Why Blu-ray will win - by Ben Drawbaugh

[Ascended_Saiyan]

I just read statements from Amir that says X amount of hours of "HD material". I don't see 1080p/24 written down from him when he makes those comments. Has anyone else noticed that?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

I just read statements from Amir that says X amount of hours of "HD material". I don't see 1080p/24 written down from him when he makes those comments. Has anyone else noticed that?

1080p24 on the disc or output? The freely downloadable platform spec sheets (PDF) show the available storage formats.

[hmurchison]

Remember this?

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/new_format_war.html

Guido Henkels often quoted "opinion" on HD DVD vs Blu-Ray at CES 2006. Man he couldn't have been more wrong.

[ethan]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Remember this?

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/new_format_war.html

Guido Henkels often quoted "opinion" on HD DVD vs Blu-Ray at CES 2006. Man he couldn't have been more wrong.

I didn't read that article before, he's actually right on a few points wrong on some others, and the rest is still too premature to call. And he also mentionned it is mostly random toughts. So what's your point ?

You're talking to yourself again ?

Or changing the subject maybe ?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by ethan

I didn't read that article before, he's actually right on a few points wrong on some others, and the rest is still too premature to call. And he also mentionned it is mostly random toughts. So what's you point ?

You're talking to yourself again ?

Or changing the subject maybe ?

ethan you better ask some people who've argued with me a while like Marzetta7. I don't quit easy.

let's see where Guido was right and wrong.

Originally Posted by Guido

If I make the transition to high definition video I expect an image that is free of artifacts as we know them today. It needs to be absolutely clear, without edge-enhancement, without ringing, without dot crawl and without pixelation. HD-DVD has yet to prove it can offer that. Toshiba’s HD-DVD presentations at last year’s CES were ridiculously bad with colors that were bleeding to no end, and this year’s concerted effort of the industry was not much better. With its limited storage capacity HD-DVD is prone to over-compression to make room for audio tracks and supplements much the way DVD is actually, it is so even more because the required storage/quality ratio is much higher. Add to that the fact that the MPEG-4 compression theme has completely different characteristics than DVD’s MPEG-2 compression and a lot of disastrous quick-shot releases are already pre-programmed.

We all know this is wrong. HD DVD shipped with VC-1 and showed none of the characteristics he mentioned here. The storage size has been proven to not be a limiting factor. Audio and supplements are superior to many Blu-Ray discs. Consensus- Guido wrong.

Originally Posted by Guido

Enter Blu-Ray. At CES I saw among others Panasonic’s demonstration of Disney’s “Aladdin” on Blu-Ray and the effect was profound. I noticed details in the image that I had never seen before, not even in the theatrical prints. The lines of the image were so fine, it was unbelievable, and best of all the image was without a hint of an artifact. Perfect color balance, perfect shadow delineation, perfect edges and rock solid colors and blacks. I noticed the same effect on other Blu-Ray presentations and clearly, this is what I am looking for. A format that not only holds the promise of the future, but fulfills it.

Clearly he did not see Blu-Ray disc playing. It was proven that many BD displays were actually dummies and HD content was streaming off of a hard drive. Conensus Guido wrong again.

Originally Posted by Guido

Backwards compatibility for example, one of the hottest touted selling points of the HD-DVD camp. Frankly however, who cares? I have a DVD player and I don’t need a high definition player to play the same discs. Even if my DVD player should break it’s a mere $50 to replace it, but honestly, by the time it does break and needs


replacement, I probably won’t even care any more,

Legacy support is important to alot of people. The A1 is lauded for it's upscaling ability. Quido is definitely a minority here. Consensus Guido wrong.

LOL I'm done with this guy. 10.2 audio for the future? What an idiot.

ethan he didn't get ONE thing right.

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

ethan you better ask some people who've argued with me a while like Marzetta7. I don't quit easy.

He's stubborn as hell! Sounds like someone I know, hmmm, me maybe. Most likely, ol Murch won't stop praising HD DVD until Blu-ray has put them into an early grave after the 4th quarter or until Amir has a stroke or something.

In either case, we'll all have a lot to debate about as the months progress--but, not much more after the 4th quarter when Blu-ray leaves HD DVD kicked to the curb and buried in a dirt hole like Joe Pesci in Goodfellas. Hahaha...no, really I'm serious....JK.

