Record Cleaners

[Riff Magnum]

I've seen a few on audiogon and was wondering if anyone has one or has any experience with one? I visited a really good record store yesterday and i've gotten the vinyl itch once more. I really had a serious vinyl habit about 10 years ago, but i never really invested in a great TT or amp/speaker setup. Most of my records haven't been played since then so i was wondering if cleaning them would be a good idea?
BTW, i plan on upgrading my speakers, TT, pre/pro, and amp section before returning to the wax fold.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I've seen a few on audiogon and was wondering if anyone has one or has any experience with one? I visited a really good record store yesterday and i've gotten the vinyl itch once more. I really had a serious vinyl habit about 10 years ago, but i never really invested in a great TT or amp/speaker setup. Most of my records haven't been played since then so i was wondering if cleaning them would be a good idea?
BTW, i plan on upgrading my speakers, TT, pre/pro, and amp section before returning to the wax fold.

Hi Riff!

Cleaning them is very definately worth it and you have tons of options. You could get a RCM, but they are expensive. I used to have a Nitty Gritty 1.5 and it did an amazing job. There are a lot of very good manual cleaning systems out there for around $100 and they do a decent job.

I really neat system for about $150 is the GEM Dandy. A little unorthodox in its use and appearance, but it works very well.

Nice to hear you're returning to the wonderful world of Vinyl!

John

[Riff Magnum]

Well, I saw a VPI on audiogon for about $499. Granted this is a ways down the road for me, but i like to get as much of my facts straight before i jump in the fire.
This is an unrelated question, but i think you might be able to answer it while i've got your attention.

I want to upgrade speakers to at least a 5.1 system, maybe 7.1, for movies, but i also want to listen to 2 channel music via vinyl. Since most speakers have 2 sets of terminals could i realistically have a rack with a TT, phono pre, 2 channel power amp and have that power amp feeding my front towers? Then in another rack have my BD/DVD player, preamp, 5 channel or 7 channel power amp(depending on my setup) and have that power amp feeding all my speakers for movies and multichannel music?

I guess i just don't have the room for a dedicated 2 channel listening environment, but i'd still like to keep my vinyl signal all analog with out having to buy multiple sets of speakers.

Feel free to set me straight as i tend to ramble.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

Well, I saw a VPI on audiogon for about $499. Granted this is a ways down the road for me, but i like to get as much of my facts straight before i jump in the fire.
This is an unrelated question, but i think you might be able to answer it while i've got your attention.

For that kind of money, you could buy a brand new VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine.

I want to upgrade speakers to at least a 5.1 system, maybe 7.1, for movies, but i also want to listen to 2 channel music via vinyl. Since most speakers have 2 sets of terminals could i realistically have a rack with a TT, phono pre, 2 channel power amp and have that power amp feeding my front towers? Then in another rack have my BD/DVD player, preamp, 5 channel or 7 channel power amp(depending on my setup) and have that power amp feeding all my speakers for movies and multichannel music?

I guess i just don't have the room for a dedicated 2 channel listening environment, but i'd still like to keep my vinyl signal all analog with out having to buy multiple sets of speakers.

Feel free to set me straight as i tend to ramble.

Don't do what you propose above! Instead, make sure you buy a sereo preamp with an HT bypass input; this, with your TT and stereo amp and speakers will make up your 2-chanel system. For HT, buy a pre/pro or receiver with pre outs and send the front L & R to the HT bypass input of your 2-channel preamp. That way you only have one set of cable to mess about with, and your 2-channel sound isn't compromised (i.e., stays all-analogue).

[Riff Magnum]

Originally Posted by richteer

For that kind of money, you could buy a brand new VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine.


I think it was a new VPI 16.5.

Don't do what you propose above! Instead, make sure you buy a sereo preamp with an HT bypass input; this, with your TT and stereo amp and speakers will make up your 2-chanel system. For HT, buy a pre/pro or receiver with pre outs and send the front L & R to the HT bypass input of your 2-channel preamp. That way you only have one set of cable to mess about with, and your 2-channel sound isn't compromised (i.e., stays all-analogue).

I've read this several times and just when i think i get it..................i lose it.

