Metal Gear Solid: Master Collection Vol. 1

[dyne]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

MGS 1 (PS1) received a remake on GCN, I think. It's a shame Konami seems to ignore its existence.

He said Metal Gear, not MGS. Pretty sure he's referring to the original MSX/Fami/NES titles.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I hear ya, but i seriously think we can look at Capcom as a huge source of how you could try remake the games and keep the majority of the essence. Hell, they even managed to make RE3 not as good as RE2

Jokes aside, in terms of development and release, they're the absolutely closest example to a PS1 era bunch of games properly redone. The alternative imo is a small scale team doing pre-production on all the intended titles and going full bore with maybe two development teams working on each entry to release about 6-12 months apart and then give them a break and transition them into a final project or get the ball rolling again and split them off the make more sequels.

I genuinely think a well done MGS has demand, and it will always be there if properly done but you are right that technology is moving along and people will always wonder how it would have looked if waiting more and more time. FF7 Remake is a perfect example though of from when something is teased and then officially materialised and people will probably still be on about how if it was made later, X, Y or Z improvements could have been made.

However, i do sincerely believe we're now with PS4 onwards in a time period where games are significantly more likely to be playable and graphically still hit the mark. Even as we travel more and more towards photo realism.

This right here if Capcom can do it (multiple times too with Gamecube remakes)and release new content then konami should be more than capable to do MGS1/MGS2

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

MGS 1 (PS1) received a remake on GCN, I think. It's a shame Konami seems to ignore its existence.

Metal Gear as in the MSX games. I thought that was obvious since I referenced MGS (PS1) in that same post



This is in desperate need of modernizing and considering how it was originally released, a remake would have to be a brand new experience. I would take the basic story premise and model the environments like the original MGS1 and MGS2 with gameplay mechanics from latter games

Originally Posted by dyne

He said Metal Gear, not MGS. Pretty sure he's referring to the original MSX/Fami/NES titles.

Thanks. I was

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

None of the Metal Gear and Metal Gear Solid games should be remade, and I wouldn't trust Konami do it right anyway. Remaking Metal Gear 2 would only highlight how much MGS1 takes from MG2. The Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 remakes would retcon a bunch of stuff in order to make them more interesting in a heavily cinematic 3D environment, which would then break the sequels. Then they end up having to remake all of them, over, what, fifteen years? With Metal Gear 1 and 2 taking five years each and all the others being remade from the ground up as well, closer to twenty years? Think of all the new games they could make in that time. Appreciate them as a time in gaming history, appreciate how each one builds on the mechanics and graphics of the last. A remade series would essentially play the same from beginning to end, meaning the current standards, which sounds boring to me.

I dont know why you'd expect them to take 5 years each. Alot of assets used from 1 can be reused with 2 and lessons learned from the first would be carried into the sequel. It would also really depend on the cope and nature of the remake. Because of how the story is, its not going to be some big sprawling open world like MGSV. I envision it to be more self contained environments like MGS2. They could even work on both games at once and release them as one package bc they werent that long anyway (like 4-6 hours each)

[dallywhitty]

MGS1 is probably my favourite game of all time. Tbh this is absolutely how older games should be preserved, re-released on modern platforms and via physical media. Remakes are overrated.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

MGS1 is probably my favourite game of all time. Tbh this is absolutely how older games should be preserved, re-released on modern platforms and via physical media. Remakes are overrated.

I strongly disagree. I challenge anyone to play the amazing Shadow of the Colossus remake on the PS4 Pro/PS5 and say that they prefer the original PS2 one with the atrocious sub-20fps frame rate.

With that said, I do think that it would be nice if the original versions (ports) were included with every remake, especially the ones from the PS1/PS2 era and before, since they are only a gigabyte or two in size.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

I strongly disagree. I challenge anyone to play the amazing Shadow of the Colossus remake on the PS4 Pro/PS5 and say that they prefer the original PS2 one with the atrocious sub-20fps frame rate.

With that said, I do think that it would be nice if the original versions (ports) were included with every remake, especially the ones from the PS1/PS2 era and before, since they are only a gigabyte or two in size.

Technically speaking, is that game really a remake? It's much more akin to a remaster than a remake a la Resident Evil 2 PS1 versus PS4 or say FF7 PS1 to FF7 on PS4.

The problem with also comparing the two imo sometimes is the example of gameplay styles. Shadow of the Colossus for example was a much more 3D gameplay style we're more used to now. MGS1 had a more in between top down sorta style which changed when going from PS1 to PS2. Not many modern gamers would feel used to that if their first experiences were MGS2 onwards and they would want a much more consistent gameplay thread.

