Lossless through analog...

[mzo0163]

Does anyone else not noticed much (or any) difference between lossless audio through analog over DD or DTS though optical. The analog connection seems to lack bass and sounds less powerfull. Unless for some reason im doing something wrong I was fairly dissapointed. The main reason I replaced the samsung 1500 with the Pioneer 51FD was to enjoy HD sound since I needed the analog outputs for my receiver. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

[dobyblue]

I find when using analog most players you have to bump up the .lfe channel by around 10dB if it doesn't perform bass management in the player.

Try going into the analog level output on your player and see how much you can add gain - usually Pio's are +6dB. Then bump your sub channel on the rcr up by another 4dB or so.

When I was using a Pioneer DV-45a for SACD/DVD-A hooked up through multi-channel analogs this is how I had to set-up everything to get accurate bass response.

[SlmShdy1]

To start off, it sounds like you have the right player and receiver in order to get lossless audio through an analog connection. You're going to want to get a few pairs of RCA Stereo cables (three or four depending on whether you want 5.1 or 7.1). For the subwoofer, you'll want to get a RG6 Digital Coax cable. Also, always make sure you select the lossless audio track on the disc menu when watching a movie. As far as the bass goes, I'm not too familiar with the Pioneer, but you'll want to see if it has any options for bass management. There, you will be able to pump it up.

Edit: It looks like the 51FD does have bass management but it does not work properly. You'll have to play around with it to see what you like.

[mzo0163]

I must have not been very clear about the terminology. I am using 3 pairs of analog cables for the lossless track on the analog out connection. I was talking about comparing the sound quality of the analog connections with the lossless track v.s. using the digital cables with the DD/ DTS tracks. I have boosted the gain for the sub in the player menu and also on my receiver and it still doesnt seem that great. I also made sure I selected the Lossless track in the menu. Why would I need to get an RG6 digital cable for the subwoofer? Do you mean from the player to the receiver or the receiver to the sub? Right now I have analogs from the player to the reciever, then a monster subwoofer cable from the reciever to the sub. Thanks.

[crackinhedz]

mzo, you will need to set up your speakers when using analog (some players have options in the player, but most likely it will need to be done in the receiver)...speaker levels, distance etc.

[SlmShdy1]

Originally Posted by mzo0163

I must have not been very clear about the terminology.Why would I need to get an RG6 digital cable for the subwoofer? Do you mean from the player to the receiver or the receiver to the sub? Right now I have analogs from the player to the reciever, then a monster subwoofer cable from the reciever to the sub. Thanks.

Nope, I misread your first post.

Reading through these forums, I always see the RG6 cable come highly recommended as the sub cable (receiver to sub). Like I said before, your 51FD does have bass management, but the problem I've been reading about involves having too much bass. On the other hand, you're not getting enough.

[mzo0163]

when you say bass managment Im assuming that you mean an adjustable crossover and speaker level settings. On the player I have my crossover set to 80hz, and the SW channel set to the highest (+6). On my receiver I have the SW channel set to almost max on the analog connection. Im not saying that im barely getting any bass out of the soundtrack its just not as dynamic to me as it was when using an optical cable and just having Dolby Digital track. The main point im trying to make is Im not very impressed with this whole HD sound upgrade. But maybe its only worth it with an HDMI receiver that will decode the HD audio

[BIslander]

After making the analog cable connections, you need to do all speaker setups in the player and do a system calibration.

Speaker setups include configuration information (5.1, 7.1, etc), large/small designations for bass management, and timing adjustments for speakers that are not the same distances from the main listening position.

LFE is recorded 10dB lower than its proper playback level and must be boosted by the receiver or at the sub itself. If you set any speakers to small in the player, the sub output is dropped another 5dB, meaning you need to apply 15dB of boost. If your processor has a setting to boost the analog subwoofer output, it's pretty simple to get solid bass response. But, if it doesn't have that option, you need to work harder to come up with the needed boost while not screwing up your previously calibrated digital sources. With some receivers, it's not even possible to calibrate for both digital and analog simultaneously.

Once those steps are done, get out your SPL meter and calibrate.

It is my personal experience that lossless isn't necessarily better than lossy on Blu-ray. The DTS core and the companion DD 5.1 tracks are encoded at higher bitrates on Blu than on DVD and they sound great. So, you may not hear much improvement from lossless.

Also, bear in mind that when you compare analog from a player with lossy digital decoded by your receiver, you are comparing more than just the codecs. Analog uses the player's DACs. Digital uses the DACs in the receiver. With lossy digital, you can use your receiver's room correction tools, too. With some rooms that could make a big difference.

Originally Posted by mzo0163

On the player I have ... the SW channel set to the highest (+6). On my receiver I have the SW channel set to almost max on the analog connection. Im not saying that im barely getting any bass out of the soundtrack its just not as dynamic to me as it was when using an optical cable and just having Dolby Digital track.

You need 15dB of boost when using bass management and I doubt you are getting that much with the approach you have taken. If you don't have a receiver setting to do a +15dB analog SW boost, I suggest you set the player SW output back to 0 (yes) and then turn up the sub itself until the bass response matches what you get from DD 5.1 processed by your receiver. Turning up the sub itself will mean too much bass for digital sources. So, you will need to go back to your receiver and lower the SW output there by the same amount you turned it up at the sub. That should get the digital calibration back where it was in the first place.

[mzo0163]

Sounds good, Thanks everyone for the fast responses

[Lucy Diamond]

I have a relatively calm set up and I prefer the multi-chanel analog outs when I can use them.

I have a Yamaha RX-v1800 with a 7.1 cycle of Paradigm speakers and when something is pcm or trueHD, I get to use the multi out and I love it.

I don't find the need for more bass at all and I rather enjoy how the low end is evened out through the analog.