Center Speakers(do they have to match fronts?)

[zodiak]

Taking a break from my quest to find a receiver, my question is does the center speaker have to be match the fronts in terms of brand ie polk?

what is important in the center speaker?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by zodiak

Taking a break from my quest to find a receiver, my question is does the center speaker have to be match the fronts in terms of brand ie polk?

what is important in the center speaker?

Yes, the three front speakers work best if they are timbre matched. Ideally, three identical vertical speakers is the best option.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by zodiak

Taking a break from my quest to find a receiver, my question is does the center speaker have to be match the fronts in terms of brand ie polk?

what is important in the center speaker?

Yes the best sound will come from timbre matching you're front 3 speakers !
All 3 speakers should be the same brand ! All 3 of mine are the same speaker !!

[Rob J in WNY]

Indeed, the center channel speaker's role in multichannel cinema audio cannot be overstated. On some high-end setups, the center channel speaker may even be larger than the L & R fronts! That is a rarity, though.

Your center channel speaker will be responsible for carrying 50 to 75 percent of a movie's multichannel surround audio, and practically all of the vocal dialog. Having a center channel is one thing, but having a great center channel is so much more. Clean vocalization is challenging to reproduce. Muddled, more indistinct dialog is the bane of entry-level and basic center channel speakers. A quality center channel speaker offers precise, detailed midrange response, making for more distinguishable vocal dialog.

The importance of matching your center channel to your fronts, as stated, has to with "timbre" matching, or the ability for all three front speakers to reproduce sound identically across the entire audible sound spectrum. This comes into play more so for the front soundstage than for the surround speakers (although timbre-matching surrounds is not a bad idea if it can be done).

You'll hear sounds pass from left to right (or vice versa) right through your center channel as well. If the speakers have similar or exact timbre, then you will not perceive a change, or shift, in the tonal quality of the audio as the sounds pan across your soundstage. Without timbre-matched speakers, the difference can be quite noticeable, deteriorating sonic imagery.

You can compensate a little bit for mis-matched center vs. fronts if your receiver has channel-selective multi-band equalizers, but it will only get you so far. One can adjust specific frequencies to create a closer match, but in the end, all the aspects of timbre cannot be controlled by equalization alone. Matching your center and fronts is the easiest and best solution. Generally, making sure that the center channel uses the same drivers as the fronts is the first and foremost step to selecting the match for your fronts.

Check out crazyBLUE's theater setup (posted above this). Three Boston Acoustic floorstanding towers, all identical. Now THAT'S about as timbre-matched as it gets!

Hope this helps!

[JasonR]

I had a Polk center channel in my current setup and decided to go without until budget allows if that tells you anything....

[callas01]

Originally Posted by zodiak

Taking a break from my quest to find a receiver, my question is does the center speaker have to be match the fronts in terms of brand ie polk?

what is important in the center speaker?

From your other thread about the reciever you were discussing getting just the front 2 speakers first, is that still the same or are you planning on getting the front 3 now too?? Also, do you have a budget in mind? and What brands are you considering? Or have you even thought that far?

[zodiak]

thanks for the info.....the plan is still two fronts the add in center & sub

with such importance on the center if you cant have three towers as one member has what are some of the better centers?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Indeed, the center channel speaker's role in multichannel cinema audio cannot be overstated. On some high-end setups, the center channel speaker may even be larger than the L & R fronts! That is a rarity, though.

Your center channel speaker will be responsible for carrying 50 to 75 percent of a movie's multichannel surround audio, and practically all of the vocal dialog. Having a center channel is one thing, but having a great center channel is so much more. Clean vocalization is challenging to reproduce. Muddled, more indistinct dialog is the bane of entry-level and basic center channel speakers. A quality center channel speaker offers precise, detailed midrange response, making for more distinguishable vocal dialog.

The importance of matching your center channel to your fronts, as stated, has to with "timbre" matching, or the ability for all three front speakers to reproduce sound identically across the entire audible sound spectrum. This comes into play more so for the front soundstage than for the surround speakers (although timbre-matching surrounds is not a bad idea if it can be done).

