The Official Pioneer Elite 21/23/25/27 Receivers Thread

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by edubb5

Yea, for me it is go this way or sale my Boston's and get deftech speakers! But I like the sound out of my bostons. Just want more of it to sound like those deftechs. And I thought with two subs! I can get that boom along with the clarity

Give these stickys a read if you haven't already. They are from Big Daddy and will help with sub set-up and placement.

A Guide to Bass Management
A Guide to Subwoofers: Characteristics, Placement and Adjustments
A Guide to Subwoofers: Standing Waves and Room Modes
A Guide to Crossover Networks & Crossover Settings

[malibuite]

I am going to by one of these receivers this weekend and can get an incredible deal through 6Ave. Not sure if BB will price match but they are out of stock on all three anyways here in Santa Barbara. I usually never have a problem deciding on what to buy. My living room is approx. 13x16 and I currently use a Marantz SR7400, Samsung 46" LCD 1080p 120hz, fatty PS3, B&W speakers along with a Velodyne Sub (5.1). I am upgrading for the benefit of all HDMI. Am I going to notice a huge difference between the 3 Elite receivers? Here is the pricing that I am able to get.
21 - $499
23 - $619
25 - $1198

I am not sure if the extra HDMI is worth $120 step up from the 21 to the 23 or if the the 25 is worth double the price for my current system. When I have a dedicated home theater in a larger house and upgrade to B&W 800d's I will use separate components (not sure when this will be).

I am just not sure and would appreciate additional input from some current owners/enthusiasts.

Thank you!

Marc

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by malibuite

I am going to by one of these receivers this weekend and can get an incredible deal through 6Ave. Not sure if BB will price match but they are out of stock on all three anyways here in Santa Barbara. I usually never have a problem deciding on what to buy. My living room is approx. 13x16 and I currently use a Marantz SR7400, Samsung 46" LCD 1080p 120hz, fatty PS3, B&W speakers along with a Velodyne Sub (5.1). I am upgrading for the benefit of all HDMI. Am I going to notice a huge difference between the 3 Elite receivers? Here is the pricing that I am able to get.
21 - $499
23 - $619
25 - $1198

I am not sure if the extra HDMI is worth $120 step up from the 21 to the 23 or if the the 25 is worth double the price for my current system. When I have a dedicated home theater in a larger house and upgrade to B&W 800d's I will use separate components (not sure when this will be).

I am just not sure and would appreciate additional input from some current owners/enthusiasts.

Thank you!

Marc

The 23 also has Multi-channel PQLS for audio while the 21 has 2-channel. Then the 23 as you mention has the extra HDMI input, but it also has a second HDMI output that the 21 does not have. This can be very handy to have for future use. The 23 also has 3 zones for multi-room use and GUI in support of your display. These really are the only differences between the 21 and 23.

Now, the 25 is obviously a bigger step up based on price tag, but there is a reason why. First, the 25 has the ICE amps, which really make these things sing. These amps are very efficient and do add just that much more clarity to your sound IMO. You are also getting 30 extra watts per channel, and with Pioneers, they are usualy very close with their specs to true performance, so an extra 30 watts is nothing to sneeze at. The 25 offers Full Band phase control that the other 2 do not. The 25 also offers LPCM, WAV, MP3, AAC and FLAC audio formats, plus streaming internet radio, sirius via internet and is firmware updatable. There is an extra component video input and S-video Input if this matters (probably not.) There is also an extra Composite A/V Input as well. Lastly, the 25 has one more digital input (4optical and 2 coaxial) and and extra optical output over the other 2 models. The 25 is about an inch taller and deeper, plus weighs about 3 lbs more than the 23 and about 4 lbs more than the 21 if size is an issue.

So in a nuthshell, these are the differences. Is it worth the extra $500 for the 25? That is up to you and if you value the extra power, efficiency of the ICE amps, internet connections and extra inputs/outputs, then your answer is yes. If not, then I say go with the 23, as that is worth the extra $120 IMO. I understand the 25 is a huge jump, but you are getting an extra $500 worth of upgrades, it just depends if you consider those upgrades important enough to you.

Good luck!