[Psiweaver]

the a1 isn't that good an upconverting player. Trust me it doesn't hold a candle to some of the good ones. Many fan boys have touted that it looks amazing up converting but let me tell you when compared to other upconverting players it has way more artifacts and doesn't do a very good job with color accuracy.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

the a1 isn't that good an upconverting player. Trust me it doesn't hold a candle to some of the good ones. Many fan boys have touted that it looks amazing up converting but let me tell you when compared to other upconverting players it has way more artifacts and doesn't do a very good job with color accuracy.

I still love the fanboys that posted some link to another forum and cited it as gospel. The link to the forum was some fanboy waxing on about how Toshiba had somehow smuggled three to six grand worth of hi-fi audiophile and videophile grade equipment into their players.

I still see people citing that garbage to this day. All it was was a fanboy waxing poetic for an eternity and a handful of pictures.

It really was pathetic to even read.

[Zvi]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

let's see where Guido was right and wrong.

So, according to U he was all wrong? How about the statement that BR is a better format. U disagree on that one too?

The storage size has been proven to not be a limiting factor. Audio and supplements are superior to many Blu-Ray discs.

Blah blah... Dude, most of the HD DVD movies are over 20GB. FMJ is 32GB. The technology is already on its limits. How can you honestly say storage size is not a limiting factor? Let alone bitrate limit. So, what's your idea for longer movies? Split them in two like good old DVDs?

Consensus- Guido wrong.

Last time I checked consensus was something that everyone agreed upon. So far U seem to achieve consensus with yourself, congratz, but that doesn't count as consensus

Clearly he did not see Blu-Ray disc playing. It was proven that many BD displays were actually dummies and HD content was streaming off of a hard drive.

Mduh... For one, if the content is high PQ, what would prevent them storign those 30 or 40 mins of demo material on 25GB disc encoded in mpeg2 and play it? Or you honestly believe that BR discs have inherit defect and can't produce
good PQ?

Legacy support is important to alot of people. The A1 is lauded for it's upscaling ability.

Well, upscaling SD DVD is hardly a "legacy" support. Nice extra feature as upscaling is welcome, nobody would mind if their HD player could play laser discs for that matter, if it didn't affect price and performance.
Other than that you'r point is that back then DVD players should've supported VHS tapes too?

LOL I'm done with this guy. 10.2 audio for the future? What an idiot.

Why's that? Because U don't know what 10.2 audio is, or because U personally think it is not gonna be a future? He's not much of a future teller, but neither are you. BTW, U could check this one out 10.2 audio. Says there's already few places using it. I am sure decade or two ago there were guys like U who said the same about 5.1 and 7.1, but who cares, progress won't stop because of that. Oh, hold on, may be U predict 15.3 for the future?

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

1080p24 on the disc or output? The freely downloadable platform spec sheets (PDF) show the available storage formats.

I have only seen Amir says "HD content". Well, "HD content" starts at 720p. We just assume he's talking about (6.? hours of...) 1080p content. I have never seen him type the words 1080p in a statement about VC-1 and how much a 30GB HD-DVD disc will hold.

How well would HD-DVD 30GB discs do with LOTR with all the extras in 1080p and interactive games (sorry...HD-DVD can't do interactive games). It may or may not be ok with HD-DVD, but Blu-ray with BD-J is capable of a lot more. Why limit people?

[theknub]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

the a1 isn't that good an upconverting player. Trust me it doesn't hold a candle to some of the good ones. Many fan boys have touted that it looks amazing up converting but let me tell you when compared to other upconverting players it has way more artifacts and doesn't do a very good job with color accuracy.

out of curiosity, anyone been testing the sammy upconverting? i'm sure people have, but personally i thought it was pretty damn good (using lotr3, spiderman 2, and gladiator). we then put it head to head with a denon (forget the model) and while it wasn't as good, the denon was another 5 spot. so for 500 less, i got a blu-ray and a pretty darn good upconverting player.

[Psiweaver]

All the blu-ray and hd dvd players will do okay as far as upconverting but when run against full on upconverting players they don't perform very well.

