GAWDs New HT Room Setup Questions

[GAWD]

Alright...upgraded pretty much everything I had. Here's what my last room looked like:

Blu-ray Forum - GAWD's Album: New HT - Picture
Blu-ray Forum - GAWD's Album: New HT - Picture

here's what my room now looks like
Blu-ray Forum - GAWD's Album: New HT - Picture
Blu-ray Forum - GAWD's Album: New HT - Picture

Sold everything and bought some new and used gear:

Blu-ray Forum - GAWD's Album: New HT - Picture

Now I've played around with my last system to acheive the best possible Stereo performance I could get but found it lacking and wasn't perfect for HT. Although the "center image" was fine there was no depth to the soundstage AND once you were sitting to the left of right of the sweet spot you would only hear the L or R channel.

Now for some questions:

Here is my previous toe in pics...the speakers were toed in about 30 degrees...was that way too much?

Blu-ray Forum - GAWD's Album: New HT - Picture

Here are what my speakers look from the side....should the be more forward to match my center channels position?

Blu-ray Forum - GAWD's Album: New HT - Picture


I've tried the room width * .277 and room with width * .450 measurements and I'd pretty much be holding the speakers on my lap with those measurements.

My room is 10 by 18. What would my ideal distance from side wall and rear wall be? I know it a matter of experimenting but where should I start?

Currently they are 11" from the side wall and 16 from the rear wall

I sit about 5 ft from my center channel.

Want this to be the best sounding HT I can get :-) with the help of the guru's on here

[kareface]

I might of missed it, but where are the dimensions of your room?

It's hard to tell from the picture, but are you placing the speakers on the wide end of the room? The shape of the room has the greatest effect on the sound stage. It's hard to explain so MSPaint to the rescue



If you're room isn't too large (I'll have to see when I get the size and shape info) you can place your speakers perfectly straight. Ideally you want the distance your front speakers are from each other to be about the same distance you are from them unless this puts them too close to the wall. Also, make sure the tweeter is at ear level when ever possible. I don't mean pointed at ear level, tho that is the next best option.

If you make sure those 3 things are addressed you'll likely see an improvement in imaging, celerity and volume. Make sure the speakers are placed on the correct side of the room. Make sure the tweeters are at ear level, and the 3rd has to wait till I see your room dimensions, but it's the positioning and angle of the fronts.

[GAWD]

It's the second good pic in your post. Rectangular room 10'w x 18'l

Tweeters are at ear level.

Right now speakers are about 8' feet apart I sit roughly 5' to 6' feet from them. I can push them back futher but then they won't be lined up with my center channel anymore. My center channel is exactly 5' from chair...so maybe 6ft from my ears.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by GAWD

It's the second good pic in your post. Rectangular room 10'w x 18'l

Tweeters are at ear level.

Right now speakers are about 8' feet apart I sit roughly 5' to 6' feet from them. I can push them back futher but then they won't be lined up with my center channel anymore. My center channel is exactly 5' from chair...so maybe 6ft from my ears.

For your room size your listening position would have to be different. Don't move the speakers back, try positioning them with no toe-in about 6' apart from each other. Keep the speakers as far apart from each other as they are from you. If that doesn't work you'll most likely need to change the listening position.

One last question, do you have a door or some other gap in the wall between you and the speakers when you're sitting on either side?

[GAWD]

No I don't have a door. The door is about 1 foot behind my listening position that's why I can't move my position. My side speakers are as far back as they can go while still being able to keep them at 90 degrees from my chairs.

So I shouldn't worry about the side wall and rear wall measurements? Just have them 6ft apart and 6ft away?

[kareface]

Originally Posted by GAWD

No I don't have a door. The door is about 1 foot behind my listening position that's why I can't move my position. My side speakers are as far back as they can go while still being able to keep them at 90 degrees from my chairs.

So I shouldn't worry about the side wall and rear wall measurements? Just have them 6ft apart and 6ft away?

Ug, I don't have time to go into a huge amount of detail.

Positioning them ideally from the wall will help address problems like standing waves and nulls, and you likely have them too close to the walls now and what you're hearing are early reflections from behind the speakers which will hurt the imaging. Moving the speakers apart changes the primary listing position, it moves it back relative to the distance the speakers are separated. Toe-in is an artificial fix for poor placement or listening position. You should always find the ideal position first, then apply toe-in to correct for the axis of the speakers. If you can move them further away from the back wall and closer together you'll move the listening position closer (more relative to what you have currently) and reduce the early reflections from the back wall. Try and form an equilateral triangle with your speakers and your listening position. I see you have some dampening on the rear walls, which is good. Dampening behind the fronts is the same has having the speaker further away from the wall (as well as lowering the reverberation time in the room). The other reason moving them closer will help is you have the distance between the back wall and the side wall too similar. Ideally you want to keep this distance as close to 2:1 in either direction to avoid really nasty nodes. Anyways, I have to leave for the office now, I'll check in again when I'm done.

