Is Anybody Ever Going To Ask About Dts-hd Ma For The Ps3???

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by frenchglen

Thanks very much for that insight.

Well there you go folks, maybe later versions of PS3s will have a chip for bitstreaming, but for all the millions of us who already have it, decoding is the way to go and it is a simple matter of Sony updating the firmware and adding the software decoders in.

I reckon that it will come in after the first standalone player comes to market with it. At least one has been announced at CES so fingers crossed.

I would say you will not get it after the first standalone that ships. Since the first one should be the Denons. And since they are so much more I would think it will have to wait until the new Panasonic hits. Then again that is just my opinion.

[Carmien]

Makes me happy that I got my PS3 thrown in for free.

I'm into HT and Games. I'm playing uncharted right now on an 52" XBR5 and I have to say that the gamer in me is thrilled. Outstanding experience!

At the same time I'm a huge DVD fan. I'm also investing in 7.1 speakers and my ES5300 as a part of a basement reno. Based on the excellent post by Ron (thanks) I think that it comes down to ability and will. If you've got the ability (aka cash) to get a standalone that will pass HDMA then you will.

At the same time the nice thing is that if you don't care enough to have speakers 6 and 7 give you something on HDMA then at least there's hope.

But I do agree - some word either way would be nice. However, I also appreciate the business reason for withholding this info. As a potential buyer I'll likely buy a standalone because of that ability and will I was talking about. If Sony upped and said 3 months I'd likely wait (even if it turned into 6). Mainly because there'd be a finish line in sight.

So, I might not like it but the business person in me gets this game. It's quite brilliant really, albeit in a disgustingly profit driven way.

[ronjones]

Originally Posted by frenchglen

Welcome to br.com by the way Ron!

Thanks.

[kitkat99]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Can anyone point me to a quick distinction between all the audio formats? I don't have a surround system, and DTS-HD MA, PCM, Dolby TrueHD, etc. have me a bit confused.

By the sound of it, DTS-HD MA is the only uncompressed audio, but the back of my Pirates discs say English 5.1 Uncompressed. What's the difference?

Start off by going to dts.com, and then dolbydigital.com,


uncompressed 5.1-7.1 means that it is not compressed like a normal dvd, blue ray/hddvd hols megs more info, i would say that dtshd and dolbly true hd are a form of uncompressed but better, maybe megs better.

[DrasticPlastic]

Originally Posted by kitkat99

...the ps3 is not capable of sending 7.1 ch on pcm, only 5.1 sorry.... I only hope that ps3 has some kind of update to allow bitstream pass thorugh, only then will we get true 7.1.

You are incorrect, the PS3 does do 7.1 PCM over HDMI, I am able to get it when I play Uncharted, there is even an option for it in the audio menu in the game, and my receiver lights up all 7.1 flags, maybe you don't have it turned on your ps3 setup, but it for sure does do it.

[DrasticPlastic]

Originally Posted by frenchglen

I can't believe what I'm hearing on this thread.

People are not aware of how this technology works, and what the OP was actually asking about.

The fact that a lot of people here on BD.com aren't clear about it is alarming to me.

What we need is DECODING, *NOT* Bitstream passthrough.

DECODING (in the BD player) means that the Blu-ray Player decodes it into STANDARD PCM, which is what EVERY HDMI receiver out there can support, which is A LOT OF RECEIVERS. including my own beloved Pioneer, which I don't want to waste the money upgrading.

It's BITSTREAM that only a small number of receivers (with HDMI 1.3) can benefit from.

Thank you, you saved me a lot of typing That is what people don't seem to understand, but it can be confusing unless you have a good grasp on it.

How about all the Fox titles? And New Line? And future releases? When Universal comes on board, they will probably use it too, because their Gladiator DVD uses DTS 6.1, one of the handful of DVD titles to do so.

We need DTS-HD MA decoding support NOW.

Calms down...

Thank you, you just saved me a lot of typing ... That is what most people don't get, and it's understandable unless you have a firm grasp on this stuff.

[ronjones]

One of the members on the AVS forum has reported talking to a rep at the DTS booth at CES2008 and they confirmed that they are working with Sony on a DTS HD-MA software decoder for the PS3 and implied that Sony is pressing for them to finsh the software development soon.

[Bullseye]

Not another DTS HD thread. There are more of these than there are WB threads

[quetzalcoatl]

Sorry but the people without a firm grap are all those that are yelling to get it. Right now there is not a standalone that has it. So until then we just need to wait. He is more proof that is the case.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2514

This is just the latest from a insider on the matter.

[unreal1080p]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

While dts-hd-ma would be nice, only less than 5% of ps3 owners probably have the equipment to pass dts-hd-ma.

To 95% of the ppl out there dts-hd-ma support for the ps3 is worthless.

I completely dissagree. The requirements to hear DTS-HD MA with the PS3 are the SAME requirements that exist to hear both Dolby True HD and Uncompressed PCM audio: An A/V receiver that accepts Uncompressed PCM audio via HDMI.

