Lord of the Rings and Warner audio discussion (split from LotR megathread)

[bases1616]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

Even though they won't be the EE's, here's hoping the lossless audio is at least 6.1.

Don't bet on it with Warner in charge. Knowing them we will get a lazy 5.1 DTHD 16-bit track. LOTR deserves a full 6.1 or 7.1 DTHD or DTS-HD MA 24-bit lossless audio track.

[DaViD Boulet]

With Dialog Normalization of course...

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by bases1616

Don't bet on it with Warner in charge. Knowing them we will get a lazy 5.1 DTHD 16-bit track. LOTR deserves a full 6.1 or 7.1 DTHD or DTS-HD MA 24-bit lossless audio track.

Yeah, that's what I am afraid of.

[AintNoSin]

Originally Posted by bases1616

Don't bet on it with Warner in charge.

Why does everyone assume that Warner is going to half-ass the LOTR Blu-rays like they do ordinary movies? Doesn't Peter Jackson have a lot more to say about it than the average producer and director?

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by AintNoSin

Why does everyone assume that Warner is going to half-ass the LOTR Blu-rays like they do ordinary movies? Doesn't Peter Jackson have a lot more to say about it than the average producer and director?

Because, historically, Warner is the worst studio for releasing quality Blu-Rays and becuase PJ's involvement with the non-EE's is questionable. I think he's more interested in seeing the EE's done right.

The original DVD's were done right because they were New Line releases. Now that Warner has taken over New Line, they're pretty much expected to give us the smallest amount of quality and features as possible.

[ajmrowland]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

Because, historically, Warner is the worst studio for releasing quality Blu-Rays and becuase PJ's involvement with the non-EE's is questionable. I think he's more interested in seeing the EE's done right.

The original DVD's were done right because they were New Line releases. Now that Warner has taken over New Line, they're pretty much expected to give us the smallest amount of quality and features as possible.

That argument works for Speed Racer, but for LOTR, it's just BS!

[bases1616]

Originally Posted by AintNoSin

Why does everyone assume that Warner is going to half-ass the LOTR Blu-rays like they do ordinary movies? Doesn't Peter Jackson have a lot more to say about it than the average producer and director?

You would hope so, but look at Dark Knight. The audio could of been so much better with an DTHD 24-bit instead of the lazy 16-bit. Most of all the other studio's now are using the top notch audio for all there movies. Universal, Fox, Lionsgate, Paramount and Disney. All are using DTHD or DTS-HD MA 24-bit audio tracks.

We are all hoping Warner does not screw this up. If New Line was still on there own you know we would be getting 6.1 or 7.1 DTS-HD MA.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by bases1616

You would hope so, but look at Dark Knight. The audio could of been so much better with an DTHD 24-bit instead of the lazy 16-bit. Most of all the other studio's now are using the top notch audio for all there movies. Universal, Fox, Lionsgate, Paramount and Disney. All are using DTHD or DTS-HD MA 24-bit audio tracks.

We are all hoping Warner does not screw this up. If New Line was still on there own you know we would be getting 6.1 or 7.1 DTS-HD MA.

16 bit TrueHD vs DTS-MA 24 bit SO much better??? I think not. I would be willing to bet NOBODY would be able to hear a dif between these two in a double blind. I sure hope we get the latter just for good measure, but the reality is there will be no real world dif IMO.

[Riff Magnum]

I agree and, to be honest, i'm sick of hearing people diss the speed racer audio. Yes, it was lazy to not include a lossless track, but most of the people complaining probably haven't even heard the darn thing. I think it sounds pretty rocking and i'm in the minority of actually liking the movie, but i totally digress.

[bases1616]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I agree and, to be honest, i'm sick of hearing people diss the speed racer audio. Yes, it was lazy to not include a lossless track, but most of the people complaining probably haven't even heard the darn thing. I think it sounds pretty rocking and i'm in the minority of actually liking the movie, but i totally digress.

You can agrue all you want about the audio, but the bottomline is Speed Raccer was dying for a lossless audio track. I did watch it on my 7.1 audio system and Speed Racer was lacking with the lack of lossless.

