SMALL or LARGE w/o Subwoofer?

[JckToWN10]

Hello, hope everyone had a great Holiday. Quick question; If i decide to give my sub a rest, I know that my fronts should be set to Large, but should i set my center and surrounds to Large also? My set up is below. Thanks and Happy New Year!

Yamaha NS-777 (fronts), NS-444 (center), and NS-333 (surrounds)

[Steve]

A couple of questions first:

- Why would you discontinue using your sub?

- What model of receiver do you have?

[ZIPPO]

I'd say set towers large, center & surrounds small, based on the frequency response numbers.

NS-777( towers )= 30Hz - 35kHz
NS-C444( center )= 55Hz - 35kHz
NS-333( surrounds )= 65Hz - 35kHz


Usually when you tell your receivers bass management that you have no subwoofer, it routes bass to the left & right channels. Which in your case, can handle it. You might overload/damage your center & surrounds if you set them to large. If you had five NS-777's as your speakers, it would probably be fine to set them all large.

[tbizzle]

Originally Posted by ZIPPO

I'd say towers only, based on the frequency response numbers.

NS-777= 30Hz - 35kHz
NS-C444= 55Hz - 35kHz
NS-333= 65Hz - 35kHz

+1. Towers are generally the only speakers that are set to large, and the surrounds/center set at 80Hz

How come you're droppin the sub?

[Twitch9]

set all to large or small with individual crossovers just below the low frequency of the speakers in the receiver settings, personally i would set them to large, it won't hurt the speaker but this way you will all the frequencies the speakers can handle. When you bring the sub back into the mix set them all to small.

Without a sub you want to get everything out of the speakers that they can handle, if you set crossovers at 80hz and they can produce 65hz you are losing out on some bottom end.

[JckToWN10]

I knew that question was going to be asked. LOL. To be honest, im not sure. I feel that it will last longer if i dont use it as much (thats just me). Plus, we watch more movies with music and dialog then action movies with lots of bass. I have the RX-V663 and the sub is YST-SW315.

[JckToWN10]

Originally Posted by Twitch9

set all to large or small with individual crossovers just below the low frequency of the speakers in the receiver settings, personally i would set them to large, it won't hurt the speaker but this way you will all the frequencies the speakers can handle. When you bring the sub back into the mix set them all to small.

Without a sub you want to get everything out of the speakers that they can handle, if you set crossovers at 80hz and they can produce 65hz you are losing out on some bottom end.

When you say "individual crossovers", are you saying that i can set the crossover for each speaker. When i set the crossover in my reciever, its only 1 option and i have it set at 80hz (thats with the sub on, and the crossover on the sub all the way up). Is there a way that i could set a crossover for each speaker? I dont know much at this point so i appreciate your help.

[Big Daddy]

If you have a good subwoofer that is properly placed in your room, all other speakers should be set to SMALL, regardless of their frequency response.

The low frequency extension of my front speakers is 15Hz and I still set them to SMALL with a crossover of 40Hz or 60Hz. I experimented with both frequencies and prefer 60Hz. All other speakers are set at 80Hz.

Get over the psychological problem with the word SMALL.

SMALL = The speakers are bass managed.

LARGE = The speakers are not bass managed.

[progers13]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If you have a good subwoofer that is properly placed in your room, all other speakers should be set to SMALL, regardless of their frequency response.

The low frequency extension of my front speakers is 15Hz and I still set them to SMALL with a crossover of 40Hz or 60Hz. I experimented with both frequencies and prefer 60Hz. All other speakers are set at 80Hz.

Get over the psychological problem with the word SMALL.

SMALL = The speakers are bass managed.

LARGE = The speakers are not bass managed.

Sorry, maybe I'm being immature, but THAT, Big Daddy, was FUNNY!

[Twitch9]

Originally Posted by JckToWN10

When you say "individual crossovers", are you saying that i can set the crossover for each speaker. When i set the crossover in my reciever, its only 1 option and i have it set at 80hz (thats with the sub on, and the crossover on the sub all the way up). Is there a way that i could set a crossover for each speaker? I dont know much at this point so i appreciate your help.

Some receivers have an advanced selection where you can set the crossovers for the fronts, center surrounds, and surround backs if not bypass the crossover and set to large with out the sub, when you bring your sub back into the mix set all speakers to small and adjust the crossover to 80hz witch is a good starting point.

[Steve]

Do you guys not think the OP's receiver will be a little strained trying to run his mains at large/rull range?

[ZIPPO]

Originally Posted by fireman325

Do you guys not think the OP's receiver will be a little strained trying to run his mains at large/rull range?

Good point. A powered sub handling the low end relieves the receivers burden.