So i do think we can both preserve the original and that's great, but it's not necessarily a lot of effort to do but we also should get really well done remakes because in the HD era, they'll much more likely hold up down the line.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

MGS1 is probably my favourite game of all time. Tbh this is absolutely how older games should be preserved, re-released on modern platforms and via physical media. Remakes are overrated.

Kinda nonsensical given there are literally 100s of examples of games perfectly preserved with updated visuals and minor mechanic changes to improve gameplay over the years...

That don't impact the original at all lol

[Zechs Merquise]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

This set is great for those who ditched their old consoles or want a 60 fps and best resolution version of these older games, all in one place. I do wish they put more effort into this set with improved textures at least, but it looks like a direct port compilation if I didn't miss more details.

Wouldn't 'improved' textures just make the flaws more visible?

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

I strongly disagree. I challenge anyone to play the amazing Shadow of the Colossus remake on the PS4 Pro/PS5 and say that they prefer the original PS2 one with the atrocious sub-20fps frame rate.

With that said, I do think that it would be nice if the original versions (ports) were included with every remake, especially the ones from the PS1/PS2 era and before, since they are only a gigabyte or two in size.

Most remakes aren't the Shadow of the Colossus remake. Or the Ocarina of Time remake. Most remakes are like Twin Snakes, or the Majora's Mask remake. A lot of polish but the developers go in and fix what isn't broken and make the game overall less enjoyable

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by Zechs Merquise

Most remakes aren't the Shadow of the Colossus remake. Or the Ocarina of Time remake. Most remakes are like Twin Snakes, or the Majora's Mask remake. A lot of polish but the developers go in and fix what isn't broken and make the game overall less enjoyable

I mean twin snakes broke it due to the FPS and ruing fights like Vulcan raven etc.

But I can think of TONS of current releases that do their original games justice that almost perfectly preserve the original gameplay lol

RE1(basically all the REs)
CoD4 :remastered
Dark Souls
Tony Hawk 1/2
Spyro
Last of US
Bioshock collection
Dead space/ Demon souls
Halo collection
Gears of war UE


I could probably name another 10-20+ that were well done/ well received... So it's hardly a stretch they could give it a total overhaul and make it a wonderful same/new experience.

[Talal86]

I'd skip this collection if it included Twin Snakes instead of the original

[navydavey]

I wouldn't skip the release if Twin snakes replaced the original MGS but I would 100% be moaning up a storm as the original is far superior.

I was hoping a Master Collection would include everything/as much as possible, but it was not to be.

[Modren]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

I strongly disagree. I challenge anyone to play the amazing Shadow of the Colossus remake on the PS4 Pro/PS5 and say that they prefer the original PS2 one with the atrocious sub-20fps frame rate.

Re-releasing the original game doesn't have to mean replicating every aspect of it, especially when we're talking about technical limitations. SotC also got a PS3 port that retains the original visuals, but at a higher resolution and with a smoother framerate. And if you want something a little more than that, you can look at Nightdive's ports of Quake 1&2, which add enhancements like real-time shadows and new models, done very tastefully to avoid distracting from the original art design, but also give you the option to disable them for a more "classic" experience.

[Mr. Chaverria]

MGS1 was remaded into Twin Snakes. And it was fun but it also created issues. Voice acting was poor in some aspects. It used MGS2 mechanics in an MGS1 world. Made it so much easier. Kitamura's involvement in the cutscenes pushed the action too much most of the time. HOWEVER, I did enjoy what he did w/ Gray Fox at the end. It really did some cool stuff w/ him.

MGS1 to work as a remake would mean you'd need to expand it vastly in scope to hold true to what made the original work in its time. To make it feel right. Where Twin Snakes didn't feel right but still enjoyable.

MG1 and MG2 totally deserve remakes. They're games that not a lot have played. And they don't lend themselves well when playing the series today. I'd love to see those two games retconnned and remade to match better to what MGS is now. I say that but also think MGS5 (and the storied entries before it) went too far w/ the tech to not match up where MGS1 was laid at. Regardless, the revelations of MGS5 and it's impact onto MG1 and MG2 would be fascinating to see. But, they went too far w/ the tech from MGS3 to MGS5. Really wished the tech was a bit tapered back more in MGS3. But then the entries after it went crazy to where by MGS1... Rex, while still cool, is out of date w/ the tech. I loved MGS3, Peace Walker, and MGS5. Man, I might think Peace Walker is best one of the Big Boss games. It just surprised me a lot. All that on the PSP. Loved the HD remake of it.

