Horror of Dracula (Dracula 1958)

[SMOOT]

Originally Posted by babybreese

Have you seen it?

When bad color is baked in, it stays.

As this has the Japanese footage integrated,
it's the same old scan re worked in 2012,
now re worked in 2018.

The color is not baked into the scan --

A good scan re-worked is not a bad thing if it is the best scan possible.
Once a really good scan is made**
there is not necessarily a reason for another scan unless a better element becomes available.

After a good scan is when the color work (and re-work) is done.

I think we will be very happy with the work Warner has done,
and I am very excited and looking forward to seeing it.

**(And, yes, there are many poor scans out there,
and some are made on sort-of do-it-yourself 2K & 4K in-house/in-home/in-basement things)

[brettsinclair1]

Seems likely the Warner disc will be an identical version of the film as seen on the UK disc but with the plentiful bonus features all missing.

The German disc adds less than a second but it's still essential for Hammer fans. But if you have the German or UK disc it's doubtful the WAC disc will be needed unless they've made adjustments

Edit - and it sounds like they have. So reviews at the ready

[brettsinclair1]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

The WAC release won't have the same color palette as the international disc.

To be fair, the Warner wording can be taken in two ways. Hopefully they'll make things a bit clearer in due course

[brettsinclair1]

Originally Posted by EManT2200

The info reads "Warner Archive’s new release restores the original color palette of the film, using dye-transfer Technicolor prints as reference, and has been meticulously cleaned of film-related damage for a superior presentation". Does this or does it not say "Warner Archives NEW release", to me this states that WARNER'S new release is the one that will have the original color palette restored. But, then again, what do I know ?

As I read it, if they are going to change anything it reads as if they are saying they need to clean film related damage that was present in the BFI restoration. As there wasn't any it sounds like they are simply describing something the BFI have already done - which is where the confusion lies as to whether they are doing additional color grading or not

[brettsinclair1]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

Wonder if this will have the additional censored footage of Drac's disintegration that was found a few years ago.

Being as that was the centrepiece of the UK release and added a few seconds not included in the BFI version this release would be getting bad reviews if its not included

[brettsinclair1]

Originally Posted by SMOOT

More reds and not all the cold & pale blue of the BFI Blu-ray. Looked really good.

Sounds a bit closer to the color grade of their earlier dvd release. But when the Bluray came out it was said that the Warner dvd grading was too warm

The joys of Bluray eh?

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Partyslammer

HORROR OF DRACULA (1958)
NEW 2018 1080p PRESENTATION SOURCED FROM THE HAMMER/BFI RESTORATION

"This is the UK version titled “DRACULA”, and featuring footage previously restored by the British Film Institute and Hammer Films."
+++++++++++++
"Warner Archive’s new release restores the original color palette of the film, using dye-transfer Technicolor prints as reference, and has been meticulously cleaned of film-related damage for a superior presentation."

This is the description that was originally used for the 2012 UK Blu-ray release.

Not saying you are wrong, but can you possibly back that up with a source? Because I can't recall a similar wording regarding the UK BD release.

For certain the BFI guy in the restoration feature on the UK BD never speaks about matching the dye-transfer Technicolor theatrical prints but instead about how the BFI restoration team wanted to bring out the original look of the (Eastman Color?) negative (which kinda explains why the result looks somewhat different when compared to previous releases. Presumably previous video releases were either based on those dye-transfer prints or timed to emulate them).

[brettsinclair1]

And for those wondering, a guy who works on the covers for some of the Archive titles (including this one) has confirmed the warmer pallette and that Curse of Frankenstein is currently being worked on but at the moment ETA is late 2019

[captveg]

Originally Posted by brettsinclair1

And for those wondering, a guy who works on the covers for some of the Archive titles (including this one) has confirmed the warmer pallette and that Curse of Frankenstein is currently being worked on but at the moment ETA is late 2019

His cover art for Horror of Dracula is one of my favorite covers ever, so kudos to him.

[brettsinclair1]

Originally Posted by captveg

His cover art for Horror of Dracula is one of my favorite covers ever, so kudos to him.

