Why is it the Pioneer BDP-23fd gets no love, but the Oppo and PS3 get mad RESPECT!

[cembros]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Your living in fantasy land. Lets put it this way. The Pioneer BDP-05 is easily the slowest player released in the summer of 08 even though it was hyped as one of the fastest. It won't load a dvd in under 30 seconds. Every player on the market from Spring 08 forward can run circles around the Pioneer in load times.

no it is you that is in fantasy land, i am talking about the 23fd which i own, not the 05. I also own the ps3 and with the latest firmware load times are close to the ps3 and menu navigation is on par.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by cembros

no it is you that is in fantasy land, i am talking about the 23fd which i own, not the 05. I also own the ps3 and with the latest firmware load times are close to the ps3 and menu navigation is on par.

In the span it took Pioneer to come out with a worthy player (23FD), I already bought 3 BD players from 3 different manufacturers. SIGH!

Better late than never I guess...

[billt928]

I returned the one I purchased with in 24hrs and replaced it with a panny BD80k. I was not happy with it functions or as I look at it, limited functions. as compaired to the panny bd55k's I had at the time.

So it got no love from me just as I treated the pioneer 51. no love at all. I could not return them fast enough

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by EWL5

In the span it took Pioneer to come out with a worthy player (23FD), I already bought 3 BD players from 3 different manufacturers. SIGH!

Better late than never I guess...

Help understand, what are trying to say? Listen it technology, when you think you have the best they come out with something better. Because it has taken other manufacturers just as long to get to where the PS3 is at today, so what are you saying.

Are you saying finally, Pioneer came out with a decent product. This is my sixth blu-ray player and I can bet you soon it will be 7 if they go with 3D.

[HDTV1080P]

The Pioneer BDP-320 has an excellent video processor and good video scaler. If Pioneer in the future would offer reverse 3:2 pulldown for 480i DVD's, faster load times, and faster navigation they would have one of the best BLU-RAY players on the market right next to the OPPO. Only Pioneers future flagship BLU-RAY player needs SACD and DVD-Audio since that is a niche audiophile feature.

When I read the recent review from Home Theater magazine mentioning that the Pioneer BDP-320 takes 30 minutes to get a firmware update where as the OPPO takes less then 5 minutes. That info turns me off to owning a Pioneer BLU-RAY player.

The following summary link on the Pioneer BDP-320 lists the major positives and negatives regarding the Pioneer BDP-320.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2531619&postcount=1

[Blove23]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Pioneer BDP-320 has an excellent video processor and good video scaler. If Pioneer in the future would offer reverse 3:2 pulldown for 480i DVD's, faster load times, and faster navigation they would have one of the best BLU-RAY players on the market right next to the OPPO. Only Pioneers future flagship BLU-RAY player needs SACD and DVD-Audio since that is a niche audiophile feature.

When I read the recent review from Home Theater magazine mentioning that the Pioneer BDP-320 takes 30 minutes to get a firmware update where as the OPPO takes less then 5 minutes. That info turns me off to owning a Pioneer BLU-RAY player.

The following summary link on the Pioneer BDP-320 lists the major positives and negatives regarding the Pioneer BDP-320.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2531619&postcount=1

See, I dont understand what you are saying in your comment. You gave a list of 3 things that in the future you wished that the Pioneer could do to make it the best blu-ray player.

You said the Pioneer 320 does not do reverse 3:2 pulldown, but in the Home Theater Magazine review its says it does. Now which one is it, Does it do 3:2 pulldown or does it not?

If you made a mistake I understand, but as I was explained before people like to say things that are not true or give wrong information. Hey it opinion, but the Pioneer's 320/23fd do reverse 3:2 pulldown... If it was the older models I might understand, but the newer models do it...

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Blove23

See, I dont understand what you are saying in your comment. You gave a list of 3 things that in the future you wished that the Pioneer could do to make it the best blu-ray player.

You said the Pioneer 320 does not do reverse 3:2 pulldown, but in the Home Theater Magazine review its says it does. Now which one is it, Does it do 3:2 pulldown or does it not?

If you made a mistake I understand, but as I was explained before people like to say things that are not true or give wrong information. Hey it opinion, but the Pioneer's 320/23fd do reverse 3:2 pulldown... If it was the older models I might understand, but the newer models do it...

The instruction manual and all reviews for the Pioneer BDP-320 do not mention a DVD feature that will do reverse 3:2 pulldown. The Panasonics, flagship Denon, and OPPO have a feature that does reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD. The Home Theater test you are mentioning that tests for 3:2 is not the same as having a option in the menu. If the Pioneer does 3:2 pulldown for DVD there would be a option in the menu.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The instruction manual and all reviews for the Pioneer BDP-320 do not mention a DVD feature that will do reverse 3:2 pulldown. The Panasonics, flagship Denon, and OPPO have a feature that does reverse 3:2 pulldown for DVD. The Home Theater test you are mentioning that tests for 3:2 is not the same as having a option in the menu. If the Pioneer does 3:2 pulldown for DVD there would be a option in the menu.

