X-Men Cinematic Universe

[Miraculous Ladybug]

Originally Posted by Astro Zombie

Maybe she'll put some effort into it this time

Effort? Jennifer Lawrence? How's that possible?!

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Spidey-Penguin

Effort? Jennifer Lawrence? How's that possible?!

It's possible a HELL of a lot easier than you putting even the slightest effort into ... well pretty much anything. Including a bowel movement.

Actually ...

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

I thought we agreed to not talk about it! Unless it's in a good way.

[Darkstream]

Legion Showrunner Says Show Won’t Include ‘Iconic’ X-Men Characters


http://screenrant.com/legion-x-men-t...ey-characters/

Along with the boom of superhero properties being adapted to film and television, shared universes based on comic book characters have increased in number on both the big and small screens. The CW has their ever-expanding DC Comics TV universe, which is kept separate from Warner Bros’ DC Comics Extended Universe, while ABC’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Netflix’s Defenders shows are all part of the larger Marvel Cinematic Universe. Now, 20th Century Fox is branching out from their X-Men universe to include the television series Legion.

Along with FX and Marvel Television, Legion was developed for TV by Noah Hawley (Fargo) who will serve as showrunner for the series. Legion will follow Marvel Comics character David Haller (Dan Stevens) a.k.a. Legion, a mutant with a form of multiple personality disorder in which each of his personalities has their own abilities. Now, Hawley has discussed the process of bringing Legion to life and how the show relates to the X-Men movies as well as the character’s comic book history.

In an interview with HitFix, Hawley said Legion is “a standalone kind of thing,” confirming previous comments from FX president John Landgraff that the series won’t share the same universe as the X-Men films.

Additionally, Hawley commented on the fact that the character of Legion isn’t as well-known or iconic within the history of X-Men as heroes like Professor X, Wolverine, or Storm:

“Yeah, it’s none of the iconic characters from the movie franchise. I think that’s a strength on some level, because those characters come with rules. It’s hard. You don’t want to be handcuffed, when you’re trying to explore something. The power of making something unpredictable is really an important thing to preserve.”

Certainly, as we’ve seen in recent years with television and movie universes sharing, or not sharing, characters – such as the disconnect between the different aspects of the MCU or The CW’s version of The Flash compared to the DCEU’s upcoming film following the same superhero – there can be pitfalls to adapting certain comic book properties. But, as Hawley indicates, differentiating Legion from the X-Men universe could allow the show more freedom to explore their own world, rather than be caught up in the X-Universe.

Still, comic book fans will likely wonder how Legion can avoid iconic X-Men characters when David Haller is the son of one of the most recognizable Marvel heroes, Professor Charles Xavier. According to Hawley, Legion may not necessarily abandon that particular storyline, saying, “He could be. It’s a different story, but I’m not ruling that out.” So, it seems even if Legion does adapt that aspect of the David Haller character, it will be an entirely different version than that which has appeared in Fox’s X-Men movies.


Speaking more to the tone of the show, Hawley said Legion isn’t rooted in any particular time period, unlike the most recent three X-Men movies, which have taken place in the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s:

“It’s a little more of a fable in my mind. If you were to say, “Where is it, and when is it?,” it’s not exactly clear, I think. And a lot of it is because [David Haller’s] not exactly clear. It’s the world as perceived subjectively on some level. The recent X-Men movies, starting with First Class, are rooted in a time period and a world and playing with history in interesting ways. This isn’t doing that.”

Hawley’s comments fall in line with what he previously said about Legion being a surreal story, with viewers left feeling unsure about different aspects of the world because of the main character’s somewhat shaky grasp on reality. Certainly, as Hawley’s most recent comments on Legion indicate, the X-Men-inspired series may revolved on comic book superheroes, but it will be taking the property in a new – and hopefully compelling – direction.

[toddly6666]

I'm going through all the X-Men movies again and goddamn - First Class is pretty damn incredible! When I first watched the movie in the theater, I thought it was good. The second time on video - pretty good. And now the third time time a couple years later, damn this is a really powerful film. Fassbender is one amazing actor. I know he's had enough movies to shine and he doesnt need to be in future X-Men films, but his Magneto has been so well written and his emotions are phenomenal. A brilliant actor and I hope Assassins Creed is a huge success. And of course Macovey and Lawrence are amazing too. Those sick of J Law should just watch First Class again to remind oneself that she is part of this emotionally powerful trio of Xavier, Magneto and Mystique. If you watch First Class, you cant just simply say J Law's Mystique has to disappear from these movies. She's integral. I know it's not like in the comic books but she is an important character in these X-Men movies whether you like it or not.

