Limited Success: HDV to playable Blu-Ray

[Don Blish]

I received a Sony BWU100A drive two weeks ago…the box (with a very low serial#) arrived without the software disc. The “Cyberlink BD Solution 1.0” was mailed by Sony and I have been experimenting with it.

The drive will, of course, make CD, DVD and BD data discs without problems.

For video, I wanted to put my latest HDV project (1080x1440 30i) of 99 minutes on a disc with chapter buttons and further chapter marks for intervening scenes. The bundled software CAN import, add chapter marks and burn to BD-RE, but the menu making module was omitted for now. The software took my edited .avi file (From PremierePro2.0 + Cineform Access HD) of 87gigs (!) and encoded it to 19.3 gigs on BD-RE – about the same size/data rate as it would be on the source HDV tape. This was using Cyberlink Producer 3.3 – BD Edition, version 3.7.0.2824

The resulting disc played and looked stunning, using the included player: PowerDVD 6.6 BD Edition. When inserted into a Samsung BDP1000 on display at an accommodating nearby retailer, the disc WOULD NOT LOAD, and the machine had to be unplugged before eventually ejecting the disc. Of course, there is no way, at present, to tell if it is the Samsung or, more likely, the Cyberlink software at fault.

I also made a test disc with short segments, (including a resolution chart) in four different formats: HDV-1080x1440 16:9, NTSC-DV-480x720 16:9, NTSC-DV-480-720 4:3 and finally PAL-DV-576x720 25fps 16:9. The PowerDVD software played each in sequence, at the correct aspect ration and with only a half second flicker between each segment. If you were going to do this in a finished project, you would want to fade in and out of black and have no audio running over the transition. This disc would not load in the Samsung player either.

Unfortunately, the “capture” function in PowerProducer would not work on any camera (DV or HDV) or from any mode (DVD or BD). While this port on the moterhboard (TI-OCHI) and its Microsoft driver are flawless in PremierePro, it crashed the entire OS if tried in PowerProducer……But then I was not planning to use that function. Also, it would not import the mpeg2 file Cineform makes for exporting back into the camera. There it just crashed the application, not the OS.

For those of you into the details, here is the logical layout of the disc:
Only folder: BDAV
Sub folders: CLIPINF with a tiny file 00001.clpi
PLAYLIST with a tiny file 00001.roks
STREAM with a file 00001.m2ts of 19.336 gigs for 99 minutes

Cyberlink’s PowerToGo “DeskData” application was used to copy the above disc, and that too played in PowerDVD software but we did not try it in the Samsung. There is no explicit “Copy BD movie” tab.

So, at this date (Sep 14, 2006) you CAN put HDV on Blu-ray, but without a menu but you will have little assurance it will play in a Blu-ray player. I expect Cyberlink, with Sony’s urging, will get these features working soon. I certainly hope we have something better from Adobe soon – we don’t need every advanced feature of BDjava menus working for a first version.

[mr5150]

Did you ever get it to work? I have the same problem, though I can't even get the .m2ts files into Cyberlink or any other program. Any Ideas?

Thanks,LArry

[Don Blish]

I am waiting till my Sony BDP-S1 arrives in three weeks, as I am sure the Sammy player was "Pre standard". As to the .m2t file, a post on dvinfo.com encouraged me to use ReMux_TS from here

http://www.yamabe.org/softbody.html

to convert the "transport stream" to regular .mpg. That worked like a charm in PowerProducer. Since it was already .mpg and did not need re-encoding, it went on Blu-Ray at write speed, 48 minutes for a 99 minute project.

[Prophet Izaach]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it says HVD so I was surprised. But a split second later, I realized it's actually HDV.

[Don Blish]

Well, I have a Sony player and it does a beautiful job on purchased BD-ROMs, but playability of my own BD-RE discs will have to await the firmware update in early 2007.