Are you confusing 3:2 pulldown with 24fps for DVD? Any BD player worth its salt will have 3:2 pulldown as a minimum (it does not need to be an option) since most DVD's are film-based. However, the more questionable 24fps feature for DVD is found only on a handful of BD players (Pioneer is not one of them).

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Blove23

Help understand, what are trying to say? Listen it technology, when you think you have the best they come out with something better. Because it has taken other manufacturers just as long to get to where the PS3 is at today, so what are you saying.

Are you saying finally, Pioneer came out with a decent product. This is my sixth blu-ray player and I can bet you soon it will be 7 if they go with 3D.

The evidence against Pioneer is the following:

1) One of the longest to get MA decoding in a BD player (from a major CE manufacturer). The outcry against Pioneer was extraordinary because the 05/51's targeted market (people with nicer systems that don't have HDMI 1.3 but do have HDMI 1.1 PCM support or MCH analog in) was ready to buy. I bought the Denon 3800 as it was first to market with onboard MA deocoding, a full year ahead of when the firmware for MA eventually came out for the 51/05.
2) Aside from possibly the 23FD, all previous players up to and including the 320 are still considered slow and unresponsive.
3) From the Home Theater Mag article "As a founding member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, you’d expect Pioneer’s players to be among the most innovative on the market. Sadly, that hasn’t been the case." I have found this to be all too true since the very first Pioneer HD1 player.

I was a Pioneer Elite "collector" but was totally turned off by reviews of all their BD players. I have their Elite 1130HD plasma, 84TXSi AVR, DV59AVi DVD universal player (all at the top or near the top of their respective categories). I'm sure I'm not the only former Pioneer fan who was expecting more. You ask why people still comment on the 05/51 players even though they aren't current? Bad blood and history. The 23FD player came out too late for people like me.

Pioneer is supposed to be ahead of the pack, not behind or "as good" as the Panasonic or Samsung's of the world.

Edit: Let me point out that anyone who is new to Pioneer is probably oblivious to this previous history and will enjoy their current BD player at face value. To that I can only say enjoy your system and hopefully Pioneer can regain some of their previous fanbase back.

[EWL5]

Quick question: is the 23 Elite player a clone of the 320 player as the 05 was to the 51? Both the 23 and 320 came out about the same time.

Edit: Just did a quick compare of the 2 players from the Pioneer website. Only differences I see is that the extra $300 buys you MCH PQLS over HDMI (320 only offers 2CH) plus the jitter reduction circuit, audiophile capacitors, and an RS-232 port. Both players share the same Burr Brown DAC's (I guess they got sick of Wolfson). Is that it? I can't see how the load speeds/responsiveness of the 23 can be that great considering the 320's was blasted in the Home Theater Mag review. Was there a firmware update that improved on this after the review was done?

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Quick question: is the 23 Elite player a clone of the 320 player as the 05 was to the 51? Both the 23 and 320 came out about the same time.

Yes, they appear to be very similar. They might have a few small differences, like the 05/51 had.

Edit: Just saw your edit. I remember reading in the AVS forum that speed was improved via firmware update.

Second Edit: Here's the link to the thread at AVS, post #3. Firmware 3.34.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by Jwilly019

Yes, they appear to be very similar. They might have a few small differences, like the 05/51 had.

Edit: Just saw your edit. I remember reading in the AVS forum that speed was improved via firmware update.

Second Edit: Here's the link to the thread at AVS, post #3. Firmware 3.34.

Thanks for the update. Chris Walker was a major AVS insider/contributor but he stopped posting recently. Hopefully he is still employed at Pioneer despite the realignment of the optical dept.

[Blacklac]

It's amazing how people can forget how long it took the PS3 to be what it is today.

There are alot of people who just don't understand, or care, what these top notch players do. All the extra features (picture controls and such). Granted these Pioneer and other respectable units may be a little slower in getting the most up-to-date gimicks, but atleast they do it right.

I will gladly take a Pioneer 51/05/23/09 over a 3D, Wifi, 2.0, streaming, etc... inexpensive player from Sony or Panasonic anydays. Quality picture and sound is what I want. Maybe a cheapo unit for the bedroom...

I never understood the complaint with having SPEED on a bluray player. Turn it on, get a drink/snack/go to the bathroom/whatever, comeback and it's ready. ZOMG, i wasted 30seconds of my life!!!11!1! I guarantee you have wasted much more than that on other things in your day.

Thank god Oppo was making quality players when Bluray came out.. wait... Oh yeah, it took them like 3 years... (and yes, I like Oppo)

/rant