You'll hear sounds pass from left to right (or vice versa) right through your center channel as well. If the speakers have similar or exact timbre, then you will not perceive a change, or shift, in the tonal quality of the audio as the sounds pan across your soundstage. Without timbre-matched speakers, the difference can be quite noticeable, deteriorating sonic imagery.

You can compensate a little bit for mis-matched center vs. fronts if your receiver has channel-selective multi-band equalizers, but it will only get you so far. One can adjust specific frequencies to create a closer match, but in the end, all the aspects of timbre cannot be controlled by equalization alone. Matching your center and fronts is the easiest and best solution. Generally, making sure that the center channel uses the same drivers as the fronts is the first and foremost step to selecting the match for your fronts.

Check out crazyBLUE's theater setup (posted above this). Three Boston Acoustic floorstanding towers, all identical. Now THAT'S about as timbre-matched as it gets!

Hope this helps!

Rob,

This may be one the most easily understood posts on the importance of why timbring-matching your Fronts & Centre is critical for a proper experience. An excellent explanantion with easy to understand examples, and might I add...very eloquantly written. Well done indeed!

John

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by zodiak

thanks for the info.....the plan is still two fronts the add in center & sub

with such importance on the center if you cant have three towers as one member has what are some of the better centers?

That depends on what speakers sound good to you and your budget. If you were to get the Polks as you referenced, you just want to make sure you get the center that matches that line of Polks. Their website will help you with matching a center with any fronts you may be looking at.

However, it all comes down to what fronts you decide on and what sounds good to your ears. If you are talking manfacturers, and want an "entry"level speaker, then there is the afroementioned Polks or Klipsch, but there are so many others to choose from. The following is a speaker manufacturer's list from Big Daddy that may help you or you could browse the threads for that particular speaker brand you may be interested in to pick up more information......good luck!

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=100022

[StimpsonJCat]

Good, Better, Best.

Good: Timbre matching speakers (same Tweeter helps this)
Better: Same speakers (LCR - with a horizontal center)
Best: Same speakers vertical (like Crazy has)

I've always had timbre matched speakers and have been happy with the front soundstage. I recently went with the E70's (LCR) accross the front and was shocked at how big a difference it made. A seamless front soundstage is a beautiful thing.

If I had a choice between running a phantom center and a non-timbre matced center I would go with the phantom. If there is any way you can have the same speaker for all three I highly recommend it.

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat

Good, Better, Best.

Good: Timbre matching speakers (same Tweeter helps this)
Better: Same speakers (LCR - with a horizontal center)
Best: Same speakers vertical (like Crazy has)

I've always had timbre matched speakers and have been happy with the front soundstage. I recently went with the E70's (LCR) accross the front and was shocked at how big a difference it made. A seamless front soundstage is a beautiful thing.

If I had a choice between running a phantom center and a non-timbre matced center I would go with the phantom. If there is any way you can have the same speaker for all three I highly recommend it.

great example. i never thought about getting the same speaker.
the problem is what happens if you want TOWERS for the front l/r.....most people dont want or dont have room for a 3rd tower in front of the tv

[rkolinski]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

great example. i never thought about getting the same speaker.
the problem is what happens if you want TOWERS for the front l/r.....most people dont want or dont have room for a 3rd tower in front of the tv

Well, I purchased a Movie Mate CCH1 Television Shelf made by OmniMount and mounted it above the center of my 60" Sony. Place a Definitive Tech center channel speaker on the shelf with the shelf angled down slightly. And I have 2 Definitive TOWERS for the left and right front. Using an SPL meter helped in making everything sound awesome. Just because you have 2 TOWERS doesn't mean that all of the front speakers have to be towers. Three towers only work if you have a front projector or if your HDTV is mounted high up on the wall. Hope this helps; just MHO!

[StimpsonJCat]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

great example. i never thought about getting the same speaker.
the problem is what happens if you want TOWERS for the front l/r.....most people dont want or dont have room for a 3rd tower in front of the tv

Very true. I can't even have my center (LCR) vertical because I like my TV low for easy viewing (comfort is king!). If you have towers then most setups won't work with this.

