BETAMAX vs. VHS parallel to Blu-ray vs. HD DVD

[ReduxInflux]

when i went back to what happened with VHS and BETAMAX in the early 80's, i found that Blu-Ray's technical superiority parallels BetaMax, but their success parallels VHS. It is the inverse for HD-DVD. Check it out:


"Sony introduced the Betamax home video system in 1975 with the LV-1901 Trinitron/Betamax console. It was the most popular video format in 1983, gaining almost a third of the UK video recorder market, while Sanyo's VTC5000 was the top selling UK video recorder. By 1985, however, the market had turned sharply towards VHS...

The VHS format's defeat of the Betamax format became a classic marketing case study. Sony's ability to dictate an industry standard backfired when JVC, and parent Matsushita, made the tactical decision to forego Sony's offer of Betamax in favor of JVC's VHS technology. They felt that it would end up like U-Matic deal: Sony dominating, and they get the scraps. By 1984, forty companies utilized the VHS format in comparison with Beta's twelve. Sony finally conceded defeat in 1988 when it too began producing VHS recorders. However, Sony may be said to have had some small consolation in this saga as its Video-8 small-format videotape is essentially a scaled-down version of the Betamax, and Video-8 dominated the home camcorder format for the next 15 years with the rival VHS-C format, until both formats were rendered obsolete by the digital MiniDV standard."


But I was just an infant during all of this, so my knowledge only drinks from the fountain of the textbook. For those of you who have a more intimate understanding of this and how it parallels (or doesn't) our current Blu-Ray/HD-DVD situation, I would love to hear your thoughts...

[richteer]

Originally Posted by ReduxInflux

But I was just an infant during all of this, so my knowledge only drinks from the fountain of the textbook. For those of you who have a more intimate understanding of this and how it parallels (or doesn't) our current Blu-Ray/HD-DVD situation, I would love to hear your thoughts...

The parallels you observe are quite correct. Beta, despite being technically superior, failed because it wasn't licensed to other manufactures. Sony wanted to go their own way, and it backfired this time.

This time, Sony has learned from that lesson, and Blu-ray is licensed to numerous companies, including Sony's competitors. Toshiba is making the same mistake Sony made back then (except their technology is NOT superior to the alternative!): going it alone despite overwhelming evidence that that is not the best way to do it.

For whatever reason, Toshiba hasn't licensed HD DVD to its competitors (or at least, hasn't done so in a way that is attractive to 3rd parties), and will lose at least partly because of that.

Frankly, I'm amazed about how many HD DVD players have been sold, especially since the beginning of 2007. I guess being first and having a huge amount of bullshit on their side has helped... But one has to wonder at the mental faculties of people who choose to buy into HD DVD now. *shrug*

[halon]

HA HA! We had a beta max when i was kid. i think it is still at my parents house, somewhere.

[ReduxInflux]

Originally Posted by richteer

Frankly, I'm amazed about how many HD DVD players have been sold, especially since the beginning of 2007. I guess being first and having a huge amount of bullshit on their side has helped... But one has to wonder at the mental faculties of people who choose to buy into HD DVD now. *shrug*

honestly...in my opinion, and this is coming from someone who was aware of HD-DVD but knew not a thing about blu-ray a few months ago...i thought HD-DVD was just a high definition disk you could play on your standard dvd player. i started noticing in store displays at Best Buy sometime last year when i was checking out their tvs. king kong was playing and i thought it looked incredible. i was about to buy one but noticed the price was really high and thats the only thing that averted me from a purchase. i knew NOTHING. and i'm sure most people don't either. i have a friend at work who has an HD-DVD player and has never heard of blu-ray. heck, when i first heard of blu-ray, i had not a clue what it was. sounded like a marine mammal to me. HD-DVD is just straight up in its verbiage - High Definition DVD. there is no confusion. its right there on the surface and its really marketable. if i remained in my ignorance and wasn't as perfectionistic or sleuthy as i am, i probably would have bought one. hmmm...HD-DVD. sounds great. its cheap, looks good - lets do it...only later to find out that i was a sucker. and im sure thats status quo right there.

[Ashplisken]

As much as I thought HD-DVD's name would help them gain the advantage in the beginning of this "war" (I always rooted for blu-ray), it turned out to hurt them more than help them. Many people thought, as said, that HD-DVD was just a high def dvd that you could play on a normal dvd player. Many purchases have been mistakenly made and returned for this reason, and I believe that probably leaves people with a bad taste in their mouth for HD-DVD overall. Funny how these things work out.

[Anthony P]

The problem (at least with most HD DVD fanboys) version is

Beta had better PQ, it lost, BD supposedly can have better PQ so it will lose.

The problem with such thinking is that Beta did not lose because it had better PQ, it lost despite it.

I was a kid during the beta/VHS wars (well a teen or close to it when my dad got a beta)
what people forget is that different people have different priorities. If you were away for a week you could use a VHS to tape your 5 episodes but not a beta tape. For longer movies Beta needed two tapes way before VHS did. As people were buying more VHS players studios started supporting VHS more (or beta less) so newer buyers had less incentives to buy a Beta then VHS.....

The thing is that what ever metric is the most important to an individual BD has an advantage over HD DVD.

My dad at the time decided he spent his money on Beta and was nt going to buy a VHS player, on the other hand for me and my sisters going and renting movies was extremely hard because the movies we wanted were on VHS. I used the first few pay checks on my first job to buy a VHS player for our home.