[GAWD]

Been playing all night with them. Started seeing the differences immediately. I had them too close to me. Always heard L R never a perfect blend. Toeing in didn't help. Finally started moving the speakers back a little at a time and voila...started to get cleaner more focused. Still need to toe them in.

Reading your post now it may be that they are spread too far apart. I measured them at roughly 7ft.

Going to remove the toe in and start bringing them in an inch at a time. I'm not stopping til the speakers disappear and only the music is left. Thanks for the tips.

They sound good now...actually they sound great but you comment "Toe-in is an artificial fix for poor placement or listening position." is bothering me so maybe they aren't yet positioned properly. Going to mark their position at least if I don't get better I can always go back to where I am now which is pretty freaking good

[kareface]

Originally Posted by GAWD

Been playing all night with them. Started seeing the differences immediately. I had them too close to me. Always heard L R never a perfect blend. Toeing in didn't help. Finally started moving the speakers back a little at a time and voila...started to get cleaner more focused. Still need to toe them in.

Reading your post now it may be that they are spread too far apart. I measured them at roughly 7ft.

Going to remove the toe in and start bringing them in an inch at a time. I'm not stopping til the speakers disappear and only the music is left. Thanks for the tips.

They sound good now...actually they sound great but you comment "Toe-in is an artificial fix for poor placement or listening position." is bothering me so maybe they aren't yet positioned properly. Going to mark their position at least if I don't get better I can always go back to where I am now which is pretty freaking good

Don't take that the wrong way. Toe-in is needed on speakers that don't have symmetrical dispersion patterns and even specific drivers prefer to be more direct. Part of tonality is the combination of reflections, the speaker dispersion, room layout, listening position and toe-in all have slight effects on the tonal qualities of the sound. What I mean when I say "Toe-in is an artificial fix for poor placement or listening position" is most people have their speakers placed poorly and turn them a little in place of finding the sweet spot. You said "moving the speakers back", this is what I mean when I said your listening position is too close. Moving the speakers back will help correct this, moving them closer together will as well, both have trade offs. Closer to the wall creates rear reflections (in some cases hurting imaging), further from the side walls can hurt the sound stage. Ideally you'd want to move your listening position back instead of the speakers but the overall benefit of doing either will likely outweigh the possible negatives. I'm glad you found a sweet spot, don't stress about toe-in, I didn't mean that it's never useful.

[GAWD]

Well when I get home from work I'm going to mark where the speakers are now since it's very impressive as is.

got my laser pointer out which will allow me the 30 degree angles to get the eq triangle. Trying that out with no toe in and see what it sounds like.

Right now I've got a soundstage that fills up my entire wall and is about 4 ft deep.

If I can better that I will.

Hopefully I'll have the distance required behind me to get the rear speakers setup at the same distances.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by GAWD

Well when I get home from work I'm going to mark where the speakers are now since it's very impressive as is.

got my laser pointer out which will allow me the 30 degree angles to get the eq triangle. Trying that out with no toe in and see what it sounds like.

Right now I've got a soundstage that fills up my entire wall and is about 4 ft deep.

If I can better that I will.

Hopefully I'll have the distance required behind me to get the rear speakers setup at the same distances.

The triangle is a great starting point. It's not for every speaker, but I always advise using it as a starting point and adjusting from there. Just make sure you aren't so close to the speakers that all you're getting is the the near field. You are looking for a balance, moving them together increases the center focus and moving them apart widens the sound stage. Moving them closer to the side wall can increase bass and moving it away can change the quality of the mids. At the end of the day, a great deal of it will be subjective as well. If you like heavier bass or a specific tonal quality you might prefer a position that doesn't yield ideal reproduction. Horses for courses after all.

[GAWD]

Perfection is a thing of beauty!!! Started with the 30 degree triangle and it sounded great. Pulled the speakers as far apart as I could until the center got blurred then pushed them back in. Once I got my soundstage as wide as possible I moved the speakers back and forth to get the best possible response out of them "to my ears" anyway. Once I thought I had the best possible sound invited my wife down and she was blown away.Comments like "it's like watching a live show" and "I could reach out and touch the singer" cemented the fact that I got the positioning right for my room

[kareface]

That's awesome. I'm happy to see more people take the time to find the ideal positioning for their speakers. People don't realize how influential it really is.