So, I'm still buying two preamps (one phono, one for HT) and i'm still buying two power amps (one 2 channel for vinyl, the other however many channels i need for HT)?

So, the phono preamp needs to have the HT bypass, right?
I think i'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around what components would be plugged in where and in what order.

Just curious, what's the danger/problem in setting it up the way i first proposed?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I've read this several times and just when i think i get it..................i lose it.

So, I'm still buying two preamps (one phono, one for HT) and i'm still buying two power amps (one 2 channel for vinyl, the other however many channels i need for HT)?

So, the phone preamp needs to have the HT bypass, right?
I think i'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around what components would be plugged in where and in what order.

Just curious, what's the danger/problem in setting it up the way i first proposed?

NO! The STEREO pre-amp needs the HT bypass.

John

[Riff Magnum]

Originally Posted by John72953

NO! The STEREO pre-amp needs the HT bypass.

John

You mean the preamp i'd be using for my HT?

[Drew664]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I've read this several times and just when i think i get it..................i lose it.
So, I'm still buying two preamps (one phono, one for HT) and i'm still buying two power amps (one 2 channel for vinyl, the other whatever i need for HT)?

So, the phone preamp needs to have the HT bypass, right?
I think i'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around what components would be plugged in where and in what order.

Just curious, what's the danger/problem in setting it up the way i first proposed?

This is just going to be an example for illustration purposes. I've hyper linked equipment to Emotiva, again because I'm familiar with their products and so you can see what is needed.

Turn Table connects to a stereo preamplifier (a HT bypass option keeps your signal pure, and does not interfere with HT use), which connects to your receiver (through RCA), which connects to 2 channel outboard amp (through RCA), which is connected to your main speakers that are used for HT and 2 channel listening (through speaker wire).

Now, in this setup you can still use everything for HT with an addition of a 3 channel amp for 5 channel sound or a 5 channel amp for 7 channel sound.

[Riff Magnum]

Originally Posted by Drew664

This is just going to be an example for illustration purposes. I've hyper linked equipment to Emotiva, again because I'm familiar with their products and so you can see what is needed.

Turn Table connects to a stereo preamplifier (a HT bypass option keeps your signal pure, and does not interfere with HT use), which connects to your receiver (through RCA), which connects to 2 channel outboard amp (through RCA), which is connected to your main speakers that are used for HT and 2 channel listening (through speaker wire).

Now, in this setup you can still use everything for HT with an addition of a 3 channel amp for 5 channel sound or a 5 channel amp for 7 channel sound.

I'm starting to get it now. When you say "connects to receiver" above, i'm assuming you mean my HT receiver or pre/pro? I'm assuming you didn't provide and emotiva link because theirs hasn't been released yet?
Although, am i correct in assuming that most dedicated 2 channel vinyl setups use tube amps and preamps? I was under the impression that all the emotiva stuff was digital.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

You mean the preamp i'd be using for my HT?

YES!

The Phono preamp (phono stage...same thing) only controls your TT. It is dedicated to the performance of your TT...nothing else. Many people, if not most, don't even use a phono preamp and instead connect it directly to their AVR or Pre-amp (if it can be done).

John

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I'm starting to get it now. When you say "connects to receiver" above, i'm assuming you mean my HT receiver or pre/pro? I'm assuming you didn't provide and emotiva link because theirs hasn't been released yet?
Although, am i correct in assuming that most dedicated 2 channel vinyl setups use tube amps and preamps? I was under the impression that all the emotiva stuff was digital.

I think most dedicated 2-channel vinyl lovers would prefer a Tube Amp/Pre-amp configuration, but that can get really expensive. As such, most use Solid State amp configurations. It's a matter of dollars and preference.

John

[Riff Magnum]

Gotcha!! I probably fall into the latter category anyways. It's gonna be hard enough to convince the wife to let me buy new speakers, TT, amps, preamps, etc. regardless of whether they're tube or not.
Heard some PSB imagines at my local hi-fi shop and i'm really leaning that way once i get the funds. What is it with canadians being able to make such great musical equipment? My first guitar amp was a traynor and i still think they're insanely underrated.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

Gotcha!! I probably fall into the latter category anyways. It's gonna be hard enough to convince the wife to let me buy new speakers, TT, amps, preamps, etc. regardless of whether they're tube or not.
Heard some PSB imagines at my local hi-fi shop and i'm really leaning that way once i get the funds. What is it with canadians being able to make such great musical equipment? My first guitar amp was a traynor and i still think they're insanely underrated.