[theknub]

didn't i just say that? was curious about other peoples impressions.

[ethan]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

ethan you better ask some people who've argued with me a while like Marzetta7. I don't quit easy.

You know, I like arguing, but you stopped arguing for a long time, if you ever did.

Some guy posted random toughts and you bring that up as tough it's some kind of argument that the guy was wrong on some points. it's not important in the discussion nor does it bring anything at all. There are no arguments in there.

Your latest posts fit nicely in the "Poisoning the Well" category and your are also blatantly changing the subject.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

All the blu-ray and hd dvd players will do okay as far as upconverting but when run against full on upconverting players they don't perform very well.

the bd-p1000 with the newer firmware did a better job in upconverting dvd's than my sony 5 disc dvpnc85h/b which up to then was the best i'd seen in upconversion....now the samsung is!

also many would argue that the hddvd upconvert is better than just about any standard upconvert player out there.

[theknub]

i haven't seen the hd-dvd upconverting. how does it stack against the sammy? like i said, i was throughly impressed with the sammy so far. anxious to see the "next wave" of players and their upconverting capabilities.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

In either case, we'll all have a lot to debate about as the months progress--but, not much more after the 4th quarter when Blu-ray leaves HD DVD kicked to the curb and buried in a dirt hole like Joe Pesci in Goodfellas. Hahaha...no, really I'm serious....JK.

hahahah this caused me to laugh out loud at work man. Keep up the good movie references. That's what it's really about ..the movies but good debate is stimulating as well.

Originally Posted by Zvi

So, according to U he was all wrong? How about the statement that BR is a better format. U disagree on that one too?

Blah blah... Dude, most of the HD DVD movies are over 20GB. FMJ is 32GB. The technology is already on its limits. How can you honestly say storage size is not a limiting factor? Let alone bitrate limit. So, what's your idea for longer movies?

Why's that? Because U don't know what 10.2 audio is, or because U personally think it is not gonna be a future? He's not much of a future teller, but neither are you. BTW, U could check this one out 10.2 audio.

Blu-Ray is the technically superior format. HD DVD is the better platform specification. My reasoning is this. Blu-Ray is amazing optical technology that is simply overkill for movie/game distribution. HD DVD marries the perfect blend of forward looking capabilities along with legacy support which keeps costs down and prevents fiasco like BD-ROM DL disc delays.

10.2 audio won't be added to the spec. You cannot add this midstream to the platform spec without obsoleting generations of hardware.

[Psiweaver]

I have seen the A1 put agains a very good Marantz, Pioneer Elite up converting players and the A1 really doesn't compete and that is on a set with all the same cables, inputs and adjustments. To me i'd get a nice upconverting player for watching my exsisting DVDs and then get a blu-ray or hd dvd player for my hi def content.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by ethan

You know, I like arguing, but you stopped arguing for a long time, if you ever did.

Some guy posted random toughts and you bring that up as tough it's some kind of argument that the guy was wrong on some points. it's not important in the discussion nor does it bring anything at all. There are no arguments in there.

Your latest posts fit nicely in the "Poisoning the Well" category and your are also blatantly changing the subject.

No I just like to highlight that on the web there is a history of your posts and that you are bound to them. Guido messed up then and it's been proven that he's wrong. I welcome the dissection of my posts as well because if I rid myself of blatant errors then I become that much closer to being error free.

I'm not really anti-Blu-Ray as much as I am anti-propaganda and both sides are flinging it. In the end supporting both formats initially is a small price to pay for watching HD material at DVD pricing.

[theknub]

just out of curiosity, how is bd-rom dl disc delays a fiasco at this point? the format is barely off the ground without even a "true launch." fiasco is the first rd of sony discs (according to some.. haven't witnessed the problem first hand).

the beauty, as you stated, is the truly awesome ability of the optics. this is forward thinking. as with any new technology, there will be delays that were simply unforseen.

remember, DVD is a 10-13 yr old technology that has matured and comparably long in the tooth to the new vision. it won't encounter the same issues inherent with new equipment from a manufacturing standpoint. the fiasco will occur when the full launch occurs and studios still put out crap.

and if we're talking simply legacy support, doesn't blu-ray still play your good old dvd collection?