The audio is just as an important as the video on these BD's. Universal, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, and Fox are showing you how good the audio can be. Warner just needs to jump on aboard and learn some things from them.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I agree and, to be honest, i'm sick of hearing people diss the speed racer audio. Yes, it was lazy to not include a lossless track, but most of the people complaining probably haven't even heard the darn thing. I think it sounds pretty rocking and i'm in the minority of actually liking the movie, but i totally digress.

I liked Speed Racers track as well even though it could have been better IMO. However, the codec (lossy DD) had VERY little to do with what was lacking with Speed Racer IMHO, and the big issue with whatever problems there were (which were fairly minor to my ears) were due to the mix mainly. Again, lossless would not have made a sig dif as the mix is still the exact same.

[bases1616]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

16 bit TrueHD vs DTS-MA 24 bit SO much better??? I think not. I would be willing to bet NOBODY would be able to hear a dif between these two in a double blind. I sure hope we get the latter just for good measure, but the reality is there will be no real world dif IMO.

All you have to do is compare Transformers DTHD 24-bit to Dark Knight DTHD 16-bit and you definitely can hear a difference. The explosions and bass have more of a full effect in Transformers. Don't get me wrong Dark Knight sounds good, but it could of been better. The IMAX experience was just amazing

[ajmrowland]

Originally Posted by bases1616

All you have to do is compare Transformers DTHD 24-bit to Dark Knight DTHD 16-bit and you definitely can hear a difference. The explosions and bass have more of a full effect in Transformers. Don't get me wrong Dark Knight sounds good, but it could of been better. The IMAX experience was just amazing

OMG, I can't believe you just told someone to compare the audio on two entirely different movies to prove your point about compression mwthods!




And no amount of bits can compare to the IMAX experience.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by bases1616

All you have to do is compare Transformers DTHD 24-bit to Dark Knight DTHD 16-bit and you definitely can hear a difference. The explosions and bass have more of a full effect in Transformers. Don't get me wrong Dark Knight sounds good, but it could of been better. The IMAX experience was just amazing

That comparison is pointless as there are WAY too many variables. Hell, you are not even comparing the same soundtrack! Dif soundtracks, dif mixes. You simply are not making an apples to apples comparison. Absolutely no conclusions can be made of any possible dif between 16bit and 24bit with this comparison, sorry.

Originally Posted by bases1616

You can agrue all you want about the audio, but the bottomline is Speed Raccer was dying for a lossless audio track. I did watch it on my 7.1 audio system and Speed Racer was lacking with the lack of lossless.

The audio is just as an important as the video on these BD's. Universal, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, and Fox are showing you how good the audio can be. Warner just needs to jump on aboard and learn some things from them.

Lossless would NOT have made a significant dif on Speed Racer....what was lacking with SR was the mix. A mediocre mix (Speed Racer) is still a mediocre mix in lossless.

Originally Posted by ajmrowland

OMG, I can't believe you just told someone to compare the audio on two entirely different movies to prove your point about compression mwthods!

Exactly. The logic is flat out faulty and NOTHING can be concluded from this as far as the point that is trying to be established.

[ghebert]

Originally Posted by AintNoSin

Why does everyone assume that Warner is going to half-ass the LOTR Blu-rays like they do ordinary movies? Doesn't Peter Jackson have a lot more to say about it than the average producer and director?

Because since taking over New Line Catalog...any New Line release on Blu lately has been DolbyTHD 5.1 rather than DTS-MA 7.1 which is what New Line was using prior to WB taking over. I wish WB would never have gotten their grips on New Line. I much prefer the DTS-MA 7.1 tracks over the DolbyTHD 5.1.

[cembros]

Originally Posted by ghebert

Because since taking over New Line Catalog...any New Line release on Blu lately has been DolbyTHD 5.1 rather than DTS-MA 7.1 which is what New Line was using prior to WB taking over. I wish WB would never have gotten their grips on New Line. I much prefer the DTS-MA 7.1 tracks over the DolbyTHD 5.1.

those 7.1 tracks from new line wernt even real 7.1. New line was using a matrix process almost identical to what your receiver does when it turns a 5.1 track into a 7.1 track.