Audio over Optical vs. HDMI

[Shinrai]

I need some advice here with a (regular) customer that I have in my store.

I actually named this thread in a way that I hope he finds this through a google search.

My dilemma is that for some unknown, disillusioned reason he feels that there is a difference when the same audio track is passed along an Optical cable vs. HDMI. No I am not referring to a lossy track vs. lossless. He has specifically said the DTS or Dolby Digital track. Many times he has made it clear that he prefers the sound over an Optical cable... ??

In actuality, I recall him saying that the regular DTS track passed along an optical cable sounded warmer and less clinical than the DTS-HD track via a HDMI cable. So to clarify, the lossy track taken from the same mix sounds better than the lossless track?? The reason I state that it is from the same mix is as we know due to the nature of DTS-HD using the DTS core and the HD part simply being the difference of what was removed during the lossy encode.

I mean this guy sits there with his Blu-ray Player, having an optical cable and HDMI cable connected to his AVR and switches between the two and analyzes the difference. What's worse is he honestly thinks there is a difference... Hello! It is digital! If anything, HDMI can only be better due to the increased bandwidth. This is just like saying I prefer the way my photo looks after transferring it with a USB 1.0 cable as opposed to a USB 2.0 cable... The colors look so much richer!

He even called me today looking for a specific Blu-ray Player and wanted to know if it could simultaneously output audio over HDMI and Optical. He has also revealed to me that is what he likes most about his current player.

I guess the reason for this post is...

1) So others can post here supporting my frustration and hopefully he will find this thread.

2) Advice! Should I just set him straight? I mean, I have tried but he has such a strong opinionated personality that is hard to deal with. I recall various other long winded discussions about other things Blu-ray/audio related in which I was completely right and it took forever for him to even have a look in to my point of view. I need to tread carefully here though as he is still a customer and as such I need to maintain a professional, friendly nature. Believe me, if it was away from work I wouldn't hold back at all with the facts.

[Rob J in WNY]

Your points are well-taken, but some people will simply perceive audio differently. Just suggest a BD player model which does what he asks and sell it to him. You'll make him a happy customer, and he'll respect you for respecting his opinion, and you might get the even more rare repeat-customer.

Of course, I prefer lossless audio, which, on my setup, I pass over HDMI and decode in my receiver. Before I got a receiver which could decode lossless, I passed lossy audio via optical. I can say that the volume differences were there - usually the lossy optical volume was "louder." Now, we all know that a slight adjustment of the volume is all that is necessary to control this, but other factors come into play.

For instance, on receivers with various forms of loudness compensation (where some form of progressive equalization is applied to steadily lowering volumes in an attempt to maintain the listener's perception of the sound), a louder track will sound more robust at lower physical volume settings. This is because enhanced loudness compensation may occur as the volume level is lowered.

This is just one possible scenario which may be inciting your customer's favor of audio over optical.

Just let your customer be himself. If he really prefers audio over optical, let him be right and graciously sell him the player which does what he's hoping for. I'd say avoid debating with him unless he asks you to "prove" your point in a non-combative way. "The customer is always right." Well, the customer is not always right, but after all, he is the customer. Happily provide him the service he wants and you'll both win.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Shinrai

I need some advice here with a (regular) customer that I have in my store.

I actually named this thread in a way that I hope he finds this through a google search.

My dilemma is that for some unknown, disillusioned reason he feels that there is a difference when the same audio track is passed along an Optical cable vs. HDMI. No I am not referring to a lossy track vs. lossless. He has specifically said the DTS or Dolby Digital track. Many times he has made it clear that he prefers the sound over an Optical cable... ??

It's possible it really is a lossy vs. lossless thing...lossy is less distinct, interpreted by some as "warmer", matching the old-school analog sound over fuzzy speakers from back in the day. I've heard people describe sound with full range on the high and low end as "too bright" - it's just more data than they care to assimilate.

This is why the Bose Wave Radio, playing easy listening and "smooth jazz" (don't get me started) are quite popular.

Not knowing what receiver or speakers he's listening to, or whether he has some custom settings on his unit, it's still just not possible to figure out why he has this interpretation. The real test would be for him to get some really good source material, preferably music, and test this out.

I would suggest the Police "Certifiable" concert, or John Mayer's "Where The Light Is", both in Blu. That should help him figure it out.

[Shinrai]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

It's possible it really is a lossy vs. lossless thing...lossy is less distinct, interpreted by some as "warmer", matching the old-school analog sound over fuzzy speakers from back in the day.

We have been very specific about this. He has definitely selected a lossy track when doing the Optical vs. HDMI comparison. This is the part that confuses me the most. Then one day he mentioned that he even preferred the lossy sound over optical compared to lossless over HDMI.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Not knowing what receiver or speakers he's listening to, or whether he has some custom settings on his unit, it's still just not possible to figure out why he has this interpretation.

This is a good point. Maybe, the receiver has some different settings applied for each input.

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Just let your customer be himself. If he really prefers audio over optical, let him be right and graciously sell him the player which does what he's hoping for. I'd say avoid debating with him unless he asks you to "prove" your point in a non-combative way. "The customer is always right." Well, the customer is not always right, but after all, he is the customer. Happily provide him the service he wants and you'll both win.

You are completely right. This is why I have found it so difficult to converse with this person. As he seems to have strong opinions on various things audio related and I have to tread carefully around them not wanting to offend his opinion. He comes across as knowing all the facts, not willing to be open to other ideas. This is a shame as even genuine experts are humble enough to welcome other ideas. I have a huge passion for audio and have dedicated myself to insane amounts of research. I just feel it is a shame that I can't pass on more to this person without offending him.