I love my VR2s, but I couldn't be happier with my E70's for HT. For music they do ok with a decent sub, but I only miss the towers on music (just a bit). Of course if I can ever find a deal for E100 towers I'll jump at it. It would be really crazy to have three E100's (They are LCR as well - 6 ft tall) for the front soundstage.

If I ever get a projection setup I'll get an acoustic transparent screen and have three towers behind it.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

great example. i never thought about getting the same speaker.
the problem is what happens if you want TOWERS for the front l/r.....most people dont want or dont have room for a 3rd tower in front of the tv

I know, the room demographics make it very difficult. If I could I would....how about using a surround speaker (like one of the 40's) verticially, would they be better than your C1 horizontal center? Check out some of the specs.......

They both have a power rating of 20-125 watts/channel and each have 2X5.25" drivers and 1X1" tweeter, but get this.....the 40 can get down to 47Hz while the C1 can only get down to 55Hz.....so theoretically, you could have a vertical center (albeit a surround one) and you might actually have better performance. They would still timber match as well.....if you had a little bit of room under your TV this might work?

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

I know, the room demographics make it very difficult. If I could I would....how about using a surround speaker (like one of the 40's) verticially, would they be better than your C1 horizontal center? Check out some of the specs.......

They both have a power rating of 20-125 watts/channel and each have 2X5.25" drivers and 1X1" tweeter, but get this.....the 40 can get down to 47Hz while the C1 can only get down to 55Hz.....so theoretically, you could have a vertical center (albeit a surround one) and you might actually have better performance. They would still timber match as well.....if you had a little bit of room under your TV this might work?

well the 40s are the same as my cs1....5.25" woofers (2 of them)
would there be a difference?
if this is the case then why not use 3 cs2 center channel speakers across the front stage?!

i like stimpson idea of a transparent screen with the speakers hidden behind the screen......just like a real movie theater

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

well the 40s are the same as my cs1....5.25" woofers (2 of them)
would there be a difference?
if this is the case then why not use 3 cs2 center channel speakers across the front stage?!

i like stimpson idea of a transparent screen with the speakers hidden behind the screen......just like a real movie theater

None except the 40 gets down a bit lower (47Hz as comapred to the C1's 55Hz). I was adding this as an alternative if someone really wanted a vertical speaker, but can't fit a tower, not to mention adding a little bit more to your front soundstage......

[callas01]

Originally Posted by zodiak

thanks for the info.....the plan is still two fronts the add in center & sub

with such importance on the center if you cant have three towers as one member has what are some of the better centers?

A lot of times if you go to the manufactures websites they will give you recommended systems and you can see what Centers speakers they would match with a particular Tower speaker. You can tell by looking that the larger centers are always paired to the towers and the smaller ones paired to the bookshelf systems. This is done so that you don't have a center channel has to be turned up constantly to hear the dialog and turned down when action occurs, rather you get a smoother overall sound that flows well together across your sound stage.

Here are some examples
Paradigm on that page, pay attention the systems that say Monitor, click on them and it will show you the systems as they should match up

Energy
PSB

[callas01]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

None except the 40 gets down a bit lower (47Hz as comapred to the C1's 55Hz). I was adding this as an alternative if someone really wanted a vertical speaker, but can't fit a tower, not to mention adding a little bit more to your front soundstage......

except, with a crossover applied how far down the speaker gets to really doesn't matter cause you are crossing it over to the sub anyways. I think the important part is that they are of the same size tweeter and close to or matching woofer size so that the towers don't drown out the center.

[aramis109]

When I was changing out speakers, I used a Polk Monitor 40 (bookshelf speaker) on it's side as a center. It didn't sound as good as the near-identical CS2 when placed like that, but it did work ok as a stopgap.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by aramis109

When I was changing out speakers, I used a Polk Monitor 40 (bookshelf speaker) on it's side as a center. It didn't sound as good as the near-identical CS2 when placed like that, but it did work ok as a stopgap.

Did you get to play with the 40 upright? Just curious, as I'm not interested in doing this, but more for my own information......