bitstream vs lpcm

[d.white]

I have a 250 gb ps3 slim with a yammy 663, excuse me if this has been asked before but which settings is best bitstream or linear pcm when you choose bitstream it tells you that some audio may be lost, besides seeing the cool little light on your reciever, which will give me the best audio experience, or does it make a difference.

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by d.white

I have a 250 gb ps3 slim with a yammy 663, excuse me if this has been asked before but which settings is best bitstream or linear pcm when you choose bitstream it tells you that some audio may be lost, besides seeing the cool little light on your reciever, which will give me the best audio experience, or does it make a difference.

with your set up, pay no mind to that message. you wont miss a thing. both ways is the same.

[d.white]

thanks 4 the info, by the way do you know the difference between the two

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by d.white

thanks 4 the info, by the way do you know the difference between the two

the only difference (though some will say there is a difference with audio quality, but most cant tell) is that lpcm makes the ps3 decode the audio and send it as pcm, bitstream will make your receiver decode.

[d.white]

thanks again 94538

[joker552]

I prefer bitstream because that way, the receiver is actually doing something, hence, see its TRUE power. In other words, the source would not have to do BOTH (Video & Audio).

[dereksworl]

I gotta question. I have my PS3 set to use PCM. on blus that gives you both audio options in the disc menu like the 5th Element. it has audio options for Dolby True HD or LPCM(uncompressed), which is better? does it even matter? wont it just convert the Dolby True into PCM anyway? why have both options in the disc menu?

[slaizer2000]

uncompressed audio or video is always better. Since you don't change the original file. During compression you often alter the file in some manner which cannot be recovered.

with that being said the high def compression formats used with true hd and dts-ma are so good that most people won't be able to tell the difference. That is why they are marketed as lossless compression formats. Even though technically they are not.

People with very good ears though will be able to pick out the differences. Most people won't.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

uncompressed audio or video is always better. Since you don't change the original file. During compression you often alter the file in some manner which cannot be recovered.

with that being said the high def compression formats used with true hd and dts-ma are so good that most people won't be able to tell the difference. That is why they are marketed as lossless compression formats. Even though technically they are not.

People with very good ears though will be able to pick out the differences. Most people won't.

I can't speak for DTS-MA (which many prefer), but I don't believe anyone can tell the difference between Dolby True-HD and the original source material. IMO, when there are Dolby True-HD tracks that don't sound great, it's because the source material doesn't sound good either.

The way to compare two sources is to combine their signals with one being out-of-phase. If the signals are EXACTLY the same, you'll hear silence. If you hear anything, what you're hearing is the difference between the two signals (and thus the flaw in the system).

I attended a demo where they did that and compared the original source to regular Dolby Digital. All we heard was an occassional "hsss" last about half a second, once every 10 seconds or so. What Dolby True-HD does is take that difference signal and combine it back into the stream, thus presenting back a signal that is theoretically exactly like the original, but still can be stored with far more efficiency then a completey uncompressed signal.

Maybe aliens could hear the difference, but I sincerely doubt that any human could.

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

uncompressed audio or video is always better. Since you don't change the original file. During compression you often alter the file in some manner which cannot be recovered.

with that being said the high def compression formats used with true hd and dts-ma are so good that most people won't be able to tell the difference. That is why they are marketed as lossless compression formats. Even though technically they are not.

People with very good ears though will be able to pick out the differences. Most people won't.

So in other words, if given a choice from blu-ray's disc menu between Dolby True/DTS Master or PCM(uncompressed), i should pick PCM(uncompressed)?

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by dereksworl

So in other words, if given a choice from blu-ray's disc menu between Dolby True/DTS Master or PCM(uncompressed), i should pick PCM(uncompressed)?

theoretically uncompressed will be better since it's the original file. But realistically most people can't tell the difference since the compression algorythms used with high def sound formats are so good you won't be able to tell the difference. Once decompressed and played back it can never have all the same, exact and identical info that was in the original uncompressed format. These difference however may be so miniscal that you won't be able to tell the difference.

