Uncompressed sound problems

[DeadMike]

Hello all,

I am brand new to the forums and could not find if this issue has already been discussed. I am also not very tech smart on theater systems, so I don't know all the terms. I'll start with the equipment I am using:

Panasonic DMP-BD10A Blu-ray player
Sony STR-DG920 Receiver
I am using an HDMI cable between the two
I also have some older (5 or 6 years) Kenwood speakers (5.1), with standard speaker wires, and a coax for the sub

My problem is this, when watching TV (via HDMI) my 5.1 sound is great. Watching old DVD's, 5.1 sound is great. Watching Blu-rays, sound is hit and miss. When I use any of the HD sound types sometimes it sounds "grainy". I don't know how else to describe it. The speech sounds terrible, almost like though a cell phone. Sound effects seem ok, but I might not be able to tell b/c I tend to get too frustrated to continue watching the disc. And like I said, it does not happen on all Blu-ray's.

Any clue what can be causing this? Since HD sound is 7.1 and I have a 5.1 setup would that make a difference? My instinct says no, but you never know. Could it be the age/quality of my speakers? The Sony receiver has an auto calibration that I have completed, and like I said, all other sound quality is great. So I am quite stumped. Please let me know any ideas on a solution.

[solarrdadd]

howdy, welcome to blu-ray.com and the forum! i've checked out the components you've listed and they are both nice units, the blu & the receiver. i have a couple of questions/issues, i know the blu player can bitstream, while watching blu-ray movies, are you setting it to bitstream out and if so are you still having audio issues--does the receiver light up to state the codec for lossless i.e. DTS-HD-MA or Dolby True HD? you listed your post as "uncompressed sound problems but nowhere in the body of your post do you mention uncompressed audio. are you watching a particular blu movie that has uncompressed audio and you are having issues with it? again are you bitstreaming or sending it LPCM? if your player is decoding the audio onboard then sending it out to the receiver for play only then it will go to the reciever as LPCM and the receiver will probably say it's "multichannel LPCM" or something to that effect. if it's being bitstreamed out to the receiver (sent out as raw data for the receiver to do the decoding) then refer to what i asked earlier.

please state how your player and receiver are set up as far as HD audio is concerned. also, please list the blu movie you are having problems with even if your answer is it's all of them then list at least 3 - 4.
another thing, when playing these blu movies are you playing them with the lossy DD then trying the lossless HD codec DTHD and saying that it's the lossless codec that is giving you the trouble on those (or that) particular blu movie or are you actually refering to a lossless blu that only offers an uncompressed HD audio option?

oh, HD sound is not 7.1, HD sound is HD sound. it can be in many speaker layouts, depending on how they wanted it mastered. the most common modes are 2.0, 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 that's only how many channels (speakers) will give sound. if your system is 7.1 capable and you are playing a 5.1 encoded movie then you will only get sound from 5 speakers + the sub, 5.1
best of luck, we will wait to get some more info from you and answer some of the questions i asked it will help me and other members to help you.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

I know the blu player can bitstream, while watching blu-ray movies, are you setting it to bitstream

Unfortunately the Panasonic DMP-BD10A can only decode (PCM) TrueHD via HDMI, Bitstream is not capable.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by DeadMike

Sony STR-DG920 Receiver

My first question is do you have the HDMI Audio output set to AMP? or AMP+TV?

...should just be AMP.

[DeadMike]

Awesome!

I really didn't understand all the information you were asking for, so I was inspired to poke around my Blu-ray audio out settings. All were set to PCM, I switched to bitstream and now it is working perfectly! Thanks for all your help.

The discs I was having problems with were Hereos season 2&3, and Bangkok Dangerous.

I really appreciate all your help, thanks for taking the time to assist a blockheaded newbie.

[crackinhedz]

Just keep in mind you are not getting any HD audio. Sadly its just the limitation of the player.

But 5.1 any which way still sounds great.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Unfortunately the Panasonic DMP-BD10A can only decode (PCM) TrueHD via HDMI, Bitstream is not capable.

you are correct hedz, i didn't read it correctly in the review of the player. however he can get HD audio if he uses the 7.1 analog out to his receivers 7.1 analog in and lets the player decode the HD audio internally. he needs to buy the cables (if you don't have a bunch of money goe with monoprice.com if you don't mind spending a little more i'd recommend bluejeanscable.com) that is the only way he can get HD audio; do you agree hedz?

[crackinhedz]

again, unfortunately no.

The Panasonic 10A is an anomaly. TrueHD decoding is only supported over the HDMI connection. This was a huge topic back in the early days of the format wars...we use to have a resident Sony Insider "Paidgeek" who relayed this info to us when it came about. I'm not sure Paidgeek still frequents bluray.com anymore, have not seen him around. And I wish I could find his posts...but its been so long ago.

So analog is not an option either.

[crackinhedz]

You know what, completely forget anything I just said!

I am completely wrong. I decided to look up Paidgeeks posts and found it https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...190#post686190, but I was mistaken, it had to do with the Sony S300 not out putting over analog.

Solaardadd you are correct, it will decode TrueHD, and will probably output over analog.

[solarrdadd]

i did read a bunch of reviews on the unit (and this time i read them carefully) and it did say that it would decode both DTS-HD-MA or Dolby True HD onboard and send them out via the analog 7.1 on the players out to your receiver. it noted that the earlier adopters of the model 10 unlike this model 10a would have to download the firmware to give them the ability to decode those lossless codecs onboard. so he would be able to get DTS-HD-MA, Dolby True HD or uncompressed all via the 7.1 analog. and it will also play DVD-A (i love this & SACD with my Oppo i love high quality music!)if he is into music and he can put that out via analog too!

