Set Up Dilemma...

[jswanson]

Ok, so I'm kinda new around here... but not so new to the HD world. I've got a weird living room layout. Two windows, one fireplace, one closet and two open doorways... I currently have my HDTV and components set up in the corner of the room and have my surrounds on the sides, with my sub in the back corner of the room. After viewing so many set ups on this site I'm really starting to wonder if I'm getting 100% out of my system.

At this point I'm considering changing everything around to try and optimized the set up. I've got pictures in my Gallery of what I have and there is an area of the room that I could possibly put the TV to get it out of the corner. I'll post a picture of the areas.

Current location:


Possible location:


Basically put everything against the back wall, under the window and flip everything (furniture) around. I know it will definitely open up the sound field abit...if not alot!

Ideas...?

[Fors*]

Much better idea, but from the looks of it, it appears that if you flip where the TV is now with the couch's location, that the couch's new location cannot be centered to the TV because of the doorway there. Would this be the case?

[centauro74]

I'll also suggest to put the tv where the couch is and then the couch right in front of it, just closer to the tv, so you can walk around the couch, plus you can set up the sorround speakers better, I would do it like that, if you don't like it, you can put it back.

[Steve]

I think it would be a better setup as well. It might help to put some kind of complete black-out blind/drapes in that window if you put your TV in front of it though. You could also raise your surrounds up a couple of feet and wall-mount to get those stands out of the way.

[jswanson]

Ok... I've been up all night redoing the living room set up. I just need to run and hide the wiring for the surrounds and tidy up a bit... which I'll do later, need to sleep...then work.

I also replaced the stand with a new stand that I had purchased for the bedroom. I'm pretty happy, but still need to tweak a few things and recalibrate everything. I also ordered some more Polk Audio RTi's A1s to replace the JBLs that I'm using now for surrounds. Hopefully they'll been in within the next few days.

A few pics...including a screen shot.

[kareface]

The windows don't look like much of a threat. I can't see your fireplace in those pictures. Your problem is the doorways. They'll suck all the bass out of the room. If you have a choice in the matter, you always want to keep your speakers on the skinny end of a long room and try to make sure there aren't any door ways or stair wells between your front speakers and you. Either of those problems will hurt the quality of the sound the most. Doorways can be taken care of with a nice solid door. You'll see a huge improvement in a room with the doors shut vs. a room w/o. Being able to properly pressurize a room increases the low extension quite dramatically and in general it will sound better.

Edit: You posted the damn fireplace right before I sent my reply. Granted I wasn't speed typing, oh the phone at the moment. I think the fireplace can be a problem, but nothing compared to the open doorways. I think with proper EQ you could correct for most of the major effects of the fireplace.

[jswanson]

Originally Posted by sentinel41

The windows don't look like much of a threat. I can't see your fireplace in those pictures. Your problem is the doorways. They'll suck all the bass out of the room. If you have a choice in the matter, you always want to keep your speakers on the skinny end of a long room and try to make sure there aren't any door ways or stair wells between your front speakers and you. Either of those problems will hurt the quality of the sound the most. Doorways can be taken care of with a nice solid door. You'll see a huge improvement in a room with the doors shut vs. a room w/o. Being able to properly pressurize a room increases the low extension quite dramatically and in general it will sound better.

Edit: You posted the damn fireplace right before I sent my reply. Granted I wasn't speed typing, oh the phone at the moment. I think the fireplace can be a problem, but nothing compared to the open doorways. I think with proper EQ you could correct for most of the major effects of the fireplace.

I'm going through photos and adding some now...sorry about that.

I'm going to add doors to the open doorways... Can't do a solid door, but plan on putting up nice bi-folds up... I know, solid doors would be best...just can't do it at this time. My house was built in 1924, nothing in the house is level... or square for that matter. So it would be a major undertaking and I just don't have the time for it right now.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by jswanson

I'm going through photos and adding some now...sorry about that.

I'm going to add doors to the open doorways... Can't do a solid door, but plan on putting up nice bi-folds up... I know, solid doors would be best...just can't do it at this time. My house was built in 1924, nothing in the house is level... or square for that matter. So it would be a major undertaking and I just don't have the time for it right now.

If that's the case then ideally just pick a side that the doors don't sit between your fronts and you if possible. On top of being on the narrow end of the room (as seen below). This gif is coming in handy, seem to be a lot of positioning threads recently.



For more detail on positing your fronts I'll refer you to this post:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/1...ml#post2837525

Too lazy to retype it all up. Oh, and corners aren't ideal for sound.

[jswanson]

Originally Posted by sentinel41

If that's the case then ideally just pick a side that the doors don't sit between your fronts and you if possible. On top of being on the narrow end of the room (as seen below). This gif is coming in handy, seem to be a lot of positioning threads recently.



For more detail on positing your fronts I'll refer you to this post:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/1...ml#post2837525

Too lazy to retype it all up. Oh, and corners aren't ideal for sound.

Thanks!

I currently have the sub in the corner, behind the couch.... Do you think it would be better up front with the front speakers....? Basically beside the Left front, far away from doorways?

[Beta Man]

for your setup, the sub in a front corner may work best........

I like the "new" arrangement..... just pull the curtains behind the T.V. closed......

Looking good though.