[Jennifer Lawrence Fan]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

I'm going through all the X-Men movies again and goddamn - First Class is pretty damn incredible! When I first watched the movie in the theater, I thought it was good. The second time on video - pretty good. And now the third time time a couple years later, damn this is a really powerful film. Fassbender is one amazing actor. I know he's had enough movies to shine and he doesnt need to be in future X-Men films, but his Magneto has been so well written and his emotions are phenomenal. A brilliant actor and I hope Assassins Creed is a huge success. And of course Macovey and Lawrence are amazing too. Those sick of J Law should just watch First Class again to remind oneself that she is part of this emotionally powerful trio of Xavier, Magneto and Mystique. If you watch First Class, you cant just simply say J Law's Mystique has to disappear from these movies. She's integral. I know it's not like in the comic books but she is an important character in these X-Men movies whether you like it or not.

Well said about the last part. It's all three of their stories. What they were doing is trying to set her apart from the original one.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Lawrence Fan

Well said about the last part. It's all three of their stories. What they were doing is trying to set her apart from the original one.

Lawrence's Mystique is also the most developed female superhero character yet. It's disrespectful to just say "she gets too much focus, let's put her in background." Go through ever superhero movie and all the female characters are barely developed - black widow, Storm, Invisible woman, Rogue, Jean Grey, Scarlet Witch, Sif, Catwoman, etc. Even the non-powered ones are not fleshed out: Mary Jane, Gwen Stacey, Pepper Potts, Lois Lane, etc.

J. Law's Mystique deserves more respect because she is the most developed female superhero on screen yet.

[matirocker]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Lawrence's Mystique is also the most developed female superhero character yet. It's disrespectful to just say "she gets too much focus, let's put her in background." .

Hum, I haven't been complaining, but I'm pretty sure the people saying that do it because Mystique was never a major character... you make it sound like they're complaining because it's a woman.... which is not the case I hope. How is it disrespectful? If instead of Mystique, it would be a man that was secondary in the comics, Im pretty sure people would be complaining the same, specially if they didn't find the performance to be good

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Lawrence's Mystique is also the most developed female superhero character yet. It's disrespectful to just say "she gets too much focus, let's put her in background." Go through ever superhero movie and all the female characters are barely developed - black widow, Storm, Invisible woman, Rogue, Jean Grey, Scarlet Witch, Sif, Catwoman, etc. Even the non-powered ones are not fleshed out: Mary Jane, Gwen Stacey, Pepper Potts, Lois Lane, etc.

J. Law's Mystique deserves more respect because she is the most developed female superhero on screen yet.

Couldn't agree more. We have to remember there is still a lot of sexism in Hollywood (and sometimes among audiences too - witness how some people reacted to the new Ghostbusters).

Luckily, there are some positive signs - Star Wars is a strong enough franchise it can have a female protagonist and be wildly successful at the same time. And on the small screen, we may see more shows like Supergirl and Agent Carter, enjoying varying degrees of success.

[ArrestedDevelopment]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Lawrence's Mystique is also the most developed female superhero character yet. It's disrespectful to just say "she gets too much focus, let's put her in background." Go through ever superhero movie and all the female characters are barely developed - black widow, Storm, Invisible woman, Rogue, Jean Grey, Scarlet Witch, Sif, Catwoman, etc. Even the non-powered ones are not fleshed out: Mary Jane, Gwen Stacey, Pepper Potts, Lois Lane, etc.

J. Law's Mystique deserves more respect because she is the most developed female superhero on screen yet.

Her character arc wasn't portrayed well. She kept going on about being mutant and proud yet she did little to show it (e.g. being her true blue self for 5 min in Apocalypse). Her lines and writing was weak and JLaw's delivery was even weaker so she came off quite dull and flat. It's no surprise that many weren't fond of her and would rather see the spotlight shine on another character, female or not.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

I'm going through all the X-Men movies again and goddamn - First Class is pretty damn incredible! When I first watched the movie in the theater, I thought it was good. The second time on video - pretty good. And now the third time time a couple years later, damn this is a really powerful film. Fassbender is one amazing actor. I know he's had enough movies to shine and he doesnt need to be in future X-Men films, but his Magneto has been so well written and his emotions are phenomenal. A brilliant actor and I hope Assassins Creed is a huge success. And of course Macovey and Lawrence are amazing too. Those sick of J Law should just watch First Class again to remind oneself that she is part of this emotionally powerful trio of Xavier, Magneto and Mystique. If you watch First Class, you cant just simply say J Law's Mystique has to disappear from these movies. She's integral. I know it's not like in the comic books but she is an important character in these X-Men movies whether you like it or not.

I agree with everything, except that last part.