Is Portable Ops not canon? Feels like it wasn't from what I"ve read but also seems iffy cuz some aspects of it are still mentioned?

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Mr. Chaverria

MGS1 was remaded into Twin Snakes. And it was fun but it also created issues. Voice acting was poor in some aspects. It used MGS2 mechanics in an MGS1 world. Made it so much easier. Kitamura's involvement in the cutscenes pushed the action too much most of the time. HOWEVER, I did enjoy what he did w/ Gray Fox at the end. It really did some cool stuff w/ him.

MGS1 to work as a remake would mean you'd need to expand it vastly in scope to hold true to what made the original work in its time. To make it feel right. Where Twin Snakes didn't feel right but still enjoyable.

MG1 and MG2 totally deserve remakes. They're games that not a lot have played. And they don't lend themselves well when playing the series today. I'd love to see those two games retconnned and remade to match better to what MGS is now. I say that but also think MGS5 (and the storied entries before it) went too far w/ the tech to not match up where MGS1 was laid at. Regardless, the revelations of MGS5 and it's impact onto MG1 and MG2 would be fascinating to see. But, they went too far w/ the tech from MGS3 to MGS5. Really wished the tech was a bit tapered back more in MGS3. But then the entries after it went crazy to where by MGS1... Rex, while still cool, is out of date w/ the tech. I loved MGS3, Peace Walker, and MGS5. Man, I might think Peace Walker is best one of the Big Boss games. It just surprised me a lot. All that on the PSP. Loved the HD remake of it.

Is Portable Ops not canon? Feels like it wasn't from what I"ve read but also seems iffy cuz some aspects of it are still mentioned?

This is a complaint made against hte game that I never got. At no point in the game do you ever have to use the MGS2 mechanics. The example thats always cited is the Ocelot fight but that can be played without first person aiming just as it was originally intended

What do you mean too much with the tech? The series should be evolving and not held stagnant to what was introduced in 2003

[Zechs Merquise]

Originally Posted by Mr. Chaverria

Is Portable Ops not canon? Feels like it wasn't from what I"ve read but also seems iffy cuz some aspects of it are still mentioned?

Very iffy. It's mentioned briefly in Peace Walker but Peace Walker basically ignores it entirely and, aside from Snake, I don't think any Portable Ops characters show up in Peace Walker to contradict it, either.

Originally Posted by Havok83

This is a complaint made against hte game that I never got. At no point in the game do you ever have to use the MGS2 mechanics

Then what was the point of them? It's just like the dog tags in Twin Snakes. You can collect dog tags same as MGS2 but you get absolutely nothing for doing so (unlike MGS2 where collecting dog tags will get you the stealth camouflage, the infinity bandanna, the wigs, etc), leading to the question 'Well, what was the point of them?'

This is exactly the problem with Twin Snakes. The game design is very sloppy. The game designers thought to themselves 'wouldn't it be cool if we put in all these features from MGS2' but never gave a single thought to how this would completely change the game when they've kept (most) of the maps and other elements exactly the same.

Saying 'oh you don't have to use those features' is not really an argument. The game designers implemented those features intending for you to use them, otherwise why play the game? Why not just play the original?

Originally Posted by Havok83

What do you mean too much with the tech? The series should be evolving and not held stagnant to what was introduced in 2003

I suspect he's referring to how the world of MGSV looks more technologically advanced than the world of MGS1, 2 & 4 even though it's supposed to be set in the past

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Zechs Merquise

Very iffy. It's mentioned briefly in Peace Walker but Peace Walker basically ignores it entirely and, aside from Snake, I don't think any Portable Ops characters show up in Peace Walker to contradict it, either.
Then what was the point of them? It's just like the dog tags in Twin Snakes. You can collect dog tags same as MGS2 but you get absolutely nothing for doing so (unlike MGS2 where collecting dog tags will get you the stealth camouflage, the infinity bandanna, the wigs, etc), leading to the question 'Well, what was the point of them?'

This is exactly the problem with Twin Snakes. The game design is very sloppy. The game designers thought to themselves 'wouldn't it be cool if we put in all these features from MGS2' but never gave a single thought to how this would completely change the game when they've kept (most) of the maps and other elements exactly the same.

