120hz Without Any Smoothing? - Blu-ray Forum

Zach Shaffer · 07-12-2009, 06:34 AM

Hello,
I've been browsing the site and it's reviews for a while now (in preparation of the first HT purchase/setup) and decided it was time to sign up and get some answers to the final question regarding my setup.

120hz - if I am using this strictly for the Blu-ray (and not using any motion smoothing) is there a discernible/noticeable difference between a 60hz and 120hz?

This is the catalyst. I have no objections to purchasing the 120hz (if it will truly make things "better") but if it isn't that big of a deal - I am just going to save the money.

I will be watching strictly film on this. Maybe some gaming here and there.

Thank you for any help at all!

- Z

hienesey · 07-12-2009, 06:59 AM

IMO they look the same.

4K2K · 07-12-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Shaffer

120hz - if I am using this strictly for the Blu-ray (and not using any motion smoothing) is there a discernible/noticeable difference between a 60hz and 120hz?

When displaying 24fps movies, the 60hz TV will have 3:2 pull-down judder, because 60 is not evenly divisible by 24. 60/24=2.5. So it has to repeat some fields/frames more than others so will get the added "3:2" pull-down judder.

A 120hz TV will not have the added "3:2 pull-down" judder, because 120 is evenly divisible by 24. 120/24=5, so each film frame is repeated 5 times, without showing some frames for a longer time than others.

Zach Shaffer · 07-12-2009, 07:28 AM

Thank you both for the replies. Much appreciated.
I am still not completely sold on the 120hz (Need more research/feedback)

Gotta figure this out by Monday though!

NuSoardGraphite · 07-13-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Shaffer

Thank you both for the replies. Much appreciated.
I am still not completely sold on the 120hz (Need more research/feedback)

Gotta figure this out by Monday though!

120hz is a good thing. Its the "sweet spot" for 24fps Film and 30fps/60fps video sources. Also, most videogames are ouput at either 30fps or 60fps. With a 120hz display, there should be no "judder" from any of the above sources because each is divisible into 120 resulting in a whole number.

While 60hz tv's have no issue with 30fps/60fps video, 24fps film sources don't gel with 60hz, thus 3/2 pulldown was invented to solve this issue (see the explaination above)

Thus 120hz is a natural evolution for display framerates. Its not necessary per se, but it certainly makes things easier on your diplay and for those who can spot pulldown judder.

For the record, I've watched 2 movies at 24p on my 60hz Sammy thus far and have spotted no judder. It was a very smooth viewing experience, but a lot of people report seeing judder during long panning shots. I've seen it a lot on TV myself.

The thing thats pretty much 100% gimmick at this point is 240hz or greater refresh rates. Now that's unnecessary!

4K2K · 07-13-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite

The thing thats pretty much 100% gimmick at this point is 240hz or greater refresh rates. Now that's unnecessary!

We should have 600hz

(including from the Blu-ray player to the TV).

My_Two_Cents · 07-13-2009, 12:25 AM

Are you set on LCD? I ask, because it sounds like you are looking for the best bang-for-your-buck, and if that's the case, then you should look at the 2009 Panasonic Vieras. For those not interested in the motion interpolation look and wanting to view content the way it was intended, you won't be able to match the picture of a good plasma with a comparably-priced LCD. My opinion, of course, but shared by many others.

brdmaverick · 07-13-2009, 03:00 AM

Sorry, I'm not a tech junkie, but I can at least tell you this....I have an LCD tv with the 120 Hz feature, and I think that it is absolutely fantastic. The 3D affect it has on the picture makes it looks like super HD, and makes your regular DVDs look like blu's.

Zach Shaffer · 07-13-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Are you set on LCD? I ask, because it sounds like you are looking for the best bang-for-your-buck, and if that's the case, then you should look at the 2009 Panasonic Vieras.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've narrowed it down to the following...

... The Vizio SV420M and the Panasonic TC-P42S1.

Most likely the Panasonic- but if I get impatient (I've been slowly building up the HT for too long now) I just might go buy the Vizio LCD.

Kryptonic · 07-13-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Are you set on LCD? I ask, because it sounds like you are looking for the best bang-for-your-buck, and if that's the case, then you should look at the 2009 Panasonic Vieras. For those not interested in the motion interpolation look and wanting to view content the way it was intended, you won't be able to match the picture of a good plasma with a comparably-priced LCD. My opinion, of course, but shared by many others.

+1

If you want a smooth and natural image, get plasma. If you want an unnatural image and motion-sickness, go for an LCD. 120hz is horrible looking on LCD's. It makes everything look like video.

ZedsDead · 07-13-2009, 12:36 PM

I have a 120 hz LCD and have really enjoyed it. I have not experienced any downsides from it, I may just not be as sensitive to this kind of thing as some people are. This is my second LCD and I havn't tried a plasma yet, not sure why but I think I have an innate tendency towards LCD.

My_Two_Cents · 07-13-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Shaffer

Thanks for the recommendation! I've narrowed it down to the following...

... The Vizio SV420M and the Panasonic TC-P42S1.

Most likely the Panasonic- but if I get impatient (I've been slowly building up the HT for too long now) I just might go buy the Vizio LCD.

Please don't do that!

