Dressed to Kill (1980)

[javy]

I love Dressed to Kill, but IMO De Palma's masterpiece is Carlito's Way. Which is also #4 on my all-time favorite films list.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Monterey Jack

I'm just not sure how many of the film's laughs are intentional.

Seriously, the climax has

[Show spoiler]the villain defeated by a DOG JUMPING THROUGH A CAR WINDOW at him.

You do realize it's written and directed by Brian De Palma, don't you? OF COURSE most of the laughs are intentional.

[CineSicko]

If we're talking great De Palma films, GREETINGS (1968) and HI, MOM! (1970) need to be mentioned, IMO. Hilarious, cool, stylish, angry and brilliant, especially the latter. Both movies star Robert De Niro, BTW. Most De Palma fans I know can't stand either of them, though, so don't expect glossy, Hitchcock-influenced De Palma stuff.

P.S.: OBSESSION (1976) is underappreciated on this board.

[Monterey Jack]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

You do realize it's written and directed by Brian De Palma, don't you? OF COURSE most of the laughs are intentional.

I'm a big BDP fan, and yet a LOT of his movies are filled with unintentional giggles (witness The Black Dahlia, a film I defend to a degree but holy SHIT are some of the performances awful. ). When De Palma is inserting humor into already-tense scenes in his thrillers, it usually works, but when he goes for actual Jokes, his humor tends to fall utterly flat (like with his "comedies" Wise Guys and Bonfire Of The Vanities). With Body Double, the fact that the narrative is second-rate and the acting so poor only accentuates the attempts at humor not working.

The "Relax" music video in the middle of the film is the only intentional bit of humor in the film that makes me laugh, because it's so HILARIOUSLY mid-80s.

And I feel bad about this BECAUSE I'm such a fan, but every time I watch the film again trying to see why it has such a good reputation I still find it lacking.

[Hoke Moseley]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

You do realize it's written and directed by Brian De Palma, don't you? OF COURSE most of the laughs are intentional.

Yep, De Palma is the greatest troll in the history of cinema.

[nitin]

Body Double is the least of his 80s red period films IMHO, but the Relax section is top tier De Palma, totally amazing.

I also think Obsession is the best of his Hitchcock riffs (DTK and Blow Out being next). Been planning to rewatch Sisters but waiting to see how Criterion’s disc turns out.

And almost forgot, but I actually like Passion too. Completely ridiculous but reminded me of his red period films to a certain extent (even though aesthetically it’s very of the now).

[CineSicko]

Originally Posted by nitin

Body Double is the least of his 80s red period films IMHO, but the Relax section is top tier De Palma, totally amazing.

I also think Obsession is the best of his Hitchcock riffs (DTK and Blow Out being next). Been planning to rewatch Sisters but waiting to see how Criterion’s disc turns out.

And almost forgot, but I actually like Passion too. Completely ridiculous but reminded me of his red period films to a certain extent (even though aesthetically it’s very of the now).

I used to have mixed feelings about BODY DOUBLE, but recently I came to the conclusion that it's trying to be a self-referential satire of De Palma's obsession with Hitchcock while also being a functional thriller. It's an odd experiment, for sure, but I think it succeeds on both levels... although the denouement is admittedly pretty shaky.

Regarding DRESSED TO KILL, I watched the Arrow BD of CARRIE for the first time last night. It was a beautiful presentation. However, I hadn't seen it in years, and I had forgotten about the opening shower scene, wherein Spacek is sensually washing herself in a steamy shower. The shot design for that scene is almost identical to the one that opens DRESSED TO KILL. De Palma's recurring motifs are bizarre; his infatuation with voyeurism (women in showers and windows, specifically) is a bit unsettling. I wonder if it stems from his love for REAR WINDOW, or if his love for that film stems from his pre-established tendencies toward voyeurism. Haven't seen Baumbach's documentary yet, so I'm hoping they go into that side of De Palma's psyche.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by CineSicko

I used to have mixed feelings about BODY DOUBLE, but recently I came to the conclusion that it's trying to be a self-referential satire of De Palma's obsession with Hitchcock while also being a functional thriller. It's an odd experiment, for sure, but I think it succeeds on both levels... although the denouement is admittedly pretty shaky.

Body Double is a lot of fun simply because it's so over-the-top at times. And I truly believe all of the laughs and craziness are intentional. De Palma is just too competent a filmmaker and too smart a guy for it to be one of those shoddy "so bad it's good movies" and that same streak of dark humour is present throughout so many of his other films, particularly Raising Cain. Even the fact that he cast Tippi Hedren's daughter as a porn star in a Hitchcock inspired film is hilarious.

[CineSicko]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Body Double is a lot of fun simply because it's so over-the-top at times. And I truly believe all of the laughs and craziness are intentional. De Palma is just too competent a filmmaker and too smart a guy for it to be one of those shoddy "so bad it's good movies" and that same streak of dark humour is present throughout so many of his other films, particularly Raising Cain. Even the fact that he cast Tippi Hedren's daughter as a porn star in a Hitchcock inspired film is hilarious.