[DeadMike]

So to clarify, if I want HD sound with my current equipment, I need analog wiring from my player to receiver (also obviously set my blu-ray player to output audio over analog not HDMI). If I keep using only HDMI with this model player, I will never be able to get HD sound? Doesn't this kinda defeat the idea of using HDMI? I could have just kept my component video and audio wiring. Would I notice the difference in sound quality if I switched to analog?

If I was made of money and just bought a brand new, state of the art, Blu-ray player this problem would disappear and I would have HD sound over HDMI?

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by DeadMike

So to clarify, if I want HD sound with my current equipment, I need analog wiring from my player to receiver (also obviously set my blu-ray player to output audio over analog not HDMI). If I keep using only HDMI with this model player, I will never be able to get HD sound? Doesn't this kinda defeat the idea of using HDMI? I could have just kept my component video and audio wiring. Would I notice the difference in sound quality if I switched to analog?

If I was made of money and just bought a brand new, state of the art, Blu-ray player this problem would disappear and I would have HD sound over HDMI?

The reason you can't get the HD codecs over HDMI is due to the limitations of the players design choices in that it uses an HDMI version lower than ver 1.3 - i'm not sure what ver it is either but i know its not 1.3 or higher which is needed to stream the HD codecs via bitstream; talk to panny about that, not HDMI.
if you like the player and don't mind not seeing the HD-Codec lights light up on your player then go analog and you'll be fine.
if you don't want to go analog and you want everything HDMI then yes, you need to buy a new, modern machine. If you have the money, I have no problem recommending the Oppo BDP-83 player; it's the best player on the market for the money, in fact it's the best player for 3 times the amount it cost! It plays all blu's bitstreams all HD codecs via HDMI, it will also, if you choose decode all HD codecs onboard and stream them via HDMI as LPCM to your receiver or via 7.1 analog. the Oppo will also play DVD-A & SACD media. It will also send SACD in it's native DSD via HDMI, not many players that support SACD can do that, they usually convert it to a PCM then stream it.
again, if you can deal with the analog, then your player is fine until you start reaching a point where you can't play certain movies and i don't think the player (for it's age) is supported by panny anymore so your on your own.

so, stay or go Oppo, the choice is yours. (i'd go oppo if i were you!)

[BIslander]

To the best of my knowledge, the BD10A does not decode dts-MA. It does DD+, TrueHD, and DTS-HD HRA, but not Master Audio. solarrdadd, where did you see information about the addition of Master Audio decoding?

As for replacing the player, I doubt you are going to hear much improvement from a newer model. You can get HD audio now for everything except dts-MA by having the player do the decoding for output over HDMI or multichannel analog. The DTS core track used instead of dts-MA also sounds great, so the lack of dts-MA decoding does not seem like a big deal to me. Actually, the older DD 5.1 tracks on BD also sound very good and you may not hear much, if any, improvement with lossless TrueHD either. (The older DTS and DD 5.1 codecs are less compressed on BD and sound better than the versions you get on DVD as a result.)

However, if I recall this correctly, I believe the BD10A has an LFE bug that affects HDMI output (not analog). LFE is incorrectly dropped an extra 5dB. If you set speakers to small, this bug means you can never get the LFE mix quite right. So, analog is probably the way to go if you want to use lossless decoding in this player.

The BD10A is an early generation player. It was an excellent machine and it plays DVD-Audio, which is a great feature. But, it's slow and Profile 1.0. So, you may want to consider a new player for reasons unrelated to audio.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by BIslander

To the best of my knowledge, the BD10A does not decode dts-MA. It does DD+, TrueHD, and DTS-HD HRA, but not Master Audio. solarrdadd, where did you see information about the addition of Master Audio decoding?

As for replacing the player, I doubt you are going to hear much improvement from a newer model. You can get HD audio now for everything except dts-MA by having the player do the decoding for output over HDMI or multichannel analog. The DTS core track used instead of dts-MA also sounds great, so the lack of dts-MA decoding does not seem like a big deal to me. Actually, the older DD 5.1 tracks on BD also sound very good and you may not hear much, if any, improvement with lossless TrueHD either. (The older DTS and DD 5.1 codecs are less compressed on BD and sound better than the versions you get on DVD as a result.)

However, if I recall this correctly, I believe the BD10A has an LFE bug that affects HDMI output (not analog). LFE is incorrectly dropped an extra 5dB. If you set speakers to small, this bug means you can never get the LFE mix quite right. So, analog is probably the way to go if you want to use lossless decoding in this player.

The BD10A is an early generation player. It was an excellent machine and it plays DVD-Audio, which is a great feature. But, it's slow and Profile 1.0. So, you may want to consider a new player for reasons unrelated to audio.

You are Correct on the codec, it will do DTS High Resolution, not HD-MA. If he wants a complete modern package (and he seems to by his own questioning at the end of the post that i answered) he should just get a newer modern player that takes care of his needs completely. as far as replacing it for reasons other than audio, it seems that audio was his question and his complaint about the machine. i'd say, if he can deal with the audio issue (and i don't think he wants to) he can keep the player until it dies or begins to have issues playing newer titles then get a new one or just go ahead and get a new one for all of those reasons we have mentioned. there will be improvments in the audio, video and the features of profile 2.0, and usb media. those are the reasons i bought a new machine, i still have my older one in the basement connected to my pc lcd as a secondary player but i upgraded to a newer on for all of those reasons i mentioned and i have never been happier!