Mystique is only integral because they made her that way for the second trilogy. Of course, she can't just disappear -- unless they kill her, which is what I would have liked to have seen in Apocalypse -- not because I dislike her character, but because her death would have brought more weight to the story and closure to her part in the second trilogy by making her a mutant martyr. As it turns out, she did live, and now they're using her to train the new X-Men, which I understand, but I do hope they don't focus on her as much with the upcoming films.

As a matter of fact, I think it's time to give less attention to Charles and Magneto, as well as Mystique, and more time to developing Cyclops, Jean and Storm properly, as well as introduce another enemy that doesn't straddle the fence like Mystique and Magneto has -- it's time for something Sinister.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by matirocker

Hum, I haven't been complaining, but I'm pretty sure the people saying that do it because Mystique was never a major character... you make it sound like they're complaining because it's a woman.... which is not the case I hope. How is it disrespectful? If instead of Mystique, it would be a man that was secondary in the comics, Im pretty sure people would be complaining the same, specially if they didn't find the performance to be good

Plus she was primarily a villain, where as they've made her into a hero in this most recent film.

I also can't help but feel that direction has more to do with that fact that Jennifer Lawrence's star has risen between the time she did First Class and now.

For the record, I have nothing against Jennifer Lawrence, herself, and I think she's a good actress.

Her character might be developed, and that's good to an extent, but in other ways not so much, more so from a continuity standpoint.

While First Class is a good movie on it's own merrits, it was a mess in regards to the continuity of the films that came before it. One aspect being the personal brother/sister like relationship between Mystique and Charles, which is never mentioned or hinted at in the original trilogy. Charles and Mystique seem to be little more than aware of each other's existence in those films. And I don't believe such a relationship ever existed in the comics or any previous canon. I'm not a super-stickler for everything to be JUST like the comics (honestly most of my knowledge of them is more general, with a lot of gaps), but keeping some basic aspects in tact is preferable IMO.

Days of Future Past was a clever way to keep Mystique in the forefront. Though the movie was an adaptation of a comic story with a lot of differences, one of the parts that was consistent was Mystique being a part of the plot. So they were able to adapt a story that allowed Lawrence's character to be a big part of the plot, which made sense. And this and X2 are my two favorite X-Men movies.

But the direction of her character in X-Men Apocalypse is very "on the nose" IMO with the fact that Jennifer Lawrence is playing the part, and she is now a big star. Not only has her character (who has in most incarnations been a B or C list character at best) been brought into the forefront, but the reconnected it to make her a hero... one of the actual X-Men.

This IMO is clearly a direction that they wouldn't have taken if it hadn't been for Lawrence becoming as big of a star as she now is. And again, I have nothing directly against her, but I'm not really thrilled that the basic core concepts of established characters from a long running established franchise being retconned to this extent all because of the popularity of the actor who has happened to be playing the role since before they were as popular as they are now.

I didn't hate the most recent X-Men movie, and aside from my issues with the direction of her character, I was otherwise fine with Lawrence's performance, but the fact that they were flat out shoving this character to the forefront due to the actress's popularity stuck out like a sore thumb IMO.

[toddly6666]

Mystique was part of the trio in First Class regardless of it being J Law or not. She had been an important factor in First Class and DOFP - to have her in the background in Apocalypse would not make sense.

Just because J. Law is famous it doesnt mean that the X-Men movies have revolved around her because she's J. Law. Halle Berry won an oscar for Best Actress in Monster's Ball and Fox didnt make X-Men 2 and Last Stand revolve around Storm then.

[ArrestedDevelopment]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Just because J. Law is famous it doesnt mean that the X-Men movies have revolved around her because she's J. Law. Halle Berry won an oscar for Best Actress in Monster's Ball and Fox didnt make X-Men 2 and Last Stand revolve around Storm then.

It absolutely does. Don't think for a minute that the studio didn't whisper in the writers ears, telling them them to spruce up her role. She sells tickets so of course they would make her a major player in the story.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by ArrestedDevelopment

It absolutely does. Don't think for a minute that the studio didn't whisper in the writers ears, telling them them to spruce up her role. She sells tickets so of course they would make her a major player in the story.

Of course but she is part of the trio still. First Class, DOFP and Apocalypse all focus on the trio - Xavier, Magneto and Mystique. Her role was smaller in Apocalypse but why would she not be part of the trio anymore? She'll probably join Magneto at Genosa Island in one of the next films.

[Elbie]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Mystique was part of the trio in First Class regardless of it being J Law or not. She had been an important factor in First Class and DOFP - to have her in the background in Apocalypse would not make sense.

Just because J. Law is famous it doesnt mean that the X-Men movies have revolved around her because she's J. Law. Halle Berry won an oscar for Best Actress in Monster's Ball and Fox didnt make X-Men 2 and Last Stand revolve around Storm then.

Actually if I can recall Halle complained abou wanting more to do and well she did.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Elbie

Actually if I can recall Halle complained abou wanting more to do and well she did.