While his humor is hit-and-miss for me, some of his comedies have left me in pain from laughter. HOME MOVIES is one of those. It's hilarious. I showed it to many friends over the years and everyone howled with laughter throughout. That one needs a Blu-Ray release.

[Hoke Moseley]

Originally Posted by CineSicko

De Palma's recurring motifs are bizarre; his infatuation with voyeurism (women in showers and windows, specifically) is a bit unsettling. I wonder if it stems from his love for REAR WINDOW, or if his love for that film stems from his pre-established tendencies toward voyeurism. Haven't seen Baumbach's documentary yet, so I'm hoping they go into that side of De Palma's psyche.

Part of this stems from a young De Palma following and spying on his father, who was having an affair. I think that's covered in the documentary.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by nitin

Body Double is the least of his 80s red period films IMHO, but the Relax section is top tier De Palma, totally amazing.

I also think Obsession is the best of his Hitchcock riffs (DTK and Blow Out being next). Been planning to rewatch Sisters but waiting to see how Criterion’s disc turns out.

And almost forgot, but I actually like Passion too. Completely ridiculous but reminded me of his red period films to a certain extent (even though aesthetically it’s very of the now).

I pretty much feel the reverse of this, for me Obsession is one of his weakest and most uninspired takes on Hitchcock. Films like Body Double are much more interesting because of the amount of conceptual deconstruction/multi-faceted payoffs going on concurrently, Obsession is pretty predictable and kinda dull in comparison. Also hampered by a bad lead performance.

[Monterey Jack]

Originally Posted by Hoke Moseley

Part of this stems from a young De Palma following and spying on his father, who was having an affair. I think that's covered in the documentary.

Keith Gordon's character in Dressed To Kill was based, in part, on this incident in De Palma's life.

[CineSicko]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

Films like Body Double are much more interesting because of the amount of conceptual deconstruction/multi-faceted payoffs going on concurrently...

Could you elaborate on this? I'm curious as to just how complex you think BODY DOUBLE is, and why.

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

Obsession is pretty predictable and kinda dull in comparison. Also hampered by a bad lead performance.

It's deliberately paced, to be sure, but the narrative is punctuated throughout by dynamic twists and visceral occurrences, IMO. Could it be that you're reacting to its PG-related mildness, vs. the racy (smutty?) elements laced throughout BODY DOUBLE and De Palma's other R-rated thrillers?

Regarding your statement about Robertson's performance, I agree, to a point. His work in OBSESSION is alternately effective and awkward. I've always considered him a frustrating actor, whose work ranges from absolutely brilliant (e.g. CHARLY, J.W. COOP) to embarrassingly poor (the otherwise brilliant MAN ON A SWING, ESCAPE FROM L.A.). Kind of like Elliot Gould in that regard.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by CineSicko

Could you elaborate on this? I'm curious as to just how complex you think BODY DOUBLE is, and why.



It's deliberately paced, to be sure, but the narrative is punctuated throughout by dynamic twists and visceral occurrences, IMO. Could it be that you're reacting to its PG-related mildness, vs. the racy (smutty?) elements laced throughout BODY DOUBLE and De Palma's other R-rated thrillers?

Regarding your statement about Robertson's performance, I agree, to a point. His work in OBSESSION is alternately effective and awkward. I've always considered him a frustrating actor, whose work ranges from absolutely brilliant (e.g. CHARLY, J.W. COOP) to embarrassingly poor (the otherwise brilliant MAN ON A SWING, ESCAPE FROM L.A.). Kind of like Elliot Gould in that regard.

Robertson was an inconsistent actor, but I actually think he was pretty good in "Man on a Swing". I rewatched that recently and his only choice was to go completely understated next to Joel Grey's over the top performance. If Robertson had tried to match him, then the film would have been thrown into complete chaos. It's actually a pretty good performance IMO given he didn't have much to work with. He's an unsuspecting, fairly pedestrian cop, so his kind of casual bemusement until the end works for me. Just my two cents. Brilliant film.

He's not very good in "Obsession" though.

[klauswhereareyou]

I like Dressed to Kill, but Body Double is probably De Palma's best thriller.

[CineSicko]

Originally Posted by mja345

Robertson was an inconsistent actor, but I actually think he was pretty good in "Man on a Swing". I rewatched that recently and his only choice was to go completely understated next to Joel Grey's over the top performance. If Robertson had tried to match him, then the film would have been thrown into complete chaos. It's actually a pretty good performance IMO given he didn't have much to work with. He's an unsuspecting, fairly pedestrian cop, so his kind of casual bemusement until the end works for me. Just my two cents. Brilliant film.

I'll have to give it another viewing and see if I can't find something to appreciate about Robertson in it. I absolutely loved the film, though. Frank Perry was one of the most underrated filmmakers of all time, and MAN ON A SWING is one of his best. It also contains one of the most strangely unsettling phone calls from a killer in movie history, in which he asks Robertson's wife (in a faux-childlike voice): "Ask your husband if he's done his Christmas shopping yet." So bizarre... it really got under my skin.