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I can't speak for DTS-MA (which many prefer), but I don't believe anyone can tell the difference between Dolby True-HD and the original source material. IMO, when there are Dolby True-HD tracks that don't sound great, it's because the source material doesn't sound good either.

The way to compare two sources is to combine their signals with one being out-of-phase. If the signals are EXACTLY the same, you'll hear silence. If you hear anything, what you're hearing is the difference between the two signals (and thus the flaw in the system).

I attended a demo where they did that and compared the original source to regular Dolby Digital. All we heard was an occassional "hsss" last about half a second, once every 10 seconds or so. What Dolby True-HD does is take that difference signal and combine it back into the stream, thus presenting back a signal that is theoretically exactly like the original, but still can be stored with far more efficiency then a completey uncompressed signal.

Maybe aliens could hear the difference, but I sincerely doubt that any human could.

Alot of the audio compression technique become lossless as they tend to compress or alter sounds that are outside the average listeners frequency range. Because they do this most people won't hear the subtle difference. there are however those who have a wider range of hearing that will be able to notice some of these changes. Most of the people however will not be able to detect the subtle differences. And if those sounds are outside your perceivable audio range than not matter how many times you listen to the sound you will never know it's there or not.

I personally cannot tell the difference between uncompressed or the compressed formats as my hearing sucks.

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by dereksworl

So in other words, if given a choice from blu-ray's disc menu between Dolby True/DTS Master or PCM(uncompressed), i should pick PCM(uncompressed)?

If your receiver can decode TruHD or DTSHDMA and you have PCM avail as well choose whichever one sounds best to you. With most movies you will only have a choice of one of them anyway.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

Alot of the audio compression technique become lossless as they tend to compress or alter sounds that are outside the average listeners frequency range. Because they do this most people won't hear the subtle difference. there are however those who have a wider range of hearing that will be able to notice some of these changes. Most of the people however will not be able to detect the subtle differences. And if those sounds are outside your perceivable audio range than not matter how many times you listen to the sound you will never know it's there or not.

I personally cannot tell the difference between uncompressed or the compressed formats as my hearing sucks.

Error! Lossless compression means all of the stuff that was taken out during compression is restored during decompression. Lossless = nothing is lost.

With lossy compression, some of the material removed during compression is not restored during decompression. Lossy = some stuff is lost.

So, with lossless, there is no difference between the input source and the output at the end. With lossy, there is a difference, although the amount and whether/how it affects the sound quality of the output is the subject of considerable discussion.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

uncompressed audio or video is always better. Since you don't change the original file. During compression you often alter the file in some manner which cannot be recovered.

with that being said the high def compression formats used with true hd and dts-ma are so good that most people won't be able to tell the difference. That is why they are marketed as lossless compression formats. Even though technically they are not.

People with very good ears though will be able to pick out the differences. Most people won't.

Originally Posted by slaizer2000

Alot of the audio compression technique become lossless as they tend to compress or alter sounds that are outside the average listeners frequency range. Because they do this most people won't hear the subtle difference. there are however those who have a wider range of hearing that will be able to notice some of these changes. Most of the people however will not be able to detect the subtle differences. And if those sounds are outside your perceivable audio range than not matter how many times you listen to the sound you will never know it's there or not.

That's incorrect and misleading.

During lossless compression nothing is altered, changed, or lost. Once it gets decoded (or decompressed), the signal is bit for bit identical to the original uncompressed audio signal, ie. it's lossless. No one, not even one having the most acute hearing, would be able to distinguish any difference between the two.

During lossy compression some signal is lost during the process. Some people can hear a difference between lossy and lossless compression while others cannot.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by dereksworl

So in other words, if given a choice from blu-ray's disc menu between Dolby True/DTS Master or PCM(uncompressed), i should pick PCM(uncompressed)?

No.

There aren't that many blu-ray disks having all three in one menu. If you do find one, then you can pick whichever one you want. All three will sound identical.