[Rob J in WNY]

Originally Posted by fireman325

Do you guys not think the OP's receiver will be a little strained trying to run his mains at large/rull range?

I don't think it will, unless it is being abused/overdriven/clipped. I ran a system without sub for years - fronts set to large. A sub still sounded better, though.

As for the OP, as long as at least one set of speakers is set as large (being the speakers most able to handle low-frequency response the best - and ideally the front speakers), then any frequencies below the crossover frequency will be routed to and reproduced by the "large" speakers - no matter what channel they exist on.

To be sure, it is easier on the amplifier to have all speakers set as small (which allows for more available power/SPL due to the lack of current draw in amplifying the lowest frequencies), but running speakers with full-range sound (large) is also a normal function as well. Clipping and distortion will occur earlier with speakers set as large, but for moderate and some high-level listening, this should not be a problem at all.

[ZIPPO]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

I don't think it will, unless it is being abused/overdriven/clipped. I ran a system without sub for years - fronts set to large. A sub still sounded better, though.

As for the OP, as long as at least one set of speakers is set as large (being the speakers most able to handle low-frequency response the best - and ideally the front speakers), then any frequencies below the crossover frequency will be routed to and reproduced by the "large" speakers - no matter what channel they exist on.

To be sure, it is easier on the amplifier to have all speakers set as small (which allows for more available power/SPL due to the lack of current draw in amplifying the lowest frequencies), but running speakers with full-range sound (large) is also a normal function as well. Clipping and distortion will occur earlier with speakers set as large, but for moderate and some high-level listening, this should not be a problem at all.

I didn't know that. Makes sense. With the left & right channels subbing for the sub, they have to provide LFE plus bass for all other channels. Thanks!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by ZIPPO

I didn't know that. Makes sense. With the left & right channels subbing for the sub, they have to provide LFE for all other channels. Thanks!

I posted this in another thread and will copy it here for the members' benefit.

You have to distinguish between the LFE (.1) bass and the bass that goes to the other speakers. Theoretically, all 5 channels receive full range signals. What comes out of the subwoofer is the LFE (.1) channel (put there by sound engineers) plus the redirected bass below the high pass filters (crossovers) from the speakers that are set to SMALL.

It is also important to remember that the LFE (.1) channel has signals up to 120Hz. That is why the Low Pass Filter (LPF) of the LFE channel should be set to 120Hz in the receiver's menu.

Unfortunately, receivers do bass management differently, depending on the age of the receiver and/or the manufacturer. In general, we can make the following conclusions.

Case 1.
Set all speakers to LARGE
Subwoofer: NO

There will be not any sound through the LFE channel. The LFE (.1) bass will be redirected to the front speakers.

Case 2.
Set all speakers to LARGE
Subwoofer: YES (if the receiver allows this)

The subwoofer receives the LFE (.1) information. All other speakers receive their full range frequencies.

Case 3.
Set the front speakers to LARGE. All other speakers to SMALL.
Subwoofer: NO

The front speakers receive the redirected LFE (.1) channel plus the redirected bass from the other speakers.

Case 4.
Set front speakers to LARGE. All other speakers to SMALL.
Subwoofer: YES

The front speakers receive their full range signals. The subwoofer receives the LFE (.1) channel plus the redirected bass below the high pass filters (crossovers) of the speakers that are set to SMALL.

Case 5.
Set the front and all other speakers to SMALL.

In this case, the subwoofer has to be set to YES. Most, if not all, receivers will set it to YES by default.

The speakers receive the signals above the high pass filters (crossovers). The subwoofer receives the LFE (.1) channel plus the redirected bass from all the speakers, including the front speakers.

[JckToWN10]

Well i appreciate everyones help. I think i will just leave the sub on and leave it alone. Plus it gets annoying changing settings all the time (doesnt take long, but annoying). I do have one more question though if you guys dont mind. Do you think my RX-V663 is good enough (power wise) for the speakers i have, being that its 95W per channel? Thats something ive been wondering lately. It sounds good to me but i just wanted to ask. Thanks again

[Steve]

I'm sure it's fine. My only question was the power demand difference between running speakers at small with a sub vs. setting your mains to large.

[JckToWN10]

Originally Posted by fireman325

I'm sure it's fine. My only question was the power demand difference between running speakers at small with a sub vs. setting your mains to large.

Cool. Thanks Steve, love tha setup man. Take care

[Steve]

Originally Posted by JckToWN10

Cool. Thanks Steve, love tha setup man. Take care

Thanks.

[PCOLASHAN]

I have your exact setup, minus the receiver. Mine are set to small w/sub! Would like to see a photo of your set up, these are GREAT speakers!