What did she do? She just stands around and sometimes causes weather changes.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Mystique was part of the trio in First Class regardless of it being J Law or not. She had been an important factor in First Class and DOFP - to have her in the background in Apocalypse would not make sense.

Just because J. Law is famous it doesnt mean that the X-Men movies have revolved around her because she's J. Law. Halle Berry won an oscar for Best Actress in Monster's Ball and Fox didnt make X-Men 2 and Last Stand revolve around Storm then.

What happened in First Class wasn't because of her fame (she wasn't that famous yet at the time). That was just some questionable retconning that happened there, though it wasn't the only example of it (others include Xavier being paralyzed by the end of the movie and him and Magneto being enemies, despite the fact that in X3, as bad of a movie as it was, they were shown as older, still being friends and Xavier still walking, when they went to bring Jean Gray to the school). This is what I meant in my last post when I said that First Class is good on it's own merits, but is a mess with regards to continuity with the previous films.

But by the time DOFP came alone, she was more famous. They just happened to choose a plot that her character was central to in the comics.

Having her not only up front an center, but on part of the heroes side in the most recent film is absolutely because of her fame.

She didn't necessarily have to take a "back seat." They easily could have made her one of the horsemen for Apocalypse (perhaps replacing storm) though it likely would have required her to be in the blue make up for more often.


Halle Berry really isn't a good comparison. Sure, she was already famous, but her Oscar win wasn't really a "game changer." She won an Oscar for a small movie that cost $4 million to make and went on to gross $45 million at the box office. Certainly an excellent return on the investment, but it wasn't exactly record breaking by any means.

I'm sure the audience that saw it on average enjoyed the movie, but she mainly appealed to critics and the type of people who vote on the Oscars. She wasn't exactly appealing to the same type of young people en mass that Lawrence has with films like the Hunger Games series, which were box office gold. Lawrence had that going for her AND roles that were winning over critics and the like, including winning an Oscar of her own.

Between the release of X-Men in 2000 and X3 in 2006, outside of this franchise, the highest grossing movies that Halle Berry was in were Die Another Day and the animated film Robots. In one she was the random and easily replaceable "Bond girl," and the other was just voice over work. And nothing that she did in all of the years between X3 and DOFP really set the box office "on fire." I have nothing against Halle Berry, but I'm just looking at the situation for what it is with regards to how the "Hollywood game" typically works.


Besides, I seem to recall hearing about Berry pushing for more screen time in X3 as a condition of her return. And she was pretty prominent in it. The difference was that she was already a hero, so it wasn't like her character did a 180 like Mystique in X-Men Apocalypse. And even if Berry had done a 180 (which she didn't), it still would have been far from the worst thing about X3. Heck, they killed off so many "good guys" in that movie in addition to Jean turning evil (until she later dies herself) that they kind of had to give Berry more screen time because they were low on heroes.

[KenHurd]

Storm has been the leader of the X-Men in some of the comics, too. So for her to take the lead in X-Men: The Last Stand after Cyclops and Charles died, it made sense.

I've recently been watching the movies in chronological order (First Class, Origins, X1-3, Wolverine, DOFP), and I've found that the story actually flows pretty well in this order. By watching the movies in chronological order, it puts Wolverine front and center for the majority of it, and it spaces out First Class and DOFP. We first see Mystique in First Class where at the end she goes with Magnento, and 30 or so years pass before we see her again in the first X-Men. It makes sense that after spending all this time working with Magneto, that she would be the villain we know from the original trilogy. DOFP mentions how Magneto set her on the path of becoming who she was, but by the end, Charles gets her to go on a different path.

So, in my opinion, it makes sense that she would do things differently after the events of DOFP. Originally, she was captured and experimented on, and that fueled her hatred for humans. Since none of that happened, her future should change.

I think that the trailers for X-Men Apocalypse were a bit misleading. Mystique wasn't really an X-Man in that movie. She was on her own, but after Apocalypse attacked the mansion and took Charles, it was up to just a handful of kids to stop an immortal mutant who was determined to destroy the world. Sure, Hank could have lead the team, but it made sense that Mystique would try to help the remaining X-Men defeat Apocalypse. She didn't become an X-Man until the end of the movie.

And I'm okay with how it played out. Sure, Mystique has always been a villain in the comics, but the movies aren't the comics. And villains have become X-Men in the comics. For example, Emma Frost went from being a villain to leading an X-Men team with Banshee (Generation X).

[Darkstream]

It seems a certain controversy about Bryan Singer is rearing its ugly head again in the news. Could be true, could be total b.s., or just someone feeding into rumors and talking smack, but fans have only to wonder if the shadow it casts will affect Singer's involvement with any future X-Men films.