Man of the East / E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico title order

[Sonnenwirthle]

Verflucht, verdammt und Halleluja! Blu-ray

Currently, this Italian film is listed under its German name (Verflucht, verdammt und Halleluja).

Since it's seemingly custom here to have the international English-language title as the main title, no matter what country an edition is released in, this should be under Man of the East, should it not?

Personally, I'd prefer the original title for all films (E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico, in this case), but that's sadly not done that way here. However, there's certainly no reason for the German variant to be displayed first.

[Kristian Idol]

Originally Posted by Sonnenwirthle

Since it's seemingly custom here to have the international English-language title as the main title, no matter what country an edition is released in, this should be under Man of the East, should it not?

Personally, I'd prefer the original title for all films (E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico, in this case), but that's sadly not done that way here. However, there's certainly no reason for the German variant to be displayed first.

I've occasionally been guilty of this; the thought is to prioritize whatever the title is on the specific release's artwork. I've had to go back and forth a couple times on (David Fincher's) Seven, which in some posters and media is "Se7en". But that doesn't alphabetize correctly and I can't believe anybody searches using that term, so it should never be first. It's just clever marketing. (see Scre4m, et al)

You're right, though, the information under the Title's "?" icon (in "Edit movie") says "Always use English first..." so I submitted a change for this Blu-ray for you: title in English then Italian then German. Let's see if they accept it.

[Sonnenwirthle]

'kay, thanks.

I'd actually made a proposal to introduce a system like the one used over at IMDb, where you can set a preference as to what language you'd like your titles to be displayed in (i.e., one could chose "original" – including original characters, if desired –, "International English Title" or some local concoction; or, as to your point, "as displayed on the cover" of a specific release), but it was never taken up.

[djvaso]

Hello,
this is guidelines for titles by Deciazulado:
For English movies put English title, then local title and/or foreign title and/or alternate title in parenthesis

For foreign movies in the international databases put local title first, + then foreign title (if not the same) and english title and/or alternate tilte in parenthesis.

Thank you for consideration.

[Sonnenwirthle]

So, in other words, the way that title was / is being displayed (but that's not the way it's handled generally here), right?

To me, that's the worst "solution" by far. So bad, that, if that becomes the new standard here, I'm gonna abandon this database.

[djvaso]

I received yesterday private message from Site Manager with subject "the old guidelines post". There is guidelines for titles. I think the best way is to contact Deciazulado directly.
Personally, I prefer orders at filmaf.com database: local title, original title (if applicable), alternative tile (if applicable).

[Sonnenwirthle]

I do not understand. Which guideline is obsolete, international > original > local or local > original > international? (I don't think you've refuted Kristian Idol, who points to the instructions within the editing mask)

But again, why not just have a preference system, as I suggested?

In the submission form, simply have dedicated fields that are named accordingly. You then pick in your settings what titles are displayed in which order.

That way, everyone could have exactly what they want.

[djvaso]

Originally Posted by Sonnenwirthle

I do not understand. Which guideline is obsolete, international > original > local or local > original > international? (I don't think you've refuted Kristian Idol, who points to the instructions within the editing mask)

But again, why not just have a preference system, as I suggested?

In the submission form, simply have dedicated fields that are named accordingly. You then pick in your settings what titles are displayed in which order.

That way, everyone could have exactly what they want.

For English movie: english > local > alternative
For foreign movie: local > original > english (alternative)

[Sonnenwirthle]

You didn't answer my question. You just rephrased what you already wrote.

I do understand your guideline. I do not understand why you think it is in effect here. And I do not understand what the PM that you received from that site manager dude is about.

[djvaso]

Originally Posted by Sonnenwirthle

You didn't answer my question. You just rephrased what you already wrote.

I do understand your guideline. I do not understand why you think it is in effect here. And I do not understand what the PM that you received from that site manager dude is about.

It is in effect here because Deciazulado is Blu-ray.com Site Manager and he gives instructions.

[Leterface]

Having the Swedish relase of this film I would think this German release should also look very good in PQ.

[Deciazulado]

Ok.

This site is mostly English centric even tho it's an international site. And Hollywood is also in English
So most movie titles are in English, because the movies are made in English. So that takes precedence: US/UK etc movie: English title first on their discs entries. Because the name of the movie is in English:

Nanny McPhee first on all databases

We also have international disc databases. On those you add the English title of English (or Anglo, to be precise) movies, and if the movie has an international title-title translated into that country's language you put it next in (parenthesis) in those international databases so that for example if someone from Germany is looking for a movie in the German database using the local title as it is known in Germany, instead of the English title, he can find it too in the Search:

Nanny McPhee (Eine zauberhafte Nanny) on database

Now of course if the movie is German, it should have the German title first on the German database and the translated English title in parenthesis next, so:

Die Blechtrommel (The Tin Drum) on database

Because a German would know it's own films in German and look at the German database expecting German language movies in German, specially on the lists, with the English title next because the site is English centric and many people outside of Germany might be looking for a " "Tinbook" " or foreign editions by the English title to add to their collections, etc. etc.

