out on a normal tv/monitor.

To be exact, it was an IRE level issue.

Originally Posted by Shingster

Not every release on DVD was framed correctly and we're seeing a tonne of films being opened up in the HD era, not every transfer Arrow do with more information on the left is indicative of any kind of problem. Audition? It's in a wider ratio than the Scream Factory transfer (which is pretty close to the UK DVD) and only has a bit more information on the sides, there is absolutely no problem with Audition. Dillinger I don't own yet but it doesn't seem particularly problematic in the CaH comparison, it's more open than the DVD for sure but it seems to varying degrees (which would suggest it isn't some blanket opening up, or that the DVD isn't cropped to a specific standard). We really should assume that this is a Lakeshore/Arrow combination issue until someone provides compelling proof of issues outside of that relationship.

As I wrote before, the issue is that what we see is more info to the left, but we still don't know how much to the left we are when speaking of the total film area.
It could very well be that Hellraiser 3 is not just "more to the left" but to the total left of the film (thus showing the soundtrack area), while the other ones are just showing more info to the left (but still not the soundtrack area).

We know the relative shift, but we don't have the absolute one, especially since we're using a variable reference (previous DVDs). Unless we're sure the previous DVDs were showing 100% of what was supposed to be shown and 0% of what wasn't, we don't know how much on the BDs aren't supposed to be shown.

I doubt it's the case, but it's technically a possibility, and it would explain why all these open up to the left but only some reveal issues while still retaining compositions that don’t seem vastly destroyed by the left opening.

Again : relative differences VS absolute end result.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I had no idea they did so few IP scans. I guess they mostly do OCN scans.

I was surprised myself when looking for these info. When doing themselves the work, they mostly do OCN scans. Otherwise, it’s usually material handled to them.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Also they said they didn't scan Hellraiser 3 at all, it was delivered to them.

I think the James White defence really confused people, and I still think it was a bad idea responding to the controversy that way. To me, the 3 Hellraisers haven’t been handled by Arrow at all. They might have had a final look at it, maybe for cleaning up or final color grading tweaking, but that’s it. So when James answered about Hellraiser 3, it made it look as if they had a say in some earlier elements, which I do believe they hadn’t.

In any case however, his post is quite clear about what they received and at which stage the master already was :

“The process taken to bring Hellraiser III to Blu-ray was to utilise new 2K scans delivered by Lakeshore International, the rights-owner of the film for the UK. These scans were made from the original 35mm Interpositive elements and these files were delivered to us masked to 1.85:1, the original ratio of the film.”

So Lakeshore gave them what we got on the disc, and if there was any framing mistake, Arrow didn’t ask for it, they only chose not to tamper with what they received, which is a whole different story.

[Brutalizer79]

For anyone wondering, the UK version cost me $40.00 USD with shipping from Amazon Uk. Well worth it, I mean, its not a whole lot more than the US version and you get the other two movies. Its region B, so if you can play those, it makes more sense to go this route imo.

[Worship.my.wreck]

Originally Posted by Brutalizer79

For anyone wondering, the UK version cost me $40.00 USD with shipping from Amazon Uk. Well worth it, I mean, its not a whole lot more than the US version and you get the other two movies. Its region B, so if you can play those, it makes more sense to go this route imo.

It's actually region free so anyone can play them. It's a no brainer to get the U.K. Version.

[jebhdb]

I contacted Arrow on Twitter regarding the case sizes. They said the cases are 11mm. They said the reason they used blue cases was the manufacturer ran out of clear ones, so they used blue to keep the release on track.

[Ruined]

For those not keeping score, besides HOUSE, CHUD, etc which currently has no alternative BLU releases... Note this does not take into account extras.

LAKESHORE RELEASES w/ MULTIPLE REGION A BLU-RAY VERSIONS

BEST REGION A PICTURE QUALITY RELEASE
Creepshow 2 - IMAGE - USA (correct framing - Arrow's framing is terrible, exposes animation boundaries)
Hellraiser 1 - ARROW - USA (best sharpness, color)
Hellraiser 2 - ARROW - USA (best sharpness, color)
Hellraiser 3 - KING RECORDS - JPN (correct framing - Arrow's framing is terrible, exposes set pieces)
The Hills Have Eyes - ARROW - USA (best sharpness, color, higher res original audio)
Vamp - TIE between IMAGE USA and ARROW USA - IMAGE has less macroblocking, ARROW is brighter w/ finer grain. If you already have the Image version, not worth the upgrade unless you want the extras.

