Format War

[DarthDVDS]

I pulled this from Movieweb.com


The format war between the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats doesn't appear to be over anytime soon... and the fans love it.

The battle for supremacy of the hi-def DVD market has its own brand of fans on each side, and they're using several different venues on the Internet to show which flag they're flying. Here's a small sampling of some recent blurbs from these sites:

"All's fair in the war at this point. Payback is a *****." - from a HD-DVD fan on HighDefDigest.com.

"I take anything and everything that Microsoft says with a grain of salt the size of the Paramount Pictures mountain." - from a Blu-ray supporter on HomeTheaterForum.com.

"You're either a troll or just an ignorant fool." and "BD fanboys are friggin' idiots." - from two HD-DVD fans on Engadget.com.

Apparently one site, AVSForum, had to shut down their forum for a week because a debate escalated to physical threats and the police were involved in some cases. The heart of the format war is quite clear to one observer: cash.

"Money. Plain and simple." said Geoff Kleinman, editor and founder of DVDTalk.com. "Consumers in this war are voting with their dollars, and they don't want to see that investment be for a format that dies, making their investment 'worthless,'" he said. "People can be extremely dogmatic when it comes to this format war."

The websites that serve as the venue for these cyber-debates do have moderating policies in place, for those who go to far.

""When someone chooses a technology, they are usually convinced that it is the best, and when others don't agree, they take it personally," said Ben Drawbaugh, an Engadget.com HD reporter. "We're fortunate, and we don't see threatening comments. But we do see some that are insulting. Sometimes we delete them, other times we let them go. It depends on how bad they are - and if they are witty."

[Spankey]

End Gadget and DVD Talk. Two completely unbiased sources..Ugh!

It is NOT about what format I may or may not have chosen. Blu-ray is technically superior. Period!

[Blu-Style]

Originally Posted by DarthDVDS

"When someone chooses a technology, they are usually convinced that it is the best, and when others don't agree, they take it personally,"

I KNOW that Blu-ray is the superior format

There are facts on the table you can´t deny,
And if those HDDVD people still don´t see the light,... sorry I can´t help you...

[Neo65]

It's a fine line between disagreeing and being disagreeable.

When I see the extreme rhetoric from either side, that repels me from that format. Who wants to be associated with having the same players as the disagreeable people.

Think of it like having irritating neighbors. If you don't like them and they buy a particular car, you tend to buy something else because you don't want to be reminded that you're driving the same sort of car as 'those nuts'.

[CptGreedle]

Fans LOVE it?
I HATE this war!! It takes up too much of my time, it is hurting my chances of seeing the movies I want on the format I support...

I wish it was over already!! Fans don't love it.. we abhor it but fight because we know there has to be an end and then we will get what we really love.. HD movies.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by DarthDVDS

I pulled this from Movieweb.com


The format war between the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats doesn't appear to be over anytime soon... and the fans love it.

False. The article is based on a completely false premise from the get-go.

No enthusiast worth their salt is a fan of a format war. Even many zealots on both sides would agree with each other on at least that much.

The only "fans" that might love it are desperate HD-DVD zealots who will support anything that keeps "their beloved format" alive at all. That's the only way that statement makes any kind of sense at all.

[bkbluray]

Originally Posted by JTK

False. The article is based on a completely false premise from the get-go.

No enthusiast worth their salt is a fan of a format war. Even many zealots on both sides would agree with each other on at least that much.

The only "fans" that might love it are desperate HD-DVD zealots who will support anything that keeps "their beloved format" alive at all. That's the only way that statement makes any kind of sense at all.

+1

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by JTK

False. The article is based on a completely false premise from the get-go.

No enthusiast worth their salt is a fan of a format war. Even many zealots on both sides would agree with each other on at least that much.

The only "fans" that might love it are desperate HD-DVD zealots who will support anything that keeps "their beloved format" alive at all. That's the only way that statement makes any kind of sense at all.

That fact plus the fact that they ignore the fact that we base our preference on technical superiority rather than not wanting to lose our investment shows that this article is yet another piece of red side FUD.

[DarthDVDS]

here is some more news in the format war

Here's an interesting wrinkle into the format war.

According to a story from DVD Town, the DVD Forum recently approved a 51GB version of the HD DVD format disc. This is a large upgrade from their current capacity of 17 GB that their dual-layer discs can hold. This 51GB disc will be a triple-layered disc, and will have a 1GB edge over Blu-Ray's 50GB dual-layered discs.