[edubb5]

Just some info! I know that I am New to the Pioneer receivers coming from a ONKYO 876. But was wanting to know about the Speaker settings. I see that You can set your speakers from Large to Small in the Pioneer's SC-27. In the Onkyo 876, it give you Large are you just put in the frequency response you like. I used to have my fronts to 90hz, center 100hz, and surrounds to 90hz! And the LFE to 100. In my Pioneer SC-27 it just give the option from Large to Small! Why and what does the receiver set my frequency too, since I can't no longer put what I want my cut off to be in each speaker! "OR DOES THAT MCACC TAKE CARE OF IT"

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by edubb5

Just some info! I know that I am New to the Pioneer receivers coming from a ONKYO 876. But was wanting to know about the Speaker settings. I see that You can set your speakers from Large to Small in the Pioneer's SC-27. In the Onkyo 876, it give you Large are you just put in the frequency response you like. I used to have my fronts to 90hz, center 100hz, and surrounds to 90hz! And the LFE to 100. In my Pioneer SC-27 it just give the option from Large to Small! Why and what does the receiver set my frequency too, since I can't no longer put what I want my cut off to be in each speaker! "OR DOES THAT MCACC TAKE CARE OF IT"

The frequency range is set at 80hz across the board for all speakers, as this is the default setting. Being a tweaker, this is my biggest gripe. I came from an Onkyo as well, and liked the ability to be able to adjust my individual crossovers for each speaker. However, you do not have this with the Elite's. I think they figure that MCACC does such a reliabily good job with its settings, that giving us this option was not necessary. They figured wrong in my book......

[edubb5]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

The frequency range is set at 80hz across the board for all speakers, as this is the default setting. Being a tweaker, this is my biggest gripe. I came from an Onkyo as well, and liked the ability to be able to adjust my individual crossovers for each speaker. However, you do not have this with the Elite's. I think they figure that MCACC does such a reliabily good job with its settings, that giving us this option was not necessary. They figured wrong in my book......

Your Right on that man! I love the fact that I am now Matching my Pioneer Plasma and my 23fd Blu Ray player. But man, Sometimes I miss things about that ONKYO... But I like the Pioneer SC-27 a lil Better

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by edubb5

Your Right on that man! I love the fact that I am now Matching my Pioneer Plasma and my 23fd Blu Ray player. But man, Sometimes I miss things about that ONKYO... But I like the Pioneer SC-27 a lil Better

Unfortuntely with the Pioneer's as well, you now need to go back to frying your eggs on your stove, instead of on top of that 876......those boys run hot!

[Irrob]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Unfortuntely with the Pioneer's as well, you now need to go back to frying your eggs on your stove, instead of on top of that 876......those boys run hot!

You mean fortunately Pioneer Elites run cool. Now my TX-SR605 will melt your hands!

MCACC seems way more robust than Audyssey. But I agree it would have been nice to be able to separately set my rears to 100hz and the fronts/center/sub to 80hz.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Irrob

You mean fortunately Pioneer Elites run cool. Now my TX-SR605 will melt your hands!

MCACC seems way more robust than Audyssey. But I agree it would have been nice to be able to separately set my rears to 100hz and the fronts/center/sub to 80hz.

I think I worded that post strangely, as I was joking about how I actually liked to fry my eggs on my old Onkyo and now, unfortunately I can't any longer with my SC-05....

[edubb5]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

I think I worded that post strangely, as I was joking about how I actually liked to fry my eggs on my old Onkyo and now, unfortunately I can't any longer with my SC-05....

lol! I will def keep that Pioneer OVER THAT ONKYO 876! That Onkyo was easy to run! but i hear once you get those Pioneer Elite's set right.. They will blow your mind away! LOL... I just hope... Bec I am still calibrat..

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Irrob

You mean fortunately Pioneer Elites run cool. Now my TX-SR605 will melt your hands!

I've heard that ALOT, but I've never noticed mine being all that hot.

[Irrob]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

The 23 also has Multi-channel PQLS for audio while the 21 has 2-channel. Then the 23 as you mention has the extra HDMI input, but it also has a second HDMI output that the 21 does not have. This can be very handy to have for future use. The 23 also has 3 zones for multi-room use and GUI in support of your display. These really are the only differences between the 21 and 23.

Now, the 25 is obviously a bigger step up based on price tag, but there is a reason why. First, the 25 has the ICE amps, which really make these things sing. These amps are very efficient and do add just that much more clarity to your sound IMO. You are also getting 30 extra watts per channel, and with Pioneers, they are usualy very close with their specs to true performance, so an extra 30 watts is nothing to sneeze at. The 25 offers Full Band phase control that the other 2 do not. The 25 also offers LPCM, WAV, MP3, AAC and FLAC audio formats, plus streaming internet radio, sirius via internet and is firmware updatable. There is an extra component video input and S-video Input if this matters (probably not.) There is also an extra Composite A/V Input as well. Lastly, the 25 has one more digital input (4optical and 2 coaxial) and and extra optical output over the other 2 models. The 25 is about an inch taller and deeper, plus weighs about 3 lbs more than the 23 and about 4 lbs more than the 21 if size is an issue.