You are looking at two sets near the opposite ends of the quality/performance spectrum. This is not something on which you want to make a rash decision because you are impatient. Remember, this is a choice you will need to be happy with for many years to come. Whatever you need to do, save a little bit extra for the Pany. You WILL thank me later.

langn08 · 07-13-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

+1

If you want a smooth and natural image, get plasma. If you want an unnatural image and motion-sickness, go for an LCD. 120hz is horrible looking on LCD's. It makes everything look like video.

dereksworl · 07-13-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

+1

If you want a smooth and natural image, get plasma. If you want an unnatural image and motion-sickness, go for an LCD. 120hz is horrible looking on LCD's. It makes everything look like video.

Did you read the OP? he said he will not be using the motion enhancements. 120Hz is not what causes the "horrible looking" picture, its the frame interpolation. For the average joe, without the frame interpolation on, you probably wouldn't even know the LCD was 120Hz.....

Jtodd · 07-13-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

+1

If you want a smooth and natural image, get plasma. If you want an unnatural image and motion-sickness, go for an LCD. 120hz is horrible looking on LCD's. It makes everything look like video.

That is absolutley ridiculous,the 120hz on my sammy is outstanding.I think its a matter of opinion I personally love the 120hz especially on the opening seen of i am legend!

Another_Dude · 07-13-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

+1

If you want a smooth and natural image, get plasma. If you want an unnatural image and motion-sickness, go for an LCD. 120hz is horrible looking on LCD's. It makes everything look like video.

I have 120" of 1080p 120hz LCD goodness that strongly disagrees with you.

langn08 · 07-13-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another_Dude

I have 120" of 1080p 120hz LCD goodness that strongly disagrees with you.

kpkelley · 07-13-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

If you want a smooth and natural image, get plasma.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

If you want an unnatural image and motion-sickness, go for an LCD. 120hz is horrible looking on LCD's. It makes everything look like video.

Motion interpolation makes them look like video, not 120hz. Thankfully that can be turned off.

matriq · 07-13-2009, 03:58 PM

Smoothing is great for games and sports. I turn it off for movies.

langn08 · 07-13-2009, 04:03 PM

My automotion settings depend on what movie I am watching. I have it on high for animated movies and low or off for any others.

07-12-2009, 06:34 AM	#1
Zach Shaffer Junior Member Member since:Jul 2009 Blu-ray collection:10	120hz Without Any Smoothing? Hello, I've been browsing the site and it's reviews for a while now (in preparation of the first HT purchase/setup) and decided it was time to sign up and get some answers to the final question regarding my setup. 120hz - if I am using this strictly for the Blu-ray (and not using any motion smoothing) is there a discernible/noticeable difference between a 60hz and 120hz? This is the catalyst. I have no objections to purchasing the 120hz (if it will truly make things "better") but if it isn't that big of a deal - I am just going to save the money. I will be watching strictly film on this. Maybe some gaming here and there. Thank you for any help at all! - Z

07-12-2009, 07:28 AM	#4
Zach Shaffer Junior Member Member since:Jul 2009 Blu-ray collection:10	Thank you both for the replies. Much appreciated. I am still not completely sold on the 120hz (Need more research/feedback) Gotta figure this out by Monday though! Last edited by Zach Shaffer; 07-12-2009 at 07:36 AM.

07-13-2009, 12:36 PM	#11
ZedsDead Senior Member Member since:Jul 2009 Home Theater Gallery:28 Blu-ray collection:94	hmm I have a 120 hz LCD and have really enjoyed it. I have not experienced any downsides from it, I may just not be as sensitive to this kind of thing as some people are. This is my second LCD and I havn't tried a plasma yet, not sure why but I think I have an innate tendency towards LCD.

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07-12-2009, 06:59 AM	#2
hienesey Active Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Dallas, TX Blu-ray collection:291 Trading Score:35	IMO they look the same.

07-13-2009, 12:25 AM	#7
My_Two_Cents Blu-ray Knight Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Wherever I may roam.... Home Theater Gallery:40 4K collection:35 Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:19 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:4	Are you set on LCD? I ask, because it sounds like you are looking for the best bang-for-your-buck, and if that's the case, then you should look at the 2009 Panasonic Vieras. For those not interested in the motion interpolation look and wanting to view content the way it was intended, you won't be able to match the picture of a good plasma with a comparably-priced LCD. My opinion, of course, but shared by many others.

07-13-2009, 03:00 AM	#8
brdmaverick Banned Member since:Jan 2009 Blu-ray collection:24 Blu-ray reviews:7 Trading Score:4	Sorry, I'm not a tech junkie, but I can at least tell you this....I have an LCD tv with the 120 Hz feature, and I think that it is absolutely fantastic. The 3D affect it has on the picture makes it looks like super HD, and makes your regular DVDs look like blu's.

07-13-2009, 03:58 PM	#19
matriq Junior Member Member since:May 2008 Home Theater Gallery:14	Smoothing is great for games and sports. I turn it off for movies.

07-13-2009, 04:03 PM	#20
langn08 Expert Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Fox Cities WI Home Theater Gallery:14 Blu-ray collection:373 Trading Score:6	My automotion settings depend on what movie I am watching. I have it on high for animated movies and low or off for any others.

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