Why is it the Pioneer BDP-23fd gets no love, but the Oppo and PS3 get mad RESPECT!

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by EWL5

While I will admit that outputting 720p is not ideal since scaling is involved, at least the Oppo does it w/o blemish but my Denon 3800 wasn't able to display some of the 720p-specific patterns from DVE: HD Basics.

All along, I haven't been knocking the Pioneer BD players but rather giving reasons why the Oppo deserves the respect it's been getting.

Well the Denon should be able to scale properly, especially with it's price tag.

Oppo deserves the recognition it gets and all of the players mentioned in this thread are great units IMO. Which is best for someone depends on their set-up.

[ewsjr]

Originally Posted by TwoTwo

I shouldn't include the comment on the >60". My bad. However, I'm still interested in hearing comments on the audio quality. Not knocking down any of the player listed, just trying to find out more.

I've had my Oppo for about 4 months and using the analog outs for the first time in my 15 year HT involvement and noticed a very big difference in the sound quality when listening to the HD codecs on blu-ray from the regular DD or DTS. I have a dedicated theater and the sound was much richer and more enveloping in the room, sort of like the difference between store-bought icing and home made if that makes sense. But that's my ears. I'm using an Outlaw 950 pre/pro which does bass management so no problem with the low bass. I just set the Oppo up as recommended by the experts over at the Outlaw forum (speakers set to large, sub on, all trims set to 0) and sat back and enjoyed. Not easy to put into words but it really does sound great.

[ryan4blu]

i read a bunch of reviews last night on the oppo player and alot of ppl seem to think it was pressure buy due to the hype it got for this player. alot of ppl were not impressed with it according to the reviews i read on amazon. i took it with a grain of salt either way.

but i did pull the trigger last night and bought a pioneer elite 23fd player on amazon for $399 with free shipping. it s was the best price i saw and i read alot of reviews and researched this player. it seems really solid.

i alos bought a pioneer elite vsx23 receiver as well. so now i can sync them together i guess. cant wait to hook them up.

[moviefan]

[QUOTE=Blove23;2502990]It has been my experience in reading threads that everyone discusses the Oppo and the PS3, but the Pioneer BDP-23fd is never thrown into the mix. Why is there no love for the Pioneer Elites?
QUOTE]

Simple: the OPPO is the best player for the money out there!
We have the PS-3, which is very good, but the OPPO is better because:
Outstanding Blu-ray berformance
Superior DVD upscaling
Much less heat generated
Quieter operation
Included HDMI cable and 2 calibration discs
English-only, well written manual
Great phone support, tel # in manual, answered by a real person!
'nuff said?

We have a Pioneer Pro Elite 60" plasma, and considered the Pipneer player, but feel the OPPO is superior!

[ryan4blu]

[QUOTE=moviefan;2528550]

Originally Posted by Blove23

It has been my experience in reading threads that everyone discusses the Oppo and the PS3, but the Pioneer BDP-23fd is never thrown into the mix. Why is there no love for the Pioneer Elites?
QUOTE]

Simple: the OPPO is the best player for the money out there!
We have the PS-3, which is very good, but the OPPO is better because:
Outstanding Blu-ray berformance
Superior DVD upscaling
Much less heat generated
Quieter operation
Included HDMI cable and 2 calibration discs
English-only, well written manual
Great phone support, tel # in manual, answered by a real person! :yikes
'nuff said?

We have a Pioneer Pro Elite 60" plasma, and considered the Pipneer player, but feel the OPPO is superior!

dont know about that, but a hdmi cable and some calibration disc's is not enough to make me buy one. $499 is $100 more than i paid for my pioneer elite player and i think its just as good if not better from what i have read on. i will know soon enought after it is hooked up. i am not saying the oppo is not a great player, but there are other players just as good for less $$

[Hammie]

[QUOTE=ryan4blu;2529258]

Originally Posted by moviefan

dont know about that, but a hdmi cable and some calibration disc's is not enough to make me buy one. $499 is $100 more than i paid for my pioneer elite player and i think its just as good if not better from what i have read on. i will know soon enought after it is hooked up. i am not saying the oppo is not a great player, but there are other players just as good for less $$

I agree. It takes more than an HDMI cable and a couple discs to persuade me to buy something.

I went from as PS3 to a stand-alone, which came free with my Panasonic plasma. Two things which I like better than the PS3 when I went to the Panasonic BD player are 1.)the Panasonic runs much cooler and 2.) I prefer the sound from the bitstreamed (personal preference, not trying to start a debate) codec.

I have since upgraded to the Oppo. I chose it because I previously owned an Oppo and was very satisfied with it and their customer support. It also allowed me to move to a single device to play BD's, SA-CD's, and DVD-A's.

