The Matrix Trilogy discussion

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by JayTL

Whether or not it's a trans movie, or if it's super in your face or not (I personally don't think it's super in your face). I can and still enjoy the movies. I am planning on rewatching them soon, maybe I'll try to keep an eye on any subtext

Just enjoy the movies the way you want to enjoy the movies, don't let anyone else tell you what they're about.

[darkness2918]

Originally Posted by Jay H.

I'm glad the Wachowski Sisters are confirming what most of us have suspected for years. It makes me appreciate The Matrix even more.

Ive seen them numerous times, never once thought of them like that

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by mwynn

Lets also not forget that this was said back in 2018 as well. Another example is the tank Neo wakes in, trans people would say that it is an egg you’re safely closed off by your shell, unable to see the wider world. It’s kind of like being in a sensory deprivation tank. Everything is muffled, and the world is hazy and translucent through the walls. There are barriers between you and the real world.

Most of Morpheus quotes are telling

Don’t think you are, know you are.

You have to let it all go, Neo (Fear, doubt, and disbelief) free your mind

I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.

But you could just as easily argue those lines are not about what you're saying but something entirely different. For example, Morpheus when Neo says "I can't go back, can I?" they have an exchange about how they have a "Rule" in not waking up a mind once it's past a certain age because it has a difficulty letting go and that's the context within which Morpheus is teaching Neo about those above lines.

If you then took it in the context of that video that The Matrix is a trans movie, then how do you reconcile that particular moment with the notion of people who do state they're trans as adults for example?

Obviously Morpheus wouldn't be apologising within a movie focused on such aspects imo.

Regarding the egg. Then what about all the others who are not considered trans for example stuck in those pods represented as?

Neo for example is clearly shown as a male and Trinity as a female both real world and digital. Both being released from said eggs.

My personal understanding and others obviously can have their own interpretation is that the shape was akin to a baby being born. For example a female egg is fertilised, a baby gestates and then born after a while. The egg signify a "Rebirth" of sorts in a visual sense.

Originally Posted by mwynn

The first thing they do when they enter the Matrix is reject their original names.

When Belinda McClory auditioned for the role of "Switch", she was only going for half the role. The character was originally planned to be played by androgynous actors. In the real world, it would be played by a male actor and in the Matrix be represented in a female form, hence the name "Switch". Warner Brothers refined the idea and McClory ended up getting a single female role in both environments.

What more do they need to do, stamp it on their forheads?

A rejection of names similar to say Muhammad Ali rejecting Cassius Clay could be seen as a rationale. The Machines seemingly giving that name or people feeling it was their "enslaved name" and adopting a new one. Also based around notions of trying to keep anonymity and be "cool" another aspect.

In regards to Switch, again there's nothing i personally came across to the above extent other than the video and just wondered if you had any more information on when that was said. If it was in the video only, i will just again have to state that androgynous looks by themselves do not indicate a trans identity for example and again, do not really reinforce at least to me the idea that was the case for that character.

I'm again going to re-iterate, there seems to be multiple ways people have interpreted the movie and particularly from an angle i don't myself because i guess i just don't see those aspects perhaps others are saying they do.

[mwynn]

[QUOTE=NARMAK;17936564
I'm again going to re-iterate, there seems to be multiple ways people have interpreted the movie and particularly from an angle i don't myself because i guess i just don't see those aspects perhaps others are saying they do.[/QUOTE]

That is fine, I did not quote you in my posts for a reason.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by JayTL

Whether or not it's a trans movie, or if it's super in your face or not (I personally don't think it's super in your face). I can and still enjoy the movies. I am planning on rewatching them soon, maybe I'll try to keep an eye on any subtext

Why would that factor stop you from enjoying the movies. There is a lot going on in these movies. I think it makes it more interesting to dig in, and to hear what the creators were going for when they were working on it.

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by mwynn

Why would that factor stop you from enjoying the movies. There is a lot going on in these movies. I think it makes it more interesting to dig in, and to hear what the creators were going for when they were working on it.

Oh, no it wouldn't stop me from enjoying the movie at all. You're second point is what I meant. It'd be interesting to watch with a subtext I never considered. Maybe I will enjoy it more now, but I also really enjoyed it just thinking of it as "just" a sci-fi action movie.

I would love to hear a new commentary from them discussing it throughout the movie

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by JayTL

Oh, no it wouldn't stop me from enjoying the movie at all. You're second point is what I meant. It'd be interesting to watch with a subtext I never considered. Maybe I will enjoy it more now, but I also really enjoyed it just thinking of it as "just" a sci-fi action movie.

I would love to hear a new commentary from them discussing it throughout the movie

Agreed maybe when this new movie comes out there will be new commentary done.

[joshsquash729]

Strangely enough, the first time I saw the original Matrix when I was much younger, I did think that Switch was either a man or a masculine woman (which she's pretty much presented as). As a young kid who was still coming to terms with his sexuality, I was always drawn to the character, not just because she visually stands out from the rest of the drab world, but because it was one of my first experiences of someone not adhering exactly to what is expected of their gender, etc. Sure, Trinity is far from the most feminine person around, but her "femininity" is still played up to a certain extent with the tight catsuit and whatnot.