So in a nuthshell, these are the differences. Is it worth the extra $500 for the 25? That is up to you and if you value the extra power, efficiency of the ICE amps, internet connections and extra inputs/outputs, then your answer is yes. If not, then I say go with the 23, as that is worth the extra $120 IMO. I understand the 25 is a huge jump, but you are getting an extra $500 worth of upgrades, it just depends if you consider those upgrades important enough to you.

Good luck!

This is great information. I put most of it in the first post. Hope you dont mind

[Fors*]

If it helps irrob, then I'm all for it. The information I put up is straight from the specs off of the Pioneer website.

[Irrob]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

If it helps irrob, then I'm all for it. The information I put up is straight from the specs off of the Pioneer website.

Quite right, it's all off the website and easily accessible. But your post helps members who appear to have difficulty researching for themselves.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Irrob

Quite right, it's all off the website and easily accessible. But your post helps members who appear to have difficulty researching for themselves.

I admit that when first getting into home theater audio, I really had no reference point as to how powerful 130 watts with 7 channels running actually meant or how valuable having so many different listening modes meant. So I understand why people ask here first instead of doing a little research for themselves, it becomes a bit overwhemling and you don't have a "reference" to work off from. I think this is why we get so many posts about "what's the best receiver or speakers or subs, etc...." Sometimes you need guidance and a reference to work from, and by posting here, you are much more likely to get that here than trying to figure it out when starting on your own and attempting to understand the specs...

[Steve]

For those of you with the newer models, are you able to label the inputs to your liking, or are you stuck with defaults like 'DVD', 'VCR', 'CABLE', etc.? One of my biggest gripes against my Onkyo 605 has always been not being able to label the inputs to whatever I want them to say.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by fireman325

For those of you with the newer models, are you able to label the inputs to your liking, or are you stuck with defaults like 'DVD', 'VCR', 'CABLE', etc.? One of my biggest gripes against my Onkyo 605 has always been not being able to label the inputs to whatever I want them to say.

You can rename the input on last years and this years models fireman.

You just go into Input Set-Up, pick what input you want to change and select Rename.

(I'm glad I keep a copy of the manual here at work.....I may not remember everything exactly, but I know what and where it is in the manual now.... )

[Steve]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

You can rename the input on last years and this years models fireman.

You just go into Input Set-Up, pick what input you want to change and select Rename.

(I'm glad I keep a copy of the manual here at work.....I may not remember everything exactly, but I know where it is in the manual now.... )

Awesome, thanks Forsberg. I was hoping someone would say that. It's a little frustrating with my Onkyo because I have the PS3 labeled as 'DVD', the Xbox 360 labeled as 'VCR', and the Wii labeled as 'GAME'. I've always been irritated that I couldn't rename the inputs to 'PS3', 'Xbox360', 'Wii', etc.

By the way, I finally took your advice about the manual and printed a copy of it a couple of nights ago at work, but I haven't had a chance to start looking through it yet. At 154 pages long (and all in English I might add), this is something I didn't really want to print at home.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by fireman325

Awesome, thanks Forsberg. I was hoping someone would say that. It's a little frustrating with my Onkyo because I have the PS3 labeled as 'DVD', the Xbox 360 labeled as 'VCR', and the Wii labeled as 'GAME'. I've always been irritated that I couldn't rename the inputs to 'PS3', 'Xbox360', 'Wii', etc.

By the way, I finally took your advice about the manual and printed a copy of it a couple of nights ago at work, but I haven't had a chance to start looking through it yet. At 154 pages long (and all in English I might add), this is something I didn't really want to print at home.

I printed mine at work as well....that's too much paper and ink! Make sure to take it with you during those long bathroom breaks for some easy reading while at work. These receivers will allow you to do a lot of tweaking.....

[blu_man_916]

Can someone tell me how much air space is needed between the top of the receiver and tv cabinet?

The pioneer receiver I want measures 7 3/8 and I have about 8 1/2, which gives me about an inch in between. Is that enough space?

What do you think?