Also.... do you use the fireplace? and is it gas/wood burning?

[Steve]

The new setup looks good. IMO a big improvement over the previous corner arrangement. The recommendation I'll make is to pull the mains forward so they're beside the TV. It looks like they're a good ways back from it right now.

[Hoser59]

Nice job on rearranging things! As someone who has a corner setup without any options for changing it I can attest to the fact that it's not ideal, but you gotta work with what you're given and you've definitely optomized your room.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by jswanson

Thanks!

I currently have the sub in the corner, behind the couch.... Do you think it would be better up front with the front speakers....? Basically beside the Left front, far away from doorways?

For the subwoofer you should position the sub about where your head would be while listening. Move around the room with your head at the height the sub should be positioned and mark the positions that sound the best. Then move the sub to each of the marked position at test out the sound at the listening position. In general you want to keep the sub at least 6" from a wall behind the sub and 1-2 feet from any walls to the side of the sub. This is a general reference tho, each sub and room can will be a little different.

[STARSCREAM]

Looks much better, great job!

[jswanson]

Just an update... Everything is in place. I just need to hide some of the wires and a few other little things, but for the most part... It's done. :-)

I also ordered and received some new Polk Audio RTi A1 series speakers for my surrounds, replacing the old JBLs. :-)

Pics:

Originally Posted by Beta Man

for your setup, the sub in a front corner may work best........

I like the "new" arrangement..... just pull the curtains behind the T.V. closed......

Looking good though.

Also.... do you use the fireplace? and is it gas/wood burning?

Turns out that the front is the ideal spot for the sub... After moving the sub all over the room that is where it needs to be.

Yes, that fireplace is pretty much my main source of heat. I blocked off the chimney and put ventless gas logs in the fireplace. I use propane. At the time... 9 years ago, propane was pretty cheap... that's not the case any longer.

[PlacervilleGuy]

Nice! Now you just need a bigger TV!
How are you liking that HSU sub? Do you find it tight and tuneful?

[Sammy]

I have a square room that is completely open to the entry and dining room at the rear only and it sounds awesome. What do you mean no openings and no good options with a square room?

[kareface]

Originally Posted by Sammy

I have a square room that is completely open to the entry and dining room at the rear only and it sounds awesome. What do you mean no openings and no good options with a square room?

Square rooms produce bad acoustics, the same is true if your ceiling height matches your length or width. It has to do with the way the sound waves reflect off of the walls. Having walls the same distance apart increases the energy of the room nodes. The length between each wall has a specific wave length that matches that distance (including waves that are fractions of that wave length). Having 2 walls of the same length creates 2 nodes with identical eigentones. It creates greater dips and spikes then other room layouts. A square room is considered to be one of the worst layouts for acoustics. Experts agree that acoustics accounts for over 50% of what you hear, so this matters a lot.

Rooms that have doors or stairways, or anything that leads to a large open area that is unsealed will reflect those attributes. This can be for 3 reasons. 1 is if the abnormality is near one of the first reflection points it'll change the nature of the sound. Which ever speaker it's near will sound quieter and if you calibrate your receiver is likely going to work harder and over compensate with higher db direct waves, which isn't the same as direct + side reflections. The reflections account for some of the tonality of the speakers, so your mids and highs will change because of this.

The second issue is low frequency energy. The higher the frequency the higher the energy of the wave, the smaller the membrane required for wave propagation and the more direct the sound becomes. Low frequency waves by comparison are lower energy, require a larger membrane for propagation and are very indirect. The energy that is used to produce low frequency waves is spread out much easier then mids or highs. For this reason if you have a doorway between you and a source of LFE, like a subwoofer or even speakers that play at lower hrz, then a lot of the energy is being sucked out by the opening in the walls. You'll create a dip in the LF response. Here is a perfect example of it (leaving the door open created a dip in the LF):
http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwo...-1-review.html

The third problem is room pressurization. Once you go below the resonance point pressurization is key for LF reproduction. The better sealed your room is the easier it is to pressurize. This allows box style subs to play at much lower frequencies then they would otherwise. Let's take for example an open space, each time you drop an octave, to maintain the same SPL you have to increase the displacement of the sub by a factor of 4. However, if you move that subwoofer into a perfectly sealed room and produce frequencies under the fundamental room resonance you change the pressure of the room. Once you get below resonance the pressure becomes proportional to driver displacement. You end up with a more constant SPL at lower frequencies which tappers the roll off. The better sealed the room is the better the ratio of pressurization to displacement becomes. This only affects box style subs, it's more effective for sealed subs and dipole subs cancel the effect out (because their second driver corrects the displacement created by the first).

I tried to simplify it a little, but if you want a detailed response with some mathematical examples for nodes and pressurization I'm more then willing to provide them. I would like to note, the first problem (square room) will have the most overall negative effect on the room. The second problem (reflection point) will have the most directly noticeable effect on the room because of the uneven sound from the speakers. The last one you won't notice unless you've had your setup in a sealed room before. It'll still hurt the potential output, but it you wouldn't notice not having it because that region rolls off anyways.

[Sammy]

I understand as I know physics but I'm not going to remodel my house and it sounds good enough for me.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by Sammy

I understand as I know physics but I'm not going to remodel my house and it sounds good enough for me.

No one was asking you to. I was simply answering your question.