The interesting wrinkle part is that Disney, normally a big Blu-Ray supporter, voted for the upgrade at a DVD Forum meeting in September, even though, backers of opposing formats normally don't vote for upgrades to their opponents. The meaning of this vote is unclear, but, of course, speculation is abound, with some feeling that Disney is starting to sway towards HD DVD, perhaps trying to play both sides of the fence.


It looks like Warner Brothers just may have to choose a side after all.

Since Warner is the only studio who hasn't chosen a side in the HD DVD/Blu-Ray format war, it could end up throwing a monkey wrench into their plans for consolidation, dubbed Total HD. The studio had revealed in January their plans for Total HD, a disc that would support both next-generation formats, with HD DVD content on one side, and Blu-Ray content on the other side. They originally wanted to market Total HD for a September release, but that was later pushed to early 2008. Now, with Paramount switching exclusively to HD DVD, and every other studio in one camp or another, it seems like it's on the back burner.

"It would be tough to proceed, since we are the last man standing in both formats," said Ron Sanders, president of Warner Home Video. "This only makes sense for studios supporting both formats, and since Paramount went the other way and retail didn't push the issue, one studio isn't enough for us to pull the trigger." Sanders went on to say that Total HD was "on hold."

[Pike]

The format war is at a stalemate and will be for long time. General consumers who don't like change and tend to stay with what's familiar with them will lean towards HD-DVD because the name isn't all that foreign to them. Early adopters and consumers that like to try the latest and greatest with go with Blu-Ray because it's something different and new. Because of this split of interest, neither format will come out on top for at least another year or so.

Just my $.02.

[CptGreedle]

Personally, I don't think this is at a stalemate at all. Only the Price war is. Toshiba can not drop the price much lower since it is already $199... and the BDA can not control the prices like Toshiba so each company has to decide what to choose, and they are closer to $399. The prices are stuck here for now.
But so much is going on elsewhere. The new profile is coming out. The movie titles are growing. The sales for PS3 and such. The new advertising campaigns. The promotions across the country to support BD (i.e. Disney).
This is no stalemate, don't read into the statement that was misquoted from the Sony CEO... he was talking about price and only price. Right now, BDA is focusing on everything else, cause price is not the only factor, and soon it will not even be an issue when in 08 BD players drop to $199 or less as well.

[Slapper]

Originally Posted by DarthDVDS

here is some more news in the format war

Here's an interesting wrinkle into the format war.

According to a story from DVD Town, the DVD Forum recently approved a 51GB version of the HD DVD format disc. This is a large upgrade from their current capacity of 17 GB that their dual-layer discs can hold. This 51GB disc will be a triple-layered disc, and will have a 1GB edge over Blu-Ray's 50GB dual-layered discs.

The interesting wrinkle part is that Disney, normally a big Blu-Ray supporter, voted for the upgrade at a DVD Forum meeting in September, even though, backers of opposing formats normally don't vote for upgrades to their opponents. The meaning of this vote is unclear, but, of course, speculation is abound, with some feeling that Disney is starting to sway towards HD DVD, perhaps trying to play both sides of the fence.

I think Disney voted this way as a "just in the very slim chance that Blu-ray doesn't win, at least we'll have a slightly less hobbled back-up HDM format to work with" kind of vote.

You should always have a back-up plan in business.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by DarthDVDS

According to a story from DVD Town

Pay no heed to DVD Town, most biased hi-def site on the net. As you can see above their page, they are funded by the HPG.

What makes the MovieWeb reporter think any of us *like* dealing with fanboys? I'm not in it for the debate, I'm in it for better home theater.

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by Blu-Style

I KNOW that Blu-ray is the superior format

There are facts on the table you can´t deny,
And if those HDDVD people still don´t see the light,... sorry I can´t help you...

what facts and how is bd the superior format?
are you talking pq?
are you talking aq?
are you talking profiles?what
to me the issue with these formats is there to much alike.
both 1080p...both aq the same.
bd catching up with profiles.
depending on how well the disc was done and what was used for pq and aq its hard to tell whos superior.
are you talking space?well hd dvd is testing there 51g disc.
so as the the ceo of sony said its dead even.
im not happy as a blu-ray supporter that i may have to replace my profile 1.0 player with a 1.1 player,if they keep having issues with the software.
no! im gonna say it ban me if you want.
blu-ray is not the superior format...hd dvd isnt ether.
like i said there to much alike and when one side comes out with something like 3d movies ..now your talking

[sj001]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

what facts and how is bd the superior format?
are you talking pq?
are you talking aq?
are you talking profiles?what
to me the issue with these formats is there to much alike.
both 1080p...both aq the same.
bd catching up with profiles.
depending on how well the disc was done and what was used for pq and aq its hard to tell whos superior.
are you talking space?well hd dvd is testing there 51g disc.
so as the the ceo of sony said its dead even.
im not happy as a blu-ray supporter that i may have to replace my profile 1.0 player with a 1.1 player,if they keep having issues with the software.
no! im gonna say it ban me if you want.
blu-ray is not the superior format...hd dvd isnt ether.
like i said there to much alike and when one side comes out with something like 3d movies ..now your talking

Everything in here can be disputed, most of what you say is false.