[MJD64]

I like the ostensibly romantic Obsession, that very romanticism subverted by its creepy undertones, frequently clammy mood and magnificent Bernard Herrmann score (appropriately both romantic and creepy by turns). Cliff Robertson certainly isn't dynamic in the lead, but as his character is essentially a man in a dreamy romantic reverie who's never gotten over the deaths of the wife and child he feels culpable for, his performance doesn't spoil the film for me; his aloofness and detachment work for the character to a degree (besides, there's good performances from both Genevieve Bujold and John Lithgow to enjoy).The film lacks that great black humor De Palma is known for, but that mix of romanticism and eeriness makes for an interesting entry in De Palma's oeuvre.

Still, De Palma's remembrances on the difficulties of working with Cliff Robertson in the documentary De Palma are in sharp contrast to his more diplomatic recollections in the Obsession Revisited retrospective from the DVD and Blu...and pretty damn funny.

Will be really curious to see what Scream puts together for their Obsession release next year (a John Lithgow interview at the least, please! As Lithgow was amenable to an interview for the fairly recent Raising Cain SE, I'd like to think it'll happen).The Arrow release is excellent, so Scream have their work cut out for them to either rival or best it.

Didn't mean to derail the thread further -- back to Dressed to Kill.

[CineSicko]

Originally Posted by MJD64

I like the ostensibly romantic Obsession, that very romanticism subverted by its creepy undertones, frequently clammy mood and magnificent Bernard Herrmann score (appropriately both romantic and creepy by turns).

Having worked at video stores all through high school, I can tell you that OBSESSION was asked for - and rented - more than any other De Palma films. People loved to talk about it, too, and often reminisced fondly about seeing it on the big screen. It actually rented even more than SCARFACE.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by CineSicko

Could you elaborate on this? I'm curious as to just how complex you think BODY DOUBLE is, and why.



It's deliberately paced, to be sure, but the narrative is punctuated throughout by dynamic twists and visceral occurrences, IMO. Could it be that you're reacting to its PG-related mildness, vs. the racy (smutty?) elements laced throughout BODY DOUBLE and De Palma's other R-rated thrillers?

Regarding your statement about Robertson's performance, I agree, to a point. His work in OBSESSION is alternately effective and awkward. I've always considered him a frustrating actor, whose work ranges from absolutely brilliant (e.g. CHARLY, J.W. COOP) to embarrassingly poor (the otherwise brilliant MAN ON A SWING, ESCAPE FROM L.A.). Kind of like Elliot Gould in that regard.

Body Double is an unbelievably weird film, I think it's pretty amazing De Palma even got away making it - it's really hard to imagine even who the film is for; surely unsuccessful by any kind of mainstream thriller criteria eg Dressed to Kill, at the same time too sleazed up on 80s softcore porno trash to be taken seriously by critics - either way for me it's emblematic of everything I love about De Palma and what made him such a deceptively challenging filmmaker (mainly to do with his manipulation and redirection of stylistic/narrative cliches and expectations, mainly taken from Hitchcock). In terms of complexity, I find the eschewing of narrative towards the end of the film fascinating, it feels to me like it goes way beyond his other dream scenes or playful movie-within-movie dislocations. It's De Palma using Hitchcock again but in the most interesting ways - the odes to Vertigo are obvious, so farcically funny in their immediacy (the ridiculous homage kiss scene, for example) or trashiness (that so terrible it's good music score that plays as he voyeurs on the girl dancing): it's an amazing piece of pop-art, his imitative style becomes (imo) totally transformative and into a new kind of aesthetic mode, all borne out of brilliant re-purposing. Also, like Vertigo did originally, Body Double challenges traditional expectations and redirects the very nature of viewership - albeit in a new, very 80s way. I think it's a magnificent film. It's also - as you take for granted with De Palma - just incredibly well directed. The shopping mall scene is a masterclass.

Could it be that you're reacting to its PG-related mildness, vs. the racy (smutty?) elements laced throughout BODY DOUBLE and De Palma's other R-rated thrillers?

Having thought about it, yes there is a connection where I do much prefer De Palma when he's smuttier. But I don't find Obsession particularly witty (I don't hate the film per se, but it would be lower tier). De Palma working with the racier stuff usually brings out more of his edge for visual flair of course, as you hint at. I do probably need to revisit Obsession again though in light of all the positive talk about it up here in the thread.

Regarding your statement about Robertson's performance, I agree, to a point. His work in OBSESSION is alternately effective and awkward. I've always considered him a frustrating actor, whose work ranges from absolutely brilliant (e.g. CHARLY, J.W. COOP) to embarrassingly poor (the otherwise brilliant MAN ON A SWING, ESCAPE FROM L.A.). Kind of like Elliot Gould in that regard.

Have you seen De Palma's hilarious piece about him in his titular Noah Baumbach documentary?

[StingingVelvet]

I think the idea of Body Double being "softcore porno trash" is a purely American concept based on our ridiculous sex hangups. It's really not that racy, especially nowadays where the craziest sexual content imaginable is a click away.