Now that both Wachowski's are able to live as their true selves, and with the tolerance of the Trans community being what it is (even with all the work yet to be done), I'd say a Trans character in Matrix 4 is all but a given, and I love that. What better way to get more visibility for the community than to have a well-written, capable character who kicks butt? If it was done in a way like what they had planned for Switch, I could see it being quite effective, and not a "hit-you-over-the-head" type of detail. It's there for people who get it or need it, but not enough to distract from anything.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by joshsquash729

Strangely enough, the first time I saw the original Matrix when I was much younger, I did think that Switch was either a man or a masculine woman (which she's pretty much presented as). As a young kid who was still coming to terms with his sexuality, I was always drawn to the character, not just because she visually stands out from the rest of the drab world, but because it was one of my first experiences of someone not adhering exactly to what is expected of their gender, etc. Sure, Trinity is far from the most feminine person around, but her "femininity" is still played up to a certain extent with the tight catsuit and whatnot.

Now that both Wachowski's are able to live as their true selves, and with the tolerance of the Trans community being what it is (even with all the work yet to be done), I'd say a Trans character in Matrix 4 is all but a given, and I love that. What better way to get more visibility for the community than to have a well-written, capable character who kicks butt? If it was done in a way like what they had planned for Switch, I could see it being quite effective, and not a "hit-you-over-the-head" type of detail. It's there for people who get it or need it, but not enough to distract from anything.

The CW show Supergirl has a trans actress who plays a trans superhero on the show and I think it's a step in the right direction for the LGBTQ+ community.

[joshsquash729]

Originally Posted by Batman1980

The CW show Supergirl has a trans actress who plays a trans superhero on the show and I think it's a step in the right direction for the LGBTQ+ community.

Agreed! I haven't seen any of the CW shows, but I've heard plenty about them. I do think that shows like that are a reason why the younger generations are having an easier time accepting people who are different- it's portrayed in the media they regularly consume and so isn't so alien a concept.

Considering how few out Trans directors there are (I can't even think of any besides the Wachowskis, honestly), I'd say it would be a missed opportunity not to use their voice to help spread their message. We need Trans stories by Trans writers/directors/actors, etc. A world like the Matrix, where pretty much anything is possible, seems like the perfect place to tell a story like that. If people can bend spoons with their mind, stop bullets, run on walls, phase through objects, why can't they be a different gender?

[AreaFive]

I would love to see The Animatrix come to 4K at some point. Do you all think there's a likelihood of that ever happening?

[Prog5000]

Matrix 5/5.
Reloaded 3/5.
Revelations 2/5.

The Wachowski Brothers seemed more interested in long scenes of cgi than telling a decent story. The second suffered from this and the third more so. They seemed to forget how to edit timely and showed far too much that the third film particularly was rather boring.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by AreaFive

I would love to see The Animatrix come to 4K at some point. Do you all think there's a likelihood of that ever happening?

That's like one of the more frustrating parts of the whole Matrix stuff that didn't transition over to Blu Ray. It tells an amazing bunch of stories to feed into the lore of the machines, the Matrix and even ties into the Kid who we see in Reloaded.

[Batman1980]

I think the best chance to get a proper 4k restoration of the Animatrix will be when they release the inevitable 4k set of the 4 live action films.

[AreaFive]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

That's like one of the more frustrating parts of the whole Matrix stuff that didn't transition over to Blu Ray. It tells an amazing bunch of stories to feed into the lore of the machines, the Matrix and even ties into the Kid who we see in Reloaded.

It was released on blu-ray as part of the various boxed sets and movie collections (that's how I have it, for example) but it never received a standalone blu-ray release in the west which is definitely unfortunate.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Prog5000

Matrix 5/5.
Reloaded 3/5.
Revelations 2/5.

The Wachowski Brothers seemed more interested in long scenes of cgi than telling a decent story. The second suffered from this and the third more so. They seemed to forget how to edit timely and showed far too much that the third film particularly was rather boring.

I think that was meddling by Warner Bros. I posted the original script for Reloaded a few pages ago, really different to what was filmed.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by mwynn

I think that was meddling by Warner Bros. I posted the original script for Reloaded a few pages ago, really different to what was filmed.

Has that been confirmed? It comes off a bit fanboyish.

I really feel like WB gave them carte blanche. It's not like the first film wasn't known for it's extended action sequences.

Now Jupiter Ascending? That definitely had a lot of studio interference, especially in the editing room.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Has that been confirmed? It comes off a bit fanboyish.

I really feel like WB gave them carte blanche. It's not like the first film wasn't known for it's extended action sequences.

Now Jupiter Ascending? That definitely had a lot of studio interference, especially in the editing room.

No its not confirmed which is why I said I think. They would not have scrapped a script for no reason though.

[Jay H.]

Originally Posted by Prog5000

Matrix 5/5.
Reloaded 3/5.
Revelations 2/5.

The Wachowski Brothers seemed more interested in long scenes of cgi than telling a decent story. The second suffered from this and the third more so. They seemed to forget how to edit timely and showed far too much that the third film particularly was rather boring.

My ratings are identical. My biggest issue with Revolutions was the overabundance of characters we just met. Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus were all guest-stars in their own film.

The freeway chase in Reloaded is outstanding. The rest of the movie is decent.

[CreasyBear]

I just felt the need to share that WB has put up a 4K trailer of the legendary original trailer for The Matrix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUEQ...ature=youtu.be