If you buy a Blu ray player in 2011 you better have an HDMI capable TV

[Canada]

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/no..._from_blu-ray/

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Thats nice to know. I'm pretty sure most people will have an HDMI compatible HDTV by 2011. If not, they better get with the program.

[bhampton]

Hi,

Two points...

1) You can buy a little HDMI to RGB/YPbPr converter box for under $200 and they just completely work. Google HDFury for examples.

2) Most people don't have video stuff old enough to not have HDMI at this point.

There are hold outs for analog audio output because people have older high priced stuff that's too good to replace with a modern HDMI Audio capable AVR. I think those people should move that AudioFool gear off into the room with the LP player and just get with the audio side of HDMI as well but that's just me.

Old stuff can be good stuff but the new stuff is great too.

=Brian

[dobyblue]

Even the 2013 spec doesn't prohibit analog AUDIO outputs...so no reason why those users won't still be able to use their existing AV for audio processing and run HDMI directly to their TV.

[blacklion]

I see Hollydoom has been puffing a lot more of that weed which induces in them the delusion that there is a technical fix to stop piracy and who cares if paying consumers are inconvenienced and denied use of legacy equipment that is perfect working order.

As if any of these demented DRM projects has or will ever stop our friends in Shanghai or bored college kids from simply ripping the discs.

They'll be puffing that weed as they steadily and surely go bankrupt.

[Bishop_99]

Well, my main tv only has component inputs and quite frankly I'm not upgrading that tv until it dies.

Besides, anyone who wants to copy a Blu-ray movie will simply use a program to make an exact 1080p duplicate of the Blu-ray disc or simply rip it into the computer, instead of recording a 1080i version in real time. pretty silly if you ask me but if worse comes to worse, I'll just buy the HDFury.

[vettemn86]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Hi,

2) Most people don't have video stuff old enough to not have HDMI at this point.

There are hold outs for analog audio output because people have older high priced stuff that's too good to replace with a modern HDMI Audio capable AVR. I think those people should move that AudioFool gear off into the room with the LP player and just get with the audio side of HDMI as well but that's just me.

Old stuff can be good stuff but the new stuff is great too.

=Brian

I currently do. My calibrated Mitsubishi CRT puts out an unbelievable picture and I dont plan on switching till it dies. My BD is currently hooked up with component (no HDMI) and I would put that picture against anything out there right now. As far as specs changing, I hope they dont think they are going to attempt to gimp current players.

[kdo]

interesting... is there any particular reason this is being done, other than to perhaps attempt combating piracy, as member 'blacklion' states above?

[kdo]

Nope, it's only because of piracy...I just re-read the article, and thus answered my own question...unbelievable. I agree, as soon as you change the technology, the pirates just seem to change with it...

[FinalEvangelion]

Is this the Image Constraint Token?

I remember this being talked about when HD DVD / Blu-ray was being launched. I also remember when the DVD forum was about to implement HD DVD region codes... and that could never come to play, lol.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by kdo

interesting... is there any particular reason this is being done, other than to perhaps attempt combating piracy, as member 'blacklion' states above?

pretty much pirating, but it also simplifies everything only having one type of connector. A manufacturer will put 4 HDMI (for example) and you have 4 A/V+ inputs, while if you wanted to have 4 of any combination you would need 4 composite, 4 s-video, 4 component, 4DVI, 4 HDMI we are already at 20 and that just covers some of the more basic video (i.e. there can also be VGA,Scart ,the endings on analogue could be BNC or RCA....). For audio there is RCA/BNC (analogue), optical, coax.

For those that don't know what BNC and RCA mean, the cables and data that passes over them is the same, but the BNC connector is used on higher grade/pro equipment because the connectors work much better then standard RCA because they "screw in" and are "held in place" so you always have a good connection, unlike RCA where some data can be lost because of a loose connection (especially over time). So any place you see such as analogue audio, component composite, you could have on the cable side which connects to

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by FinalEvangelion

Is this the Image Constraint Token?

I remember this being talked about when HD DVD / Blu-ray was being launched. I also remember when the DVD forum was about to implement HD DVD region codes... and that could never come to play, lol.

no(and the title of the thread is a bit misleading), ICT, is different.

