attach rate myths

[VenomXR8]

I love bluray.com but Im also a member of a few "Neutral" forums that seem to have more hd dvd supporters than blu ray supporters and when ever I try to bring up the advantages of blu ray over hd dvd they ALL throw the attach rate argument at me. Id mention blu rays bandwith advantage, they say It doesnt matter we have a higher attach rate. I mention blu rays higher storage capacity, they say it doesnt matter we have higher attach rates and so on and so on. That seems to be their ONLY argument so I decided to look into it to see if it had any merit to their argument and I gotta say, its pure FUD.

You see, when the average hd dvd supporter counts the number of players sold for each format they DONT count the ps3 but they count the xbox360 add on drive. So thats how they get to the 750,000 hd dvd players to 400,000 blu ray players (if we counted the ps3 we would be over a million players proberly closer if not over 2 mil)

So when we come to the attach rate figures if we were to use the figures the hd dvd fans state above (remember we are NOT counting the ps3) we should get a higher attach rate for blu ray because with LESS players sold but MORE movies sold each week on blu shouldnt that mean that blu Ray has the higher attach rate? for arguments sake lets say that there was 100,000 blu ray players and 200,000 movies sold that would be a ratio of 2 movies per player where if there was 200,000 hd dvd players and 100,000 movies sold that would be a ration of .5 movies per player. Seems like higher attach rates for blu ray doesnt it. But NO, when hd dvd fans mention attach rates they DO INCLUDE THE PS3 in the ration which heavily skews the numbers in their favour simply because there are so many ps3's out there (over a million maybe 2 in the us) and unfortunately not all ps3 owners are aware/willing to get into the blu revolution. So there you have it, hd dvd's biggest argument is a load of crap.
Thoughts?

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by VenomXR8

I love bluray.com but Im also a member of a few "Neutral" forums that seem to have more hd dvd supporters than blu ray supporters and when ever I try to bring up the advantages of blu ray over hd dvd they ALL throw the attach rate argument at me. Id mention blu rays bandwith advantage, they say It doesnt matter we have a higher attach rate. I mention blu rays higher storage capacity, they say it doesnt matter we have higher attach rates and so on and so on.

Here is a question for those HD DVD supporters:

If the VMD format sells 1% of the number of players as HD DVD, but 2% of the number of discs (twice the attach rate for VMD over HD DVD), will you claim that VMD is beating HD DVD? If not, why not?

I would say this would separate the real idiots from those who are somewhat rational, but just the fact that they think the best attach rate is what determines the format doing the best pretty much shows they are idiots. Toshiba isn't actually dumb enough to think that the highest attach rate is how you judge how a format is doing. They wouldn't be doing all the things that they are doing if they thought that (since they are purposely doing things that lower their attach rate), even though they are willing to spin it as if highest attach rate wins. One difference is that some of their followers actually seem to be dumb enough to believe that is the gauge for a format. I doubt they would make it long making decisions for studios.

Here's another question. For your job, would you rather that 5 different departments each paid you and the total came to $5000 per month, or that just 1 department paid you, and it was $2500 per month?

Some of them might not get the relevance of the last one, but some might.

--Darin

[roachxp]

I think the best way for Sony to find out how many people use the PS3 Bluray function is to have an update that phones back to the PS network for small update every 2 months like for a screensaver even if it runs in the background everytime a bluray is inserted.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by roachxp

I think the best way for Sony to find out how many people use the PS3 Bluray function is to have an update that phones back to the PS network for small update every 2 months like for a screensaver even if it runs in the background everytime a bluray is inserted.

Yikes... a little too much Big Brother in that concept for my liking! Although, an anonymous survey somehow submitted to every active PSN account would be interesting.

[VenomXR8]

Originally Posted by roachxp

I think the best way for Sony to find out how many people use the PS3 Bluray function is to have an update that phones back to the PS network for small update every 2 months like for a screensaver even if it runs in the background everytime a bluray is inserted.