Here's the complete post:

I helped with the design of the sleeve for this (and do occasional design work for Warner in america after doing press releases for them years ago) and you can be assured that the PQ is well worth the upgrade. I hate double dipping and usually sell on the older copy but with just the trailer on this, I'm keeping the UK one for the extras and this for the PQ. It really is superb whether 1:66 is the coward's way out or not LOL. And 'Curse' is in the pipeline too. No date for it though other than a loose "late 2019".

As the UK COF is so bad any Warner release of it will be worth getting sight unseen I think and presumably they will ignore the UK Hammer team who reckon 1.33 is the right ratio

[jacksparrow900]

This was posted on facebook

This is not just cleaned up. This is a RESTORATION of both the discovered and restored footage from the U.K. release, which needed a bit more work done.

AND..of the originally intended colour scheme that the BFI(!) decided to alter(!).

This is well worth getting, imo.

[Partyslammer]

Originally Posted by babybreese

Have you seen it?

When bad color is baked in, it stays.

As this has the Japanese footage integrated,
it's the same old scan re worked in 2012,
now re worked in 2018.

And they ran an automated dirt removal program.

I fail to see what all the backslapping is about.
People complain 'where is it' for years, and when Warner's dumps it,
they cheer like robots.

You shall all see soon enough.

I'm speculating here, but in all likelihood at least as far as the version coming from WAC, this is the BFI UK theatrical cut done in 2007. That cut used the US ("Horror Of Dracula") version of the film sourced from Warner Bros negative and the BFI slotted in the original UK "Dracula" title graphic and an additional second or so of Lucy's staking scene (which I think amounts to an extra scream) from a UK 16mm source to make the "complete" version. At this point, YCM in Los Angeles digitally re-color timed the film. This version is what was screened for limited showings in the UK in 2007.

The long-rumored Japanese footage wasn't actually verified as existing until 2011 by Simon Rowen and it took a lot of negotiation between Hammer reps and Japan's NFC to get a telecine transfer of the surviving reels. Once procured, the long-unseen Japanese footage was digitally cleaned up and color timed to match the 2007 versions' color grading and integrated into a "2012" version which alongside the 2007 restoration was released on the 2013 Lionsgate UK Blu-ray.

Originally Posted by Mr. Thomson

Not saying you are wrong, but can you possibly back that up with a source? Because I can't recall a similar wording regarding the UK BD release.

For certain the BFI guy in the restoration feature on the UK BD never speaks about matching the dye-transfer Technicolor theatrical prints but instead about how the BFI restoration team wanted to bring out the original look of the (Eastman Color?) negative (which kinda explains why the result looks somewhat different when compared to previous releases. Presumably previous video releases were either based on those dye-transfer prints or timed to emulate them).

The quote(s) came from the Hammer official blog which is no longer around. However, the restoration feature on UK Blu-ray details the BFI's restoration where Ben Thompson of the BFI discusses and directly addresses how they came to the overall "look" of the film for the 2007/2012 versions.

He states "I felt in controlling the overall look of the (color) grade, the most genuine thing to do given the lack of materials was to not push the saturation bias to emulate an (IB) print for example.... we didn't want to put much of a signature that might suggest we're trying to look like an Eastmancolor or IB print .... Really just trying to emulate what I saw on the check print."

There's more but that's what I immediately pulled from re-watching the feature. It's not on YouTube so I'll try and rip it and post it there myself tonight.

[carminepesce]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

But, does it fade?

OMG hysterical!!!
“Is it safe” 😂😂

[captainsolo]

Let me find my jaw on the floor somewhere.

First of all THANK GOODNESS it's finally happening!
Second, thankfully WAC is handling this.
Third, at least COF is rumored to be forthcoming.

Now...the mention of grading in accordance but not strict adherence to IB prints is both helpful and very promising. IBs are notorious for not ever being the same and one must be both faithful and allowing for variables when using IBs as check sources-compounded by the fact that different labs had different tendencies.

I hate the UK disc due to the awful color grading which I have now seen several times. While it is better in ways due to the newer workflow and better technologies when compared to the DVD-no version of the film I had ever seen looked like that. (While very damaged and not perfect I actually prefer the untouched Japanese footage. No joke.) The DVD in comparison, like WB's COF is based off of some kind of older IP and has warm but reddish looking color, looks contrasty at times and features softness that seems baked into it. Plus it's severely overcropped in places. (One day I'll finally obtain the old hard to find 1.33 Laserdisc Warner released and see if it's the source of this master.) But I will watch it any day over the severely blue-d version released on disc in the UK.
Heck, there was just an old slightly red shifted 16mm print on ebay this week that still looks more accurate than the UK version!