I don't think they are alike as much as you think. You are falling for FUD.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

what facts and how is bd the superior format?
are you talking pq?
are you talking aq?
are you talking profiles?what
to me the issue with these formats is there to much alike.
both 1080p...both aq the same.
bd catching up with profiles.
depending on how well the disc was done and what was used for pq and aq its hard to tell whos superior.
are you talking space?well hd dvd is testing there 51g disc.
so as the the ceo of sony said its dead even.

Taking your points in order, Blu-ray is superior because:

PQ: Higher bandwidth availability means that stuff doesn't need to be compressed so much, therefore less compression artifacts. And Blu-ray's greater capacity means that that less highly compressed stuff has room to actually exist. (High bit rate would mean nothing if there was only room for 15 minutes!)

AQ: Same as PQ. Hence the much more frequent use of lossless audio on BDs.

Profiles: Yes, HD DVD has had network connectivity and PiP since day one. But how many HD DVD players are actually connected to a network to take advantage of it? Also, HD DVD's PiP is SD only, whereas BD's can be HD.

HD51: Please, it's in very early testing and probably won't play on the earliest HD DVD players (so much for a complete spec, hmm?). Until a movie is released on it, HD51 is vapourware--or as Amir would have it, science fiction.

And no, Son't CEO didn't say it was dead even. He was misquoted, as has been proven several times already.

[Dalese]

Originally Posted by Slapper

I think Disney voted this way as a "just in the very slim chance that Blu-ray doesn't win, at least we'll have a slightly less hobbled back-up HDM format to work with" kind of vote.

You should always have a back-up plan in business.

IMO it's not so much a back-up plan but a confirmation from Disney that HD-DVD as it exists right now is unacceptable to them for the use they want to make of high definition. I'm sure if the HD-DVD forum votes to increase their maximum allowable bandwidth, Disney might vote yes for it too.

Until HD-DVD can make itself truely an equal to Blu-ray, I don't think we have anything to fear of Disney turning purple.

And while Hd-DVD is still "proposing" improvments to their own format, the Blu-ray format continues to gain steam with more players and movies being sold.

[Blu-Style]

Originally Posted by richteer

Taking your points in order, Blu-ray is superior because:

PQ: Higher bandwidth availability means that stuff doesn't need to be compressed so much, therefore less compression artifacts. And Blu-ray's greater capacity means that that less highly compressed stuff has room to actually exist. (High bit rate would mean nothing if there was only room for 15 minutes!)

AQ: Same as PQ. Hence the much more frequent use of lossless audio on BDs.

Profiles: Yes, HD DVD has had network connectivity and PiP since day one. But how many HD DVD players are actually connected to a network to take advantage of it? Also, HD DVD's PiP is SD only, whereas BD's can be HD.

HD51: Please, it's in very early testing and probably won't play on the earliest HD DVD players (so much for a complete spec, hmm?). Until a movie is released on it, HD51 is vapourware--or as Amir would have it, science fiction.

And no, Son't CEO didn't say it was dead even. He was misquoted, as has been proven several times already.

Thanks for pointing this out


@tvine2000

I want to add another one...
Simple but clear:

• Studio Support!

And now tell my why people still choose hddvd ?

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by sj001

Everything in here can be disputed, most of what you say is false.

I don't think they are alike as much as you think. You are falling for FUD.

really your not telling me noting except anybody that dissagee with you is full of fud.
cop out

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by Blu-Style

Thanks for pointing this out


@tvine2000

I want to add another one...
Simple but clear:

• Studio Support!

And now tell my why people still choose hddvd ?

what studio support! that not has great as its use to be.
you can get many import titles that are bd in hd dvd.
maybe theres studio support here but this war is all over the planet.
look am a little worried when the ceo of sony starts saying what he said.
so im concerned about hdm in general. well blu-ray win,i hope so but im not sure as i was 6 months ago.so ok i know relax and let it play out...im fine