Both Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA (eventually) get decoded internally and sent as Uncompressed PCM audio via HDMI.

You DO NOT need an a/v receiver capable of decoding Dolby True HD and/or DTS-HD MA... all you need is one capable of accepting Uncompressed PCM audio via HDMI and there are PLENTY of those a/v receivers out there.

Out of the percentage of users that actually use their PS3 to also view Blu-Ray movies, there are A LOT MORE then 5% of them who are waiting for this.

With all the CES 2008 announced high end Blu-Ray players capable of internally decoding DTS-HD MA, IMHO, we should see the PS3 firmware update no later then September (further boosting it's sales appeal for the all important Q4). BD-Live or Profile 2.0 firmware is probably coming in a matter of days to coincide with the January 22nd release of the first title using the features: SAW IV.
The features have allready been demonstrated on a PS3 at the CES:

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/ces2008/10707saw4/

[mediaguy]

Bring on PS3 internal decoding of all next gen audio codecs! The DTS "core" audio on many Blu-ray discs is very impressive as it is so the real deal of DTS Master Audio decoded into up-to 7.1 channels of LPCM output via HDMI makes my ears tingle in anticipation.

I'm sure the BDA manufacturers will eventually conspire (in a non-evil way) to maneuver BD players to more commonly pass-thru via bitstream all the next gen audio tracks to cash in on us all buying new matching Audio/Video Receivers that accept the HDMI pass-thru bitstream data and decode and "enhance" the audio channels with surround effects .... which was of some value for very-lossy low bit-rate DVD audio tracks but, in my opinion, is just generally marketing fluff for receivers.

[kitkat99]

DTS-MA and DDTrueHD does sound more dynamic than the LPCM. What you really want is the rcvr to do all the decoding. Im sorry that people went and bought non hdmi 1.3rcvrs but that is really what you need. yes they cost more, but only with HDMI 1.3, not 1.2 on the old rcvrs that can handle lpcm only will not get 8discrete channels,

I like DTS-MA much more than the other 2 formats, i think it sound better.ALso i am so concerened im getting the proper sound , i also like to see it displaying the proper format on my rcvr, not just multichnl.

also bitstreaming a lossless codec from the player is better than sending uncompressed lpcm from the player because of possible judder

TrueHD can indeed be better than PCM, if the former is decoded in the AVR. But briefly, if you decode PCM in the player, then you have to send it over long cables, slave to video clock on HDMI. Then the signal travels from that port through HDMI transceiver, buffer, etc. eventually to the DAC. Every step along the way then is an opportunity for jitter to be induced/increased.

In case of sending over the TrueHD bitstream to AVR, it can remain as "data" immune to any jitter until the last moment before the DAC. Of course, one can do serious damage in this short link just the same . But assuming good design, compressed streams can in theory sound better to folks who can hear jitter artifacts..."

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by kitkat99

DTS-MA and DDTrueHD does sound more dynamic than the LPCM. What you really want is the rcvr to do all the decoding. Im sorry that people went and bought non hdmi 1.3rcvrs but that is really what you need. yes they cost more, but only with HDMI 1.3, not 1.2 on the old rcvrs that can handle lpcm only will not get 8discrete channels,

I like DTS-MA much more than the other 2 formats, i think it sound better.ALso i am so concerened im getting the proper sound , i also like to see it displaying the proper format on my rcvr, not just multichnl.

also bitstreaming a lossless codec from the player is better than sending uncompressed lpcm from the player because of possible judder

TrueHD can indeed be better than PCM, if the former is decoded in the AVR. But briefly, if you decode PCM in the player, then you have to send it over long cables, slave to video clock on HDMI. Then the signal travels from that port through HDMI transceiver, buffer, etc. eventually to the DAC. Every step along the way then is an opportunity for jitter to be induced/increased.

In case of sending over the TrueHD bitstream to AVR, it can remain as "data" immune to any jitter until the last moment before the DAC. Of course, one can do serious damage in this short link just the same . But assuming good design, compressed streams can in theory sound better to folks who can hear jitter artifacts..."

...care to take a wild guess where Dolby TrueHD and Dts-HD Master come from?

(heres a hint...they are 'compressed' versions of ---?)

[crackinhedz]

Bitstream versus PCM debate for high-density compact disc

"Jitter sensitivity

In investigating the requirements of a high-resolution audio system, it is evident that jitter performance is paramount - an area already given wide discussion in the technical literature. A bitstream code that simultaneously contains high-amplitude and high-frequency noise is susceptible to jitter - where intermodulation with timing jitter can fold signal energy into the audio band and thus compromise performance. In this area, it is believed that bitstream is inherently more jitter-susceptible than multi-bit systems."

"We consider that these advantages of PCM far outweigh the basic advantages of bitstream and we therefore recommend a losslessly-packed linear PCM system to you for formal adoption."

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

(heres a hint...they are 'compressed' versions of ---?)

The Receiver "decodes" Dts-HD MA back into PCM.


"Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are "lossless" compression formats. Although they're compressed to take up less disc space than a PCM track, once decoded they're also bit-for-bit identical to their sources. Think of this like a ZIP file that holds a PCM track. Once you unZIP the file, you get a 100% identical copy of the original PCM"

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by kitkat99

Im sorry that people went and bought non hdmi 1.3rcvrs but that is really what you need. yes they cost more, but only with HDMI 1.3, not 1.2 on the old rcvrs that can handle lpcm only will not get 8discrete channels

HDMI 1.1 (and higher) Receivers are capable of 8 "discrete" channel PCM.

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

you gotta be kiding me. Home will sell consoles, people see that and go, wow! thats neat I wanna ps3.

Doubtful. Home is a kludge that doesn't seem to know what it really wants to be and as such will suffer from trying to be too many things to too many audiences. It'll see some audience if the price is right (read "free") but it's not going to be a killer app that increases PS3 sales by a significant fraction.

But the biggest problem with something like Home is that it becomes a kludge as management continually shifts and changes what, precisely, it is supposed to be. Projects like that are black holes for development resources. You could literally throw hundreds of coders and managers at a project like that and never finish. Go ahead, ask me how I know ....

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

BD-Live will sell players, people see that and go, wow! thats neat I wanna ps3.

Again, doubtful. Almost no one uses the auxilliary features on their DVDs now and there's not reason to believe that if the features were made just a bit cooler they'd suddenly become system-selling killer apps. Implementation of Bonus View and Live would be useful to kill off HD DVD FUD but since that format is essentially dead now there's no rush.

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

how many consumers have actually ever heard dts-hd-ma being played, a lot less than have seen the above things..

I'd say you're off base here as well. Has *ANYBODY* not connected to Sony actually seen Home? How about non-CES attendees who've seen BD-Live? Pretty much zero on both counts since actual consumers have had no access at all to either to date. The numbers exposed to DTS HD-MA will be small but greater than zero.

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

...but sony is going to work on the things that gets the ps3 over the 360 first.

LOL! Spoken like someone who has never participated in a product development cycle. It's a question of resources: Home = massive resource requirement; BD-Live = very large resource requirement; implementation of internal decoding of DTS HD-MA = maybe two embedded systems guys for a couple of weeks for the core code.

Besides, Home is not a deficiency. BD-Live, given the lack of available titles is similarly not a deficiency. Fox, an unwavering Blu-ray supporter from day one, has chosen DTS HD-MA as the sole lossless audio format for 100% of their releases; hence a lack of DTS HD-MA decoding capability in upwards of 75% of all in-home Blu-ray playback devices (in other words "all PS3s") *IS* a glaring deficiency.

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

only the hardcore home theater enthusist has ever looked at a ps3 and said, im not getting that because it doesn't support dts-hd-ma.

Straw man and not a particularly good one. No one ever looked at a PS3 and said, "I'm going to buy a Wii because Home isn't available yet." Similarly no one sane ever looked at a PS3 and said, "I'm going to buy a standalone because BD-Live isn't available on the PS3 yet." See how easy this is?

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

the majority of ps3 owners don't even know what dts-hd-ma is, and the others that do, the vast majority of them don't have the equipment to pass dts-hd-ma, and the others that have a ps3 with a sound system that supports dts-hd-ma i feel like would want bd-live, home, and great games more than imporved audio.

Again, you're off base. Any PS3 owner using the HDMI connection and PCM audio can immediately make use of DTS HD-MA internal decoding on the PS3 and will experience improved sound quality whether they realize it or not since all Fox titles seem to default to DTS HD-MA as the preferred audio format. So whether they know it or not PS3 owners will benefit from the minimal investment required to bring DTS HD-MA audio to the PS3.

Of course this thread is somewhat moot since we've recently heard that the decision to withold DTS HD-MA is political and not technical in nature.

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

Of course this thread is somewhat moot since we've recently heard that the decision to withold DTS HD-MA is political and not technical in nature.

Actually, I've learned a few things from this thread:

• Sony has asked DTS to quickly finish the solution for DTS-HD MA decoding for the PS3. (Why they are in such a hurry, I don't know. It would seem to be they wouldn't be in such a rush if they were waiting on other CE manufactures to release something.)
• Sony will not release the DTS-HD MA decoding solution until other CE manufactures have implemented the feature as well for political reasons. (which you stated).
• The PS3 may or may not be able to pass uncompressed 7.1 through HDMI to a receiver. I'm more willing to believe that it CAN because I, too, have Uncharted and, although I currently only have 5.1 channels, I'd like to know that I can upgrade and take advantage of 7.1 lossless audio from the PS3 and Blu-ray movies/games.

[Pellaeon]

Originally Posted by jag2007

I can do with out bd live. I want DTS HD-MA and I want it now!!

Me too me too!

[CHA1N5]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

Actually, I've learned a few things from this thread:

• The PS3 may or may not be able to pass uncompressed 7.1 through HDMI to a receiver.

Please, ckenisell and everyone, take note: the PS3 CAN and DOES currently pass 7.1. There simply isn't a great deal of source material today. Resistance, for instance, is in 7.1 LPCM.