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by tenia

As I wrote before, the issue is that what we see is more info to the left, but we still don't know how much to the left we are when speaking of the total film area.
It could very well be that Hellraiser 3 is not just "more to the left" but to the total left of the film (thus showing the soundtrack area), while the other ones are just showing more info to the left (but still not the soundtrack area).

We know the relative shift, but we don't have the absolute one, especially since we're using a variable reference (previous DVDs). Unless we're sure the previous DVDs were showing 100% of what was supposed to be shown and 0% of what wasn't, we don't know how much on the BDs aren't supposed to be shown

I must have missed your earlier post but yeah exactly, we still haven't really ascertained a reliable point of reference for these films, we can see that something must be wrong about the Arrow framing on Lakeshore properties but we've not yet gauged the full extent, and when you've got guys like James White supervising these releases, well that's a guy who knows his onions and has a rock solid reputation, Arrow are not winging these releases. If there's a blatant technical problem with the framing then there must be a very specific reason for it, and the quality of Arrow's other work should stand for itself and give people the confidence to not worry about their other releases. Consumers should focus on these lakeshore releases and push Arrow to address the situation.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Shingster

I must have missed your earlier post but yeah exactly, we still haven't really ascertained a reliable point of reference for these films, we can see that something must be wrong about the Arrow framing on Lakeshore properties but we've not yet gauged the full extent, and when you've got guys like James White supervising these releases, well that's a guy who knows his onions and has a rock solid reputation, Arrow are not winging these releases. If there's a blatant technical problem with the framing then there must be a very specific reason for it, and the quality of Arrow's other work should stand for itself and give people the confidence to not worry about their other releases. Consumers should focus on these lakeshore releases and push Arrow to address the situation.

There are obvious technical framing issues with Hellraiser 3, Creepshow 2, and House - that anyone can easily see. It sure does seem these releases were "winged" as a simple QA viewing would have exposed the issues.

* Dillinger - Not a lakeshore release but also has the same problem, not quite as noticeable - except in scenes like this where the extras in the background abruptly end where the frame is supposed to be cut off & excessive headroom.

* Hellraiser 3, there is a scene were an off-set piece on the left not meant to be seen is shown, spoiling the special effects of the scene. Also obvious it is off-center.

* Creepshow 2, you can see the animation literally disappear on the left hand side of the frame at times because it is too exposed where it was not intended to be shown.

* House, you can see crew members and off-set pieces to the left of the frame, and again way off center. i.e.: http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a...=97703&i=6&l=0

All three of these releases have scenes that make it obvious the Arrow framing is completely incorrect and the previous releases had correct framing. But it appears Arrow would prefer to leave defective product out there than address the issue, with their ridiculous statement on Hellraiser 3.

Also note, there is nothing preventing Arrow from fixing these except money and Blu-ray enthusiast indifference. Even an amateur hobbyist could put these defective encodes into a video editing suite and zoom/pan the picture the correct amount (about 130% zoom, hard right pan) as the encodes have consistently wrong framing throughout the entire feature. It wouldn't look as good as if it were encoded right the first time, but it would sure look loads better than the current remarkably wrong framing. But Arrow likely does not want to pay for this because they figure Blu-ray enthusiasts will accept and buy their defective products regardless of the issues anyway.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Also note, there is nothing preventing Arrow from fixing these except money and Blu-ray enthusiast indifference.

Lot of assumption in your post, but this is the biggest one. Arrow made it pretty clear they were delivered Hellraiser III as-is, and were prevented by license contract from altering it. I also think Shingster is right that Arrow's reputation should speak for itself, and I don't like just assuming they're lazy. If contracts stopped them from doing anything to Hellraiser III I think it's quite possible it stopped them from doing something with the others.

Also in the case of Creepshow 2 I really do think the issue was minor. Hopefully it's minor on House as well, but it sounds like it might not be.