3-D, PS3, Receivers, New HDTVs --- Question!

[Stoyanov]

Hi,

I have this setup:

• Yamaha RX-V463 Receiver
• SONY Bravia 46" HD-Ready TV-set (yes, 720p/1080i)
• PS3 Slim, newly bought

PS3 connected to HDMI in on receiver, HDMI out of receiver to HDTV.

So, it's great news that the PS3 will support 3D Blu-rays out-of-the-box with a firmware update.

However, I'm quite aware that I will need to get a new TV next year. Preferably one of those Full HD LEDs. Probably new cables, too.

The question: if the PS3 can support 3D with an update, will I need a new amp? I.e. can the receiver transfer the 3D data with the new cables?

I have invested a lot in this so I would hate to get a new receiver! A new HDTV is fine...

So is it known yet?

Thanks!

[Stoyanov]

Anyone?

[mike_assetize]

i think you will need a new receiver... not just for the 3d capability, but also a quick-spec check on google for your receiver shows it doesnt support the HD audio (DTS HD, TrueHD)... so you would want a new receiver for those formats anyway (which needs HDMI 1.3 I think)...

so since the ps3 also supports HDMI 1.3, this should prob be the minimum that would be required... I dont think 3d support will require anything higher since sony said the ps3 can handle the 3d blurays with a firmware update...

hope that helps!

[Uniquely]

I know on 3D tv's... at least the ones that are out currently.... you have to plug the 3D source into a particular HDMI input on the tv. I am uncertain if current receivers will pass a 3D signal. If not that would leave one with the choice of whether they want 3d or lossless audio.

[STARSCREAM]

It will flat out suck if to watch 3D you have to listen to the movie through the tv speakers!

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by mike_assetize

i think you will need a new receiver... not just for the 3d capability, but also a quick-spec check on google for your receiver shows it doesnt support the HD audio (DTS HD, TrueHD)... so you would want a new receiver for those formats anyway (which needs HDMI 1.3 I think)...

so since the ps3 also supports HDMI 1.3, this should prob be the minimum that would be required... I dont think 3d support will require anything higher since sony said the ps3 can handle the 3d blurays with a firmware update...

hope that helps!

HDMI 1.4 is required for 3D Full HD or 1080p to each eye

The Playstation 3 and all HDMI 1.3 capable 3D devices will half the resolution of any 3D signal.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by STARSCREAM

It will flat out suck if to watch 3D you have to listen to the movie through the tv speakers!

Well I'm sure you could still use optical direct from your player to your receiver, unless the PS3 is unable to support HDMI audio and optical audio simultaneoulsy

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

HDMI 1.4 is required for 3D Full HD or 1080p to each eye

The Playstation 3 and all HDMI 1.3 capable 3D devices will half the resolution of any 3D signal.

Please provide proof. Other reports have said HDMI 1.3 devices could do full-res 3-D at 1080p48.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by RBBrittain

Please provide proof. Other reports have said HDMI 1.3 devices could do full-res 3-D at 1080p48.

Everything I have read on the subject has said 1.3 will only do half resolution and 1.4 is needed for full 1080P. I believe it's a bandwidth issue.

[DaViD Boulet]

There *may* be a way that the PS3 can pack the two eyes together into a single 1080p60 or 1080p48 stream (after all, 2 x 1080p24 = 1080p48) over HDMI 1.3.

the catch will be having a 3D display that would recognize the content as 3D and separate the two eyes for full 1080p stereo reproduction... chances are that most displays, even 3D ones, will just assume that any 1080p signal over HDMI 1.3 is a standard 2D, or that they'll have a "slave" mode where they don't add processing but don't give you full resolution.

This confusion over 3D and HDMI 1.3 hopefully will be cleared up the end of CES!

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

There *may* be a way that the PS3 can pack the two eyes together into a single 1080p60 or 1080p48 stream (after all, 2 x 1080p24 = 1080p48) over HDMI 1.3.

the catch will be having a 3D display that would recognize the content as 3D and separate the two eyes for full 1080p stereo reproduction... chances are that most displays, even 3D ones, will just assume that any 1080p signal over HDMI 1.3 is a standard 2D, or that they'll have a "slave" mode where they don't add processing but don't give you full resolution.