The reason is simple....Canada's National Research Council! It has been used by many of Canada's audio innovators from amp to speaker companies....all free of charge.

John

[Drew664]

This might help. It's not perfect, but again, it should give you an idea of how it'll look/work.

[Riff Magnum]

That's perfect. Thanks so much for your help guys.

Not so fast. One question. What receiver would i plug my Bluray player into? Just seems the front two speakers wouldn't get a signal if i was plugging it into my HT receiver.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

That's perfect. Thanks so much for your help guys.

Not so fast. One question. What receiver would i plug my Bluray player into? Just seems the front two speakers wouldn't get a signal if i was plugging it into my HT receiver.

If you were using HDMI you would run the HDMI out from the Blu-ray player into either the Pre/Pro or receiver. If you were running analog 2 channel out from the Blu-ray, you would run that into the Preamp (though that could also be run into the Pre/Pro or receiver); multichannel analog out from the Blu-ray would go into the Pre/Pro or receiver.

Also, the 2 front channels that would normally run out from the Pre/Pro or the receiver to the amps would run into the input Preamp. The Preamp Bypass would be needed for the purpose of using the the Preamp as part of the Home Theater. Outputs from the Preamp would run to the front channel amps. The volume of the Preamp would need proper output adjustment to work with the rest of the Home Theater components and the Preamp would be supplying the input to the front amps and speakers. The Preamp and would also need to be on for the whole Home Theater with the front 2 channels.

Rich

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I've read this several times and just when i think i get it..................i lose it.

So, I'm still buying two preamps (one phono, one for HT) and i'm still buying two power amps (one 2 channel for vinyl, the other however many channels i need for HT)?

So, the phono preamp needs to have the HT bypass, right?
I think i'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around what components would be plugged in where and in what order.

Just curious, what's the danger/problem in setting it up the way i first proposed?

To address the latter first, you don't want to wire two separate amps to the same speakers at the same time (unless you're bi-amping, which is a different kettle of fish).

The rest of the answer depends on how important 2-channel audio is to compared to movie sound. For example, stereo is much more important to me than surround sound, so I would never set up my system (if I ever get one capable of surround sound!) in a manner that compromises the stereo's performance.

So, I'd have a decent stereo preamp feeding a decent power amp(s) feeding my front L & R. The TT would be connected to this preamp. For HT I'd have a receiver or pre/pro, with all channels connect to a multichannel amp and speakers, except for the front L & R. Those would be fed to the stereo preamp's HT bypass input. The Blu-ray player would be connected to the pre/pro, so that the surround sound is processed correctly.

Is that a bit clearer? A picture would probably be helpful!

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

Although, am i correct in assuming that most dedicated 2 channel vinyl setups use tube amps and preamps?

I don't think that's true--I would think that solidstate gear is more prevalent that tubes. That said, I use a tubed preamp and tubed monoblock amps in my dedicated vinyl system!

[Riff Magnum]

Originally Posted by Drew664

This might help. It's not perfect, but again, it should give you an idea of how it'll look/work.

I know, I know, i'm being thick here.
Ok, using Drew's diagram above, how would a bluray player be intergrated into the system? I'm assuming the receiver on the left is an A/V HT receiver and the one to the right is the 2 channel stereo preamp. I just wanna understand how all speakers would receive input from all sources even though it appears the front two channels would get bypassed when using the HT receiver.

[Drew664]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I know, I know, i'm being thick here.
Ok, using Drew's diagram above, how would a bluray player be intergrated into the system? I'm assuming the receiver on the left is an A/V HT receiver and the one to the right is the 2 channel stereo preamp. I just wanna understand how all speakers would receive input from all sources even though it appears the front two channels would get bypassed when using the HT receiver.

The secret is in the stereo preamps ability to do HT Bypass. When that option is selected on the preamp, then the signal goes right on through. The stereo preamp may or may not have to be turned on for this to happen, that depends on the unit itself.