Saying 'oh you don't have to use those features' is not really an argument. The game designers implemented those features intending for you to use them, otherwise why play the game? Why not just play the original?
I suspect he's referring to how the world of MGSV looks more technologically advanced than the world of MGS1, 2 & 4 even though it's supposed to be set in the past

Options? It exists if you want to, not that you have to. Games often contain multiple ways to defeat a boss, not just one. You go with the original way if you want a challenge and if its too hard, there existed an easier way

Oh I didnt get that angle and I can see it. I thought he was referring to going open world as opposed to staying corrider based

[Zechs Merquise]

Originally Posted by Havok83

Options? It exists if you want to, not that you have to. Games often contain multiple ways to defeat a boss, not just one. You go with the original way if you want a challenge and if its too hard, there existed an easier way

The game HAD options. If you couldn't shoot Ocelot (or ran out of bullets), you could blow him up with carefully placed C4 instead. If you couldn't go hand to hand with Cyborg Ninja, you could use a chaff grenade on him and shoot him instead. If you couldn't use the second controller port with Psycho Mantis, you could get a Game Over, continue and shoot the busts instead. If you didn't want to snipe Sniper Wolf (in the second fight) you could use your Stinger missiles instead. I could go on.

You are defending poor game design. There is practically no reason to use the hanging mode in Twin Snakes, except for one small area with the steam pipe and the nitroglycerin that make the key card sequence much shorter. In MGS2, you literally can't beat the game without using the hanging mode. In Twin Snakes there's absolutely no reason to improve your grip strength in the hanging mode so you can hang for longer. In MGS2 you need to improve your grip strength if you want to collect all the dog tags and get all the special items. In Twin Snakes there's no real reason to use first person aiming, except that it makes the game significantly easier. In MGS2 there are areas in the game where you need to be able to aim at and hit targets in first person, and without sniping.

The point of the first Metal Gear Solid is that each area and most bosses are a puzzle to be solved. The new features negate or eliminate that entirely. Yes, I suppose you could just play the game without using them, but most won't and the game designers didn't include them just so you could not use them.

[jimidini]

Originally Posted by Zechs Merquise

In MGS2, you literally can't beat the game without using the hanging mode.

In MGS2 it's still almost not used.
And upgrading it is a pain unless you do the ledge fall-grab trick, and not required at all for the regular game.

You say that collecting dog tags doesn't get you anything, but it's still a fun thing to do.

For collecting all you get the stupid blue wig in MGS2, which is kinda pointless and lame.
You get unlimited ammo for only collecting a few, stealth ammo for collecting a few more. In MGS1 you get these for beating the game already.

In my opinion stealth should be the unlockable for getting them all, and should not get awarded in advance.

The problem with this is even that the time to create this remake was too short.They wanted to add VR missions and more, and simply didn't have enough time, that's why it's a let down, but it's not a let down that was done intentionally, but because it was rushed. They had planned more, that's why I would like a re-release with new content.

I also never understood the argument about the cutscenes being action heavy. The cutscenes are cool, and original MGS1 didn't make sense either. Fighting a tank on foot, using grenades? Ridiculous.

And in fact the cutscenes were so over-the-top, because Kojima pushed for that. It was about delivering something new and fresh and not the same, which to me makes sense.

the 30 minute trailer is still a pleasure to watch.

METAL GEAR SOLID THE TWIN SNAKES TGS 2004 EPIC LONG TRAILER - YouTube

And I even imported the gamecube bonus disc, released in Japan, which contains it.

[Zechs Merquise]

Originally Posted by jimidini

The problem with this is even that the time to create this remake was too short.They wanted to add VR missions and more, and simply didn't have enough time, that's why it's a let down, but it's not a let down that was done intentionally, but because it was rushed. They had planned more, that's why I would like a re-release with new content.

They could have had all the time in the world to develop Twin Snakes and it still would have been lacklustre.

- More development time doesn't change the fact that the maps just aren't designed for the new mechanics

- More development time doesn't change the fact that the newly recorded voice performances are inferior to the original

-More development time doesn't change the fact that most of the music is bland and inferior to the original (they cut out the iconic Alert theme)

-More development time doesn't change the fact that Ryuhei Kitamura's cutscene direction is terrible and frankly distracting, regardless of whether or not Kojima told him to make it that way

Literally the only good thing about Twin Snakes was the updated graphics and even that comes with the caveat that the game graphically underperforms compared to what the Gamecube was capable of

[navydavey]

Pretty much agree with everything above regarding Twin Snakes, the original is superior in every way except (objectively) graphics.

A 'Master Collection' really should have included Twin Snakes as a companion peice though, like how the NES versions of the MG & MG2 are included.

Perhaps an 'Ultimate Collection' in another decade will finally get a chance.