[Deciazulado]

Several Beta I > Beta II = VHS SP image quality posts by Shadowself and me. Still the same story.

[The Don]

there is no comparing the 2 wars....

BetaMax has better technology AND studio support...

plus the whole PS3 thing...

no comparison..

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Several Beta I > Beta II = VHS SP image quality posts by Shadowself and me. Still the same story.

I didn't recognize you, Deci!

I'm used to your old avatar. lol

[GreenMotion]

What happened to the good old times?

"In Stereo Where Available" :-)

[DTMoney84]

I think there is one huge factor in which people are missing and it is the main reason why these two wars cannot be compared. Information is so much more abundant these days than it was then. I was not around for the beta max/VHS wars as I was only born in 1983. I imagine however that not too many people were that well informed about the two different formats. These days however with the power of the internet there is so much information available to everybody at the touch of a button. Back then BETA may have been technologically superior to VHS however im sure that information did not get accross to many people. Today however anybody who wants information about Blu-ray or HD-DVD can do 20 minutes of research and find out most of the information they need to make their decision as I myself did. Therefore while better technology did not win the war for BETA, I think it serves in Blu-ray's advantage because that fact is readily available to many more people.

[phil]

It's all about the support from outsiders, right now Blu Ray has more studio support and overall support (PC uses) Then HD DVD does right now (Face it, right now HD DVD is on a string with Universal, one string, cut the one string and what happens?)

Beta didn't have nearly as much support as Blu Ray has right now. And Blu Ray isn't just Sony, like Beta was. Blu Ray was developed by Phillips/LG in partner with Sony.

[insom187]

I think when people want to make the jump to hi-def they will walk into a store or start shopping online and decide to also get a movie for their soon-to-be new purchase. When they reach for Spiderman 3 or Pirates 3 (decnt movies whose visuals will fully exploit their player and TV) they will see it in only one format: Blu-ray. It is that kind of experience that will dictate which player they then choose to get.

[NutsAboutPS3]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

what people forget is that different people have different priorities. If you were away for a week you could use a VHS to tape your 5 episodes but not a beta tape. For longer movies Beta needed two tapes way before VHS did.

Exactly - recording time (capacity) is a technical issue, so it is incorrect to describe Betamax as technically superior. VHS won because it had greater capacity. BD will also win because it has greater capacity. The VHS vs Betamax war taught us that greater capacity wins.

[johnnyd1]

Originally Posted by den4blu

HA HA! We had a beta max when i was kid. i think it is still at my parents house, somewhere.

Send it to me. I have beta movies I can't watch because my Beta max broke a few years ago

[JayAuritt]

Originally Posted by NutsAboutPS3

Exactly - recording time (capacity) is a technical issue, so it is incorrect to describe Betamax as technically superior. VHS won because it had greater capacity. BD will also win because it has greater capacity. The VHS vs Betamax war taught us that greater capacity wins.

VHS did win because of it's longer recording time, but it also won because the consumers at that time were so enamored with the fact that they could actually videotape TV programs (which, if you're old enough, was an absolutely amazing development to us back in the stoneage) that they completely ignored the fact that the picture totally sucked. I had a friend who boasted about having over one thousand movies on VHS tape - but the pq on those movies, all recorded at the 6-hr speed, 3 movies to a tape, was akin to viewing a picture through a TV screen smeared with vasoline.

[actionhank]

lol I still use my VCR to record stuff on TV! Yeah I do have a DVR, but sometimes you want to watch the episode upstairs in the exercise room and I can't bring the DVR up there.

I also have a collection of recorded 2006 and 2007 F1 races on VHS.

The picture quality is indeed horrendous, but at least it doesn't fill up my DVR.

[lsuslu]

the reason VHS won at that time is it was adopted by the porn industry as the universal way to record( due to longer record times) this killed off betamax, even though the beta was a better technology and still used today by networks for commercial broadcast.
HD-DVD was also adopted by the porn industry as the new way to record, but most people today do not buy porn at a store or order it, they find it online in the privacy and comfort of their own homes. which is funny because porn also was responsible for how increadible modern internet is today. because of this it has given the Blu-Ray the edge with larger capacities for bussiness to back up their data along with consumers with tax records, and the superior technology of bluray laser. i did find out that bluray technology was acutally developed by pioneer, pioneer reached a wall with the technology and released it to sony to finish development. Blu-Ray(Sony) also made a stand against porn and therefore recieved Disney's support.
oh and i still have a working betamax player, which i have been offered well over a grand for from people that have their family movies recorded on beta. I like my PS3 alot better!

[WickyWoo]

the reason VHS won at that time is it was adopted by the porn industry as the universal way to record( due to longer record times) this killed off betamax, even though the beta was a better technology and still used today by networks for commercial broadcast.

No, it won because JVC licensed their technology to all the other CE companies while Sony wanted to keep beta to themselves. Combine that with longer recording times and that was all she wrote.

VHS made viewing porn in the home possible. It was a great boon. Now everyone looks at it on the net.


HD DVD used the porn industry to take a cheap shot at Blu, because all of the major facilities (where the only Blu-Ray lines were housed at the time) have no-porn policies, as required by the studios for them to do business with you. There was no "stand against porn" by anyone.

[Maxell]

Beta is still used by many television studios around the world.