I still have my PS3 but it has been relegated to gaming only.

[TwoTwo]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

i read a bunch of reviews last night on the oppo player and alot of ppl seem to think it was pressure buy due to the hype it got for this player. alot of ppl were not impressed with it according to the reviews i read on amazon. i took it with a grain of salt either way.

but i did pull the trigger last night and bought a pioneer elite 23fd player on amazon for $399 with free shipping. it s was the best price i saw and i read alot of reviews and researched this player. it seems really solid.

i alos bought a pioneer elite vsx23 receiver as well. so now i can sync them together i guess. cant wait to hook them up.

Let us know how that work out for you. Pioneer's Elite blu-ray player and receivers have been dropping in prices lately that it'll be hard to justify an Oppo if you don't need the SACD and DVD-A and DVD up converting capabilities. I also noticed that the Denon DVD 2500BTCi is now priced about a third of when it came out last year.

[PRO-630HD]

Originally Posted by cembros

that is not true at all, with the current firmware the load times are extremely fast, not as fastr as the ps3 but close. The menue navigation is just as good as the ps3.

Your living in fantasy land. Lets put it this way. The Pioneer BDP-05 is easily the slowest player released in the summer of 08 even though it was hyped as one of the fastest. It won't load a dvd in under 30 seconds. Every player on the market from Spring 08 forward can run circles around the Pioneer in load times.

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Your living in fantasy land. Lets put it this way. The Pioneer BDP-05 is easily the slowest player released in the summer of 08 even though it was hyped as one of the fastest. It won't load a dvd in under 30 seconds. Every player on the market from Spring 08 forward can run circles around the Pioneer in load times.

thats the 05 model, not the 23fd. i heard it has very fast load times, but i guess i cant judge until i get mine in and hook it up. i'll let ya know

[ryan4blu]

Originally Posted by TwoTwo

Let us know how that work out for you. Pioneer's Elite blu-ray player and receivers have been dropping in prices lately that it'll be hard to justify an Oppo if you don't need the SACD and DVD-A and DVD up converting capabilities. I also noticed that the Denon DVD 2500BTCi is now priced about a third of when it came out last year.

ya i dont need sacd or dvda. i just watch blu movies and sometimes a reg dvd. but i heard the upscale on the pioneer 23fd was fantastic. not sure of the oppo, never saw one in action yet.

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by ryan4blu

thats the 05 model, not the 23fd. i heard it has very fast load times, but i guess i cant judge until i get mine in and hook it up. i'll let ya know

This is true! Everyone is comparing the 05 and that's not the model in discussion. Yes its a Pioneer, but the 23fd loads faster than the Panny 60. I hope people can compare apples to apples...

[cembros]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Your living in fantasy land. Lets put it this way. The Pioneer BDP-05 is easily the slowest player released in the summer of 08 even though it was hyped as one of the fastest. It won't load a dvd in under 30 seconds. Every player on the market from Spring 08 forward can run circles around the Pioneer in load times.

no it is you that is in fantasy land, i am talking about the 23fd which i own, not the 05. I also own the ps3 and with the latest firmware load times are close to the ps3 and menu navigation is on par.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by cembros

no it is you that is in fantasy land, i am talking about the 23fd which i own, not the 05. I also own the ps3 and with the latest firmware load times are close to the ps3 and menu navigation is on par.

In the span it took Pioneer to come out with a worthy player (23FD), I already bought 3 BD players from 3 different manufacturers. SIGH!

Better late than never I guess...

[billt928]

I returned the one I purchased with in 24hrs and replaced it with a panny BD80k. I was not happy with it functions or as I look at it, limited functions. as compaired to the panny bd55k's I had at the time.

So it got no love from me just as I treated the pioneer 51. no love at all. I could not return them fast enough

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by EWL5

In the span it took Pioneer to come out with a worthy player (23FD), I already bought 3 BD players from 3 different manufacturers. SIGH!

Better late than never I guess...

Help understand, what are trying to say? Listen it technology, when you think you have the best they come out with something better. Because it has taken other manufacturers just as long to get to where the PS3 is at today, so what are you saying.

Are you saying finally, Pioneer came out with a decent product. This is my sixth blu-ray player and I can bet you soon it will be 7 if they go with 3D.

[HDTV1080P]

The Pioneer BDP-320 has an excellent video processor and good video scaler. If Pioneer in the future would offer reverse 3:2 pulldown for 480i DVD's, faster load times, and faster navigation they would have one of the best BLU-RAY players on the market right next to the OPPO. Only Pioneers future flagship BLU-RAY player needs SACD and DVD-Audio since that is a niche audiophile feature.