On the Anglo countries databases this would be:

The Tin Drum (Die Blechtrommel)

Because people would expect to find it by the English title in the Anglo databases, and the original title is added so people that may know it by that name but not speak English might find it too as it's the real name for the movie.


Now when it's a non-English movie that's not on it's own country's database (which is Sonnenwirthle's inquiry) we may have a third case:

The original (non English) movie's name, the English-centric name, and the local country's translated name on that particular country's db:

For example the Terence Hill western spaghetti movie: "E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico"

The original title is in Italian, it's titled "Man of the East" in the West () and "Verflucht, verdammt und Halleluja!", for example, in Germany.

So on Italian database should be:

E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico (Man of the East)

US/UK/AU etc databases:

Man of the East (E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico)

German database (Third case):

Verflucht, verdammt und Halleluja! (E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico) (Man of the East)


etc, etc, covering all bases.

(btw the order of the second and third (parenthesis) titles shouldn't really matter as the parenthesis feature is there to help in the Search, as everything on the main title and on the pathenthesis should show up on a search and that's why the extra titles are added, to help people find what they're looking for, even if they know the movie by a different (local) (original) etc name. Is (or should) be that way (local/original/English/alternate/etc) for uniformity)

This is also why certain alternate titles or descriptors are added to some disc titles (Example James Bond, so if someone puts in James Bond in the Search it will pull up all titles as they are so many, instead of people having to type each movie title one by one to see what's available. Then you can sort the result by year, or alphabetical, disc release country, etc)

Again , this is all done to facilitate people finding what they're looking for and to have completeness.

-

On the master theatrical (movie) database since the site is English centric (Maybe one day there would be different language versions but we'd have to clone ourselves or have Brady Bunch numbers of kids) therefore the English title (if available) is used for all movies, followed by the original language title (and sometimes a very common alternate title). With the different features hopefully everything is linked together eventually (discs with movies and sets) and you can find the different editions:

Nanny McPhee
Man of the East (E poi lo chiamarono il magnifico)
The Tin Drum (Die Blechtrommel)


We had some people working on the database before that didn't understand this and even explained it all wrong to people and they slowly corrupted the db with errors even when I came and posted the correct way immediately after they posted the wrong way (I had to make one such change now in one of the examples I was using ) (there are million cases in the naked city, this is one of them)

[Sonnenwirthle]

Thanks, Deciazulado, for this thorough answer. But, man, is it disheartening.

After mainly lurking the fora for some time, I decided it's time to give back a bit and have submitted a dozen or so titles over the last few days.

But this "news" (and to me, it was news, as – as you write yourself – there are many titles who currently don't follow this local > original > international order) is really driving me away from this place.

You say the order doesn't matter (because films are found in all title varieties), but it does. There are many people who collect BDs from all over the world, and to them (or to quite a few of them, including me), it's an abomination to have a BD show up in an unexpected place under some obscure title in list mode (by the way, I do speak German, so that's no the issue for the specific title in question). Also, if you have different editions from different countries for a title, the same film will show up in different places in the list. That's just..., well, I think it's bad.

As I wrote earlier, personally, I'd prefer all films listed under their original title, period. I can, however, [although barely] live with international titles. See, they're actually international titles (used at film festivals and awards ceremonies), not just English titles, which makes the guideline here (having two sets of rules, one for English-language and one for foreign-language films) all the more illogical and confusing.

Again, to accommodate everyone (even sticklers like me), the ideal solution would be a preferences-based titles display system, but even if the powers that be (you) agreed, I guess that'd be off the cards at least for now (you hinted at logistical issues / understaffing).

You may laugh, this really makes me sad.

[Funktion]

Does anyone own this release?

Are the subtitles removable?

[UseY0ur1llusi0n]

Originally Posted by Funktion

Does anyone own this release?

Are the subtitles removable?

Yup, absolutely. no forced subs.

[Funktion]

Originally Posted by UseY0ur1llusi0n

Yup, absolutely. no forced subs.

Thank you for the info.

[sa5150]

Old thread ....was hoping someone knows which is better the Remastered Koch vs the Kino ? Seems Kino from a review used the poor first Koch transfer which is blurry soft and cropped .

[Charlie79]

The Remastered Koch-disc comes from an Italian negative scan, while the Kino got the MGM-master.