ICT is the ability of a content provider to demand from a BD player that it only allows full resolution from a BD player if it is HDMI (I think encrypted digital, but there is no other one out there so it is HDMI by default). This can be used today, even though there is a general agreement not to use it before 2011, on the other hand it has already been used (by mistake supposedly) on an HD-DVD title. So your BD player already has this. Every AACS compliant player has this but it depends on the disk and the disk only

There are also two "sunset" clauses in AACS, and the first of these is the one discussed. here are both

Originally Posted by AACS licensing agreement

2.2.2.1 Analog Sunset – 2010. With the exception of Existing Models, any Licensed Player manufactured after December 31, 2010 shall limit analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to SD Interlace Modes only. Existing Models may be manufactured and sold by Adopter up until December 31, 2011. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Adopter may continue to manufacture and sell an Existing Model in which the implementation of AACS Technology is a Robust Inactive Product after December 31, 2010 provided that when such Robust Inactive Product is activated through a Periodic Update, such Periodic Update results in a Licensed Player that limits analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to SD Interlace Modes only.
...
2.2.2.2 Analog Sunset – 2013. No Licensed Player that passes Decrypted AACS Content to analog video outputs may be manufactured or sold by Adopter after December 31, 2013."

so to put it simply

2011 any new model must reduce the resolution if it is not HDMI (but existing models could continue to be produced with full resolution over any other input

2012 All new players sold must reduce the resolution if it is not over HDMI

2014 No more analogue for new players so in essence you better make sure your TV has HDMI

and just to add the last bit of the puzzle (since it is a bit on topic)

there is also DOT (digital only token) but it's use is more restrictive, but if used on a title then your analogue outputs will be useless on it


here is the AACS licensing agreement http://www.aacsla.com/license/AACS_A...rmt_090605.pdf

[blacklion]

Yeah right! Like HDMI connectors are not notoriously loose and constantly slipping out of ports. Even worse with HDMI switches; try running 2-3 HDMI cables into most HDMI switches and see if you will not endure constant shifting of the switch due to the weight and rigidity of the HDMi cables.

HDMI is primarily about HDCP/DRM and not user convenience. End of story. Some techies even claim that bundling audio and video cables in a twisted strand as HDMI does creates undesirable interferences.

It offers absolutely nothing that component cable and optical/coax cannot offer - if you don't mind a rat's nest behind your equipment

[kdo]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

pretty much pirating, but it also simplifies everything only having one type of connector.

I guess that makes sense...thanks!

[john_1958]

Originally Posted by blacklion

Yeah right! Like HDMI connectors are not notoriously loose and constantly slipping out of ports. Even worse with HDMI switches; try running 2-3 HDMI cables into most HDMI switches and see if you will not endure constant shifting of the switch due to the weight and rigidity of the HDMi cables.

HDMI is primarily about HDCP/DRM and not user convenience. End of story. Some techies even claim that bundling audio and video cables in a twisted strand as HDMI does creates undesirable interferences.

It offers absolutely nothing that component cable and optical/coax cannot offer - if you don't mind a rat's nest behind your equipment

well who wants clutter of cables like components any way?
what about hdmi 1.4 recievers http://www.digitalhome.ca/2010/05/integra-now-shipping-3d-ready-receivers/

[HD Man]

I knew this was coming at some point as I have a professionally calibrated 65" Sony XBR set in the basement that doesn't have HDMI, just component. The blu-ray offers an exxcelent picture and I have no plans on replacing the set until it dies!!

Will probably pick up my a 3rd player that I can use as a back-up if necessary before, the new restrictions kick in. I will also be closely watching what's contained in firmware updates in case they try and slip a patch into one of the updates.