That might be a big hard because arnt all ps3 games on blu ray discs?

[richard lichtenfelt]

That's it. I'm switching to hd dvd, they have attach rates. All we have are better movie sales, better sales on movies, wider selection of movies to choose from, better disc capacity, better audio, and a 48mbps to 30 mbps bandwidth advantage (+62.5%).
Attach rates, what fun.

[VenomXR8]

Originally Posted by richard lichtenfelt

That's it. I'm switching to hd dvd, they have attach rates. All we have are better movie sales, better sales on movies, wider selection of movies to choose from, better disc capacity, better audio, and a 48mbps to 30 mbps bandwidth advantage (+62.5%).
Attach rates, what fun.

lol +1

[roachxp]

Only when Bluray movies are loaded, even if it a one time thing.

A poll would be a good thing like the Blood Diamond HDDVD poll asking what people would like to see in the future, I know 2001 Space Odessey was one of the top vote winners but mostly were classics from WB older catalog, and it came out last month. Wizard of Oz was another top vote winner.

But like Universal CEO said HDM studios can't release all there top catalog titles at once they have to slowly release them, and it costs alot to remaster them and right now there are low volumes for both formats.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by darinp2

Here is a question for those HD DVD supporters:

If the VMD format sells 1% of the number of players as HD DVD, but 2% of the number of discs (twice the attach rate for VMD over HD DVD), will you claim that VMD is beating HD DVD? If not, why not?

I would say this would separate the real idiots from those who are somewhat rational, but just the fact that they think the best attach rate is what determines the format doing the best pretty much shows they are idiots. Toshiba isn't actually dumb enough to think that the highest attach rate is how you judge how a format is doing. They wouldn't be doing all the things that they are doing if they thought that (since they are purposely doing things that lower their attach rate), even though they are willing to spin it as if highest attach rate wins. One difference is that some of their followers actually seem to be dumb enough to believe that is the gauge for a format. I doubt they would make it long making decisions for studios.

Here's another question. For your job, would you rather that 5 different departments each paid you and the total came to $5000 per month, or that just 1 department paid you, and it was $2500 per month?

Some of them might not get the relevance of the last one, but some might.

--Darin

I like the idea of fettering out the real dopes. There might not be many dud'ers left after that, though.

[mov9384ie]

attach rates don't matter, only the bottom line does. business is about making money, not ratios.

given 2 formats in any area, the one that wins is the one that sells more and thus the one that makes the most money.

attach rates are historically lower for a winning format and higher for a losing format. thus losing format fans tout attach rates because it's the only big number they have.

why is it higher for a losing format? because it was the enthusiasts that buy into the losing format initially and keep the attach rate high. the winning format is also initially bought by enthusiasts but is later adopted by the mainstream who buy less frequently and thus lower the attach rate.

the losing format also has a higher attach rate because fewer titles get released which causes pent up demand and unusally high sell through.

example: dreamcast had a higher attach rate of games per system than ps2 during the heat of their battle. at the end of the generation xbox1 also had a much higher attach rate than ps2. clearly any corporation would rather be makers of ps2 than the other systems.

example: zune has a higher attach rate of songs per player than ipod

[NutsAboutPS3]

The whole attach rate thing is a load of rubbish.

Firstly, we cannot ever have a comparable measure of attach rates between Blu-ray and HD DVD due to the PS3, for which there is no HD DVD counterpart.

Secondly, as has been pointed out already, even if we could measure it, it wouldn't mean anything. Think about what the various stakeholders in Blu-ray care about:
Retailers - movie sales
Studios - movie sales
Hardware manufacturers - player sales

i.e. none of them care about attach rates.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by mov9384ie

attach rates are historically lower for a winning format and higher for a losing format. thus losing format fans tout attach rates because it's the only big number they have.

Very good point. Does anyone have an example of a format with a higher attach rate winning on a major format battle in the electronics market in the last few decades? If not, we can throw their argument right back at the DUD fanbois.

enjoy
gandalf