This confusion over 3D and HDMI 1.3 hopefully will be cleared up the end of CES!

Update: It's more confused than ever.

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Update: It's more confused than ever.

Let's stop with the FUD.

Actually, at CES we had two confirmations... one by the Sony tech (which I wouldn't have trusted on its own) and the other by Steve Venuti from the HDMI group (which we can trust) who confirmed that what the PS3 is doing is getting updated to the full 3D spec part of the HDMI 1.4 standard. Naturally things can't magically appear on the HDMI 1.3 chipset that weren't there before... like ethernet functionality and the two-way audio ability, but for 3D the PS3 will be for all intents and purposes acting as a true HDMI 1.4 source device.

How cool is that everyone?

So if you have a PS3 and get the update, it's like buying a 3D blu-ray player with HDMI 1.4 (as far as the 3D ability of 1.4 is concerned). Hook up to your HDMI 1.4 HDTV and you're good to go.

There's also a possibility that the 3D signal will make it through your HDMI 1.3 switcher/receiver, but that will be confirmed on a model-by-model basis as no generalization can be made.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Let's stop with the FUD.

In several posts and new threads, I've quote manufacturer reps and others who clearly state that these putative "standards" - both for broadcast and recorded media - are fluid.

You can call this fear, uncertainty, and doubt; they aren't using the term "fear", which I'm not using, either.

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Actually, at CES we had two confirmations... one by the Sony tech (which I wouldn't have trusted on its own) and the other by Steve Venuti from the HDMI group (which we can trust) who confirmed that what the PS3 is doing is getting updated to the full 3D spec part of the HDMI 1.4 standard. Naturally things can't magically appear on the HDMI 1.3 chipset that weren't there before... like ethernet functionality and the two-way audio ability, but for 3D the PS3 will be for all intents and purposes acting as a true HDMI 1.4 source device.

Please provide a published cite for this. You don't like "FUD"; I don't like hype.

Especially from the people at the HDMI specs group, that brought us this mess in the first place.

While you're at it, see if they've addressed any other equipment besides PS3's - not the entire world owns game machines.

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

How cool is that everyone?

It's meaningless, since it doesn't address but one type of media source - the PS3 - and 4.5 million devices were sold in October, November, and December, and they definitely were not all PS3's.

This also doesn't address the various standards for broadcast, cable, and satellite video.

It's not very cool at all.

There is, as I said, more confusion than ever.

[Blu-Dog]

I like the juxtaposition of these two quotes.

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Let's stop with the FUD.

And then...

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

There's also a possibility that the 3D signal will make it through your HDMI 1.3 switcher/receiver, but that will be confirmed on a model-by-model basis as no generalization can be made.

Classic post.

So, when are these model-by-model specifications going to be turned loose?

What possible difference would the individual model make if it met one spec or another, for HDMI?

There is still massive confusion about this mess.

[DaViD Boulet]

Here's the link where Steve Venuit, President of the HDMI group, explains how the PS3 will be updated to pass a real "1.4" spec 3D signal to an HDMI 1.4 display:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLeOx2n1So4

So, when are these model-by-model specifications going to be turned loose?

What possible difference would the individual model make if it met one spec or another, for HDMI?

Although the HDMI 1.3 cable allows up to 1080p120, since up until this time no 1080p120 signals have been available, it's not certain if all devices are really performing to that level. And so for 3D signals that use 1080p120 bandwidth, not all HDMI 1.3 switchers will work.

The only way to know is to test them.

Most 3D signals from the PS3 will actually be basically 1080p48 (2 x 1080p24) from film material. Again, since we don't currently use 1080p48 signals in the present, the only way to know for sure that an HDMI 1.3 switcher will work is to physically test the unit.

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

So if you have a PS3 and get the update, it's like buying a 3D blu-ray player with HDMI 1.4 (as far as the 3D ability of 1.4 is concerned). Hook up to your HDMI 1.4 HDTV and you're good to go.