While I wish a modern scan would be done of this landmark, the source BFI material must be up to snuff for WAC to utilize it. It makes me afraid though that there may be no better material to use, because the delay on the big two Hammers has always been a lack of good elements.

It looks like the extras will remain exclusive to the other releases due to rights like the UK Mummy disc versus the WB release in the US. That is understandable but the press blurbs had me worried none of the incredible footage from the Japanese reels would be included. I had wanted to check out the Anolis disc but this makes up for that.

Hopefully this gives the opportunity to view the original release version and a properly presented version of the extended climax. And I do really hope the original HORROR OF DRACULA title card will be maintained because I prefer it and would hate to see the film's international title disappear into obscurity. (It's not wrong to hope for seamlessly branched titles is it? Indicator just did two versions of Night of the Demon with two versions of Curse of the Demon.)

Will I buy it sight unseen? Yes. Do I wish it was a BD-50? Absolutely, but if WAC does their usual maxed bit rate then a 81 min film could feasibly be on a BD-25.
The art looks great and if it is in any way better than the UK disc in terms of color than we're already in improved territory.

But...
If any title deserved to be WAC's first 4K release...this would arguably be it.

As the years have gone by, more and more have I wished for hi-res modern no expenses spared versions of the original run of Hammer classics photographed by Jack Asher.


I think I'm going to haunt this thread.

[captainsolo]

Oh gosh, I had forgotten the UK Hammer folks swearing by 1.33 on COF. Even the disc packaging proclaims it as original despite widescreen being dominant for years and original industry materials shown to them displaying the film was matted.

I think all the early Hammers were designed for 1.66 pretty much judging by the visual compositions but could go wider if forced.

In terms of comparing dye transfer to source elements, on the whole they should be relatively similar-but prints were designed for theaters in the 50's with many variables such as different lamps etc. and thus down the road could look vastly different when compared with vaulted non exhibition elements. Without proper production notes surviving, it would be left up to whomever was at the controls of a video release to get what they could onto a master. Due to format limitations the famously vibrant Hammer films seemed much less so or could change from disc to disc.

I'm still floored at how much color is on the old 1.33 Laserdisc of REVENGE OF FRANKENSTEIN when compared to the colder looking 1.66 Sony DVD which I quite like. Previously I thought it was one of the Hammers that looked pretty good on disc, but then I saw the old Laser and a few print stills that were much more vibrant.

[GasmaskAvenger]

Thanks WAC, but I'm sticking with my Lionsgate UK blu.

[Harryhausen AF]

Originally Posted by babybreese

Have you seen it?

When bad color is baked in, it stays.

As this has the Japanese footage integrated,
it's the same old scan re worked in 2012,
now re worked in 2018.

And they ran an automated dirt removal program.

I fail to see what all the backslapping is about.
People complain 'where is it' for years, and when Warner's dumps it,
they cheer like robots.

You shall all see soon enough.

Let them eat crow no point trying to get thru to them. Old scan has a blanket blue tint baked in as you say so the color is confirmed revisionist no matter what they do. These guys should be ashamed definitely holding onto my DVD before the movie was ruined to look modern.

[Deciazulado]

Harker... fade me...

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

[Show spoiler]

Harker... fade me...

Not in my lifetime, Dracula. IB Tech has (pre)served you well.

[CinemaScope]

Ooo, that cap looks about right

Now I dunno, I thought that the scan used by the BFI was supplied to to them by Warner, who have the original elements, but I could be very wrong there (or mixing it up with The Curse Of Frankenstein). I still don't think that Warner will be working from the BFI graded scan, but...I'm in the UK & will be buying it from Wow, & I'll probably have to wait for the release date (or just after it) for the price to dip below the £15 customs limit, & by then all will be clear & I'll know if it's worth buying or not (& looking forward to seeing some comparisons between the BFI & Warner on caps-a-holic).