When I read the recent review from Home Theater magazine mentioning that the Pioneer BDP-320 takes 30 minutes to get a firmware update where as the OPPO takes less then 5 minutes. That info turns me off to owning a Pioneer BLU-RAY player.

The following summary link on the Pioneer BDP-320 lists the major positives and negatives regarding the Pioneer BDP-320.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2531619&postcount=1

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Pioneer BDP-320 has an excellent video processor and good video scaler. If Pioneer in the future would offer reverse 3:2 pulldown for 480i DVD's, faster load times, and faster navigation they would have one of the best BLU-RAY players on the market right next to the OPPO. Only Pioneers future flagship BLU-RAY player needs SACD and DVD-Audio since that is a niche audiophile feature.

When I read the recent review from Home Theater magazine mentioning that the Pioneer BDP-320 takes 30 minutes to get a firmware update where as the OPPO takes less then 5 minutes. That info turns me off to owning a Pioneer BLU-RAY player.

The following summary link on the Pioneer BDP-320 lists the major positives and negatives regarding the Pioneer BDP-320.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2531619&postcount=1

See, I dont understand what you are saying in your comment. You gave a list of 3 things that in the future you wished that the Pioneer could do to make it the best blu-ray player.

You said the Pioneer 320 does not do reverse 3:2 pulldown, but in the Home Theater Magazine review its says it does. Now which one is it, Does it do 3:2 pulldown or does it not?

If you made a mistake I understand, but as I was explained before people like to say things that are not true or give wrong information. Hey it opinion, but the Pioneer's 320/23fd do reverse 3:2 pulldown... If it was the older models I might understand, but the newer models do it...

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Blove23

Help understand, what are trying to say? Listen it technology, when you think you have the best they come out with something better. Because it has taken other manufacturers just as long to get to where the PS3 is at today, so what are you saying.

Are you saying finally, Pioneer came out with a decent product. This is my sixth blu-ray player and I can bet you soon it will be 7 if they go with 3D.

The evidence against Pioneer is the following:

1) One of the longest to get MA decoding in a BD player (from a major CE manufacturer). The outcry against Pioneer was extraordinary because the 05/51's targeted market (people with nicer systems that don't have HDMI 1.3 but do have HDMI 1.1 PCM support or MCH analog in) was ready to buy. I bought the Denon 3800 as it was first to market with onboard MA deocoding, a full year ahead of when the firmware for MA eventually came out for the 51/05.
2) Aside from possibly the 23FD, all previous players up to and including the 320 are still considered slow and unresponsive.
3) From the Home Theater Mag article "As a founding member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, you’d expect Pioneer’s players to be among the most innovative on the market. Sadly, that hasn’t been the case." I have found this to be all too true since the very first Pioneer HD1 player.

I was a Pioneer Elite "collector" but was totally turned off by reviews of all their BD players. I have their Elite 1130HD plasma, 84TXSi AVR, DV59AVi DVD universal player (all at the top or near the top of their respective categories). I'm sure I'm not the only former Pioneer fan who was expecting more. You ask why people still comment on the 05/51 players even though they aren't current? Bad blood and history. The 23FD player came out too late for people like me.

Pioneer is supposed to be ahead of the pack, not behind or "as good" as the Panasonic or Samsung's of the world.

Edit: Let me point out that anyone who is new to Pioneer is probably oblivious to this previous history and will enjoy their current BD player at face value. To that I can only say enjoy your system and hopefully Pioneer can regain some of their previous fanbase back.

[EWL5]

Quick question: is the 23 Elite player a clone of the 320 player as the 05 was to the 51? Both the 23 and 320 came out about the same time.

Edit: Just did a quick compare of the 2 players from the Pioneer website. Only differences I see is that the extra $300 buys you MCH PQLS over HDMI (320 only offers 2CH) plus the jitter reduction circuit, audiophile capacitors, and an RS-232 port. Both players share the same Burr Brown DAC's (I guess they got sick of Wolfson). Is that it? I can't see how the load speeds/responsiveness of the 23 can be that great considering the 320's was blasted in the Home Theater Mag review. Was there a firmware update that improved on this after the review was done?

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Quick question: is the 23 Elite player a clone of the 320 player as the 05 was to the 51? Both the 23 and 320 came out about the same time.

Yes, they appear to be very similar. They might have a few small differences, like the 05/51 had.

Edit: Just saw your edit. I remember reading in the AVS forum that speed was improved via firmware update.

Second Edit: Here's the link to the thread at AVS, post #3. Firmware 3.34.