[blacklion]

Originally Posted by john_1958

well who wants clutter of cables like components any way?
what about hdmi 1.4 recievers http://www.digitalhome.ca/2010/05/in...ady-receivers/

Well, like I said "...if you don't mind a rat's nest behind your equipment...". I for one can live with the clutter of component cable behind my rack in return for the immense benefit of freedom from HDCP handshake problems

I watch mostly DVDs and I'm not interested in the current iteration of 3D - so don't need HDMI 1.4. Besides I just got a new receiver last year and not planning to upgrade for at least another 4-5 years - or whenever it packs up (which may be sooner than that) given the poor build quality and planned obsolescence of modern consumer electronics

[vettemn86]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no

so to put it simply

2011 any new model must reduce the resolution if it is not HDMI (but existing models could continue to be produced with full resolution over any other input

2012 All new players sold must reduce the resolution if it is not over HDMI

2014 No more analogue for new players so in essence you better make sure your TV has HDMI

and just to add the last bit of the puzzle (since it is a bit on topic)

there is also DOT (digital only token) but it's use is more restrictive, but if used on a title then your analogue outputs will be useless on it


here is the AACS licensing agreement http://www.aacsla.com/license/AACS_A...rmt_090605.pdf

So come 2011, people with CRT tvs with perfectly good component connections will not be able to enjoy Bluray at full resolution if they buy a new player.
1. How is this supposed to help sales for Bluray products??
2. And would this and the Image Constraint Token make it through a court challenge if it came down to it??
3. Wouldnt this push more people TO piracy that currently doesnt have any of these restrictions?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by vettemn86

So come 2011, people with CRT tvs with perfectly good component connections will not be able to enjoy Bluray at full resolution if they buy a new player.

1) component is capped at 1080i so it can't do 1080p video so no matter what TV you have if you use component then you can't enjoy Bluray at full resolution
2) if you don't use HDMI for audio then if you use optical then you can't get the full audio capabilities of BD either
3) A CRT TV is not a progressive device, so no matter what, even if someone made a CRT TV with HDMI it won't show 1080 by 1920 pixels at the same time. So n0o matter how good of a display it could not show BD in all it's glory. Don't mistaken WS for HD

1. How is this supposed to help sales for Bluray products??

this is not about BD. As you can see these rules are from AACS. The BDA has no say, and if HD DVD was still around the same rules would apply to ist since it also used AACS. That being said just because something does not use AACS it is not immune. AACS has a board that is a who's who of Studios, CEs and IT. These are the rules for AACS and so for BD but there are similar stuff in everything else. Just a few days ago the FCC ruled that cable/sat companies can use SOC (selective output control) http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/...me-theater.ars which means that if you go and watch a program with SOC on that you won't be able to see anything if you use component

2. And would this and the Image Constraint Token make it through a court challenge if it came down to it??

Well since the FCC agreed to SOC on TV it is a bit odd that someone would be dumb enough to think that a court challange has any chances. What next bring Ferrari to court because they don't only charge 20k for the car?

3. Wouldnt this push more people TO piracy that currently doesnt have any of these restrictions?

Honest people don't pirate, and people that don't have moral issues with stealing content and can make excuses for why it is OK will pirate anyways (since let's face it, free is the only convincing argument that is needed).

On the other hand why do you think pirating will be a solution. Yes you can still get a computer with RGB out, but for how long?

[blacklion]

No flat panel display can even begin to approach the picture quality offered by CRT. Truth be told, all said and done, the edge flat panels have over CRT is primarily aesthetic - form factor and ergonomics. WAF especially was THE key driver of flat panel display's success.

Viewing 1080i is virtually indistinguishable from 1080p for most ordinary, sensible people using component cable from a BD player to non-calibrated CRT display in typical home viewing conditions. Never mind a properly calibrated CRT. And yes, 1080i is HD.

Don't be fooled by the FUD being disseminated by PR shills for Hollywood and CE manufacturer. These are the idiots with a business model designed to punish the honest customer who buys legit discs with DRM and by crippling bought and paid for CE equipment. The dishonest people who buy bootleg discs don't suffer any of these problems because there is no DRM on their discs.

The notorious truth is that the primary source of pirated discs is dishonest Hollywood studio employees who steal pre-release master copies meant to be circulated to movie critics and ship them to China. This is why new movies are available for download on torrent sites weeks or months before theatrical release. But the studio moguls are too lazy, dumb and greedy to look inhouse; they just prefer to take the easy way out. Punish the honest consumer with DRM and disabling analogue outputs. This fundamental stupidity of Hollywood is why they are doomed to collapse within this decade.