There's also a possibility that the 3D signal will make it through your HDMI 1.3 switcher/receiver, but that will be confirmed on a model-by-model basis as no generalization can be made.

So, what, exactly, is the point of HDMI 1.4 then? Especially if 1.3 can be firmware updated to do the same thing? Why would the PS3 be the only device that is firmware updatable to do this? Is 3D "marketing/piggybacking" on the other additional features of 1.4 just to push 1.4?

Originally Posted by robinandtami

Everything I have read on the subject has said 1.3 will only do half resolution and 1.4 is needed for full 1080P. I believe it's a bandwidth issue.

HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4 have the exact same bandwidth capabilities/limitations. Which makes me wonder, why do we need 1.4 again?

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

HDMI 1.4 is required for 3D Full HD or 1080p to each eye

The Playstation 3 and all HDMI 1.3 capable 3D devices will half the resolution of any 3D signal.

Can you provide proof? Especially since 1.2 & 1.4 have the same bandwidth. Let's hope this isn't the case.

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Most 3D signals from the PS3 will actually be basically 1080p48 (2 x 1080p24) from film material. Again, since we don't currently use 1080p48 signals in the present, the only way to know for sure that an HDMI 1.3 switcher will work is to physically test the unit.

Let's hope that 1.4 isn't a mandate for full 3D 1080p resolution. I'm starting to believe that this "idea" of requiring 1.4 is a political agenda to get us to buy more product even though 1.3 would meet the standard. I'm still trying to figure out how the PS3 (with HDMI 1.3) could do this with a firmware update but other set-top players couldn't. Just doesn't seem right? I am really watching the market closely on this.

[DaViD Boulet]

So, what, exactly, is the point of HDMI 1.4 then? Especially if 1.3 can be firmware updated to do the same thing? Why would the PS3 be the only device that is firmware updatable to do this? Is 3D "marketing/piggybacking" on the other additional features of 1.4 just to push 1.4?

The PS3 is a very different beast than the average 2.0 Blu-ray player. But who knows, perhaps there are other existing players that can be updated.

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

The PS3 is a very different beast than the average 2.0 Blu-ray player. But who knows, perhaps there are other existing players that can be updated.

How different can it be? I understand that it has massive processing power, but all the processing in the world won't change hardware from one version to the next. THe HDMI hardware within the PS3 was built when 1.3 was the standard. If it's true that 1.4 requires a hardware update, then that would include the PS3 AS WELL AS all other BD players.

If the PS3 can be firmware updated to support full-res 3D output over an HDMI 1.3 port, so should all other HDMI 1.3 Blu-Ray players.

I'm telling you, if the PS3 gets a firmware update for full rez 3D and it's the only device that can do it, I will NOT update to 3D as I will honestly believe that it is some kind of conspiracy. And I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories.

[DaViD Boulet]

The PS3 is an advanced gaming machine built on the CELL processor and explicity designed from the beginning with the intention to add new and at times fundamentally different functionality over time via firmware updates.

The PS3 also happens to have a blu-ray disc drive and to play blu-ray discs.

It's not a stand-alone blu-ray player, and it's not a conspiracy to suggest that typical stand-alone blu-ray players may not be capable of every firmware upgrade that the PS3, by design, can accomodate.

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

The PS3 is an advanced gaming machine built on the CELL processor and explicity designed from the beginning with the intention to add new and at times fundamentally different functionality over time via firmware updates.

The PS3 also happens to have a blu-ray disc drive and to play blu-ray discs.

It's not a stand-alone blu-ray player, and it's not a conspiracy to suggest that typical stand-alone blu-ray players may not be capable of every firmware upgrade that the PS3, by design, can accomodate.

David, I agree that the PS3 is a powerful device and I do understand that it was designed to accomodate complex firmware updates. But there's not a firmware update in the world that can change hardware.

Blu-Ray players can update firmware as well. But all software/firmware (no matter how good it is) cannot change the hardware.