[Big Daddy]

Theoretically, there is no difference in audio quality between setting the BD player to output audio in LPCM or bitstream. Practically, there are several reasons why setting the player to LPCM may be preferred.

1. Some receivers do not have enough processing power. If you set the player to bitstream, the receiver will have to decode the compressed audio and as a result the receiver will not have enough processing power left to do other things. Some receivers may turn the calibration program such as Audyssey off.
2. In the case of SACD, if the player is set to bitstream audio in SACD's native format (DSD), the receiver may not be able to use Bass Management.
3. Another downside to sending the HD audio codecs in bitstream is that on many players, you can only send the movie soundtrack itself. Any secondary content, like menu beeps or the audio that accompanies Picture-in-Picture interactive features is not part of the original bitstream and will not be transmitted. Audio commentaries and alternative-language audio may also be affected, depending on how the disc was authored. The only way to send the additional content is by allowing the disc player to perform the audio decoding itself, during which the player mixes the new material on top of the movie soundtrack for transmission in either PCM or analog format. In some cases, you may lose the lossless soundtrack. If you are watching a movie with the Bonus View features enabled, and you want to restore the high resolution audio, it may require you to stop the disc playback to go to the player’s setup menu, and that can be a big nuisance. For the Oppo BD83 player, if you turn the Secondary Audio to On in its menu, it will automatically set the audio to lossy DD or DTS.

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

That's incorrect and misleading.

During lossless compression nothing is altered, changed, or lost. Once it gets decoded (or decompressed), the signal is bit for bit identical to the original uncompressed audio signal, ie. it's lossless. No one, not even one having the most acute hearing, would be able to distinguish any difference between the two.

During lossy compression some signal is lost during the process. Some people can hear a difference between lossy and lossless compression while others cannot.

Even though these companies market these audio codec as lossless, its just a marketing tool. Since it is so close that most people can't tell they term it lossless.

Look at all those lossless compression algorityhms they use for images/video. Even though alot are stated to be lossless, they truly are not. If you zoom in really close on the images that have been compressed and then decompress using a lossless format you will see very slight variations when compared to the same image.

It's the same with audio. Some day there may be a true lossless compression algorythm out there for images and audio. But currently there is not. They are just sophisticated enough to affect the portions of the image and/or video that the human eye and ear have problems telling the difference between unless you look very close.

[slaizer2000]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Error! Lossless compression means all of the stuff that was taken out during compression is restored during decompression. Lossless = nothing is lost.

With lossy compression, some of the material removed during compression is not restored during decompression. Lossy = some stuff is lost.

So, with lossless, there is no difference between the input source and the output at the end. With lossy, there is a difference, although the amount and whether/how it affects the sound quality of the output is the subject of considerable discussion.

Lossy is inferior so people can tell the difference which is why they call it lossy.

Incorrect. There is no such thing as true lossless compression with audio or images. They market the term lossless because its so close to the original that it's almost the same and most people can't tell the difference.

[oppopioneer]

Most the reviews on bluray movies on this site, the testers seem to prefer if the bluray offers it in LPCM as the reviews say the Spider Man bluray disc in LPCM sounds better than the DTS/Dolby track. I wish all blurays were released in high def LPCM 48kHz/24-bit and 96 kHz/24 bit audio remaster.

Initially, Sony was including PCM on their newer releases but has since stopped doing that. Yes, I know that Dolby TrueHD is "theoretically" the same as lossless PCM. But in my experience with audio, theory and reality are not best friends. The Spidey PCM tracks are significantly better than most TrueHD tracks I have heard. The soundstage is strong and cohesive with instrumentation, voices and sound effects rendered gorgeously and with heart-stopping dynamics that can go from a whisper to a tremendous crescendo that rocks the floorboards and windows. The spotlighting on certain strings in the orchestral arrangements sounds solid and sweet in the midrange, especially in the more dramatic scenes where the music really is layed on thick. The surround channels and subwoofer are used to very dramatic effect.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Spide...y-Blu-ray/547/