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-i...=163&mdl=BDPS1

[SDK]

Unfortunately I don't have a BD burner so far, but i'd give a try to different authoring and playing software as well as to burning software

1) Changing resolution to standard profiles, i.e 1920x1080

2) Try different authoring software and see if the results can be played at both software players (windvd & powerdvd)

3) Nero Burning Rom allowed you to change DVD's bookmark data from DVD+/-R to DVD-ROM, I wonder if it gives the same feature to Blu-ray, say it would allow you to change BD's bookmark from BD-R to BD-ROM, so the standalone players will consider your BD-R as a standard BD-ROM

ps: all soft is trial, so try them out and don't forget to get BD-RE for these tests

[Don Blish]

Although I have never gotten confirmation anywhere, I believe this all stems from a late Spring'06 decision for user-created content to be written to folder BDAV instead of rights-management endowed BDMV folders that Hollwoood discs use.

Therefore I think you are missing the point - Cyberlink and other recent software is doing it exactly as the Blu-Ray Association demands. It is the players that need updating.

[SDK]

Thanks for the info about the decision.

Did you try to rename the folder? or research for advanced authoring software that is used by Hollymakers?

How do the players behave if you do feed them raw mpeg files? or DVD authored in non-standard mode (1080p@25Mbps)?

[kentfry]

Originally Posted by Don Blish

I received a Sony BWU100A drive two weeks ago…the box (with a very low serial#) arrived without the software disc. The “Cyberlink BD Solution 1.0” was mailed by Sony and I have been experimenting with it.

The drive will, of course, make CD, DVD and BD data discs without problems.

For video, I wanted to put my latest HDV project (1080x1440 30i) of 99 minutes on a disc with chapter buttons and further chapter marks for intervening scenes. The bundled software CAN import, add chapter marks and burn to BD-RE, but the menu making module was omitted for now. The software took my edited .avi file (From PremierePro2.0 + Cineform Access HD) of 87gigs (!) and encoded it to 19.3 gigs on BD-RE – about the same size/data rate as it would be on the source HDV tape. This was using Cyberlink Producer 3.3 – BD Edition, version 3.7.0.2824

The resulting disc played and looked stunning, using the included player: PowerDVD 6.6 BD Edition. When inserted into a Samsung BDP1000 on display at an accommodating nearby retailer, the disc WOULD NOT LOAD, and the machine had to be unplugged before eventually ejecting the disc. Of course, there is no way, at present, to tell if it is the Samsung or, more likely, the Cyberlink software at fault.

I also made a test disc with short segments, (including a resolution chart) in four different formats: HDV-1080x1440 16:9, NTSC-DV-480x720 16:9, NTSC-DV-480-720 4:3 and finally PAL-DV-576x720 25fps 16:9. The PowerDVD software played each in sequence, at the correct aspect ration and with only a half second flicker between each segment. If you were going to do this in a finished project, you would want to fade in and out of black and have no audio running over the transition. This disc would not load in the Samsung player either.

Unfortunately, the “capture” function in PowerProducer would not work on any camera (DV or HDV) or from any mode (DVD or BD). While this port on the moterhboard (TI-OCHI) and its Microsoft driver are flawless in PremierePro, it crashed the entire OS if tried in PowerProducer……But then I was not planning to use that function. Also, it would not import the mpeg2 file Cineform makes for exporting back into the camera. There it just crashed the application, not the OS.

For those of you into the details, here is the logical layout of the disc:
Only folder: BDAV
Sub folders: CLIPINF with a tiny file 00001.clpi
PLAYLIST with a tiny file 00001.roks
STREAM with a file 00001.m2ts of 19.336 gigs for 99 minutes

Cyberlink’s PowerToGo “DeskData” application was used to copy the above disc, and that too played in PowerDVD software but we did not try it in the Samsung. There is no explicit “Copy BD movie” tab.

So, at this date (Sep 14, 2006) you CAN put HDV on Blu-ray, but without a menu but you will have little assurance it will play in a Blu-ray player. I expect Cyberlink, with Sony’s urging, will get these features working soon. I certainly hope we have something better from Adobe soon – we don’t need every advanced feature of BDjava menus working for a first version.

Like Don, I have struggled to get my HDV footage onto a blu-ray disk with navigable menus. I also use Premiere Pro 2 with Aspect HD intermediate. Now I have DVDit! Pro HD and am able to create navigable menus. I have burned them to a BD-RE, in BDMV format. The files on the BD-RE look the same as a commercial BD. So far so good. However, I can't find a software player to play back the BDMV on the BD-RE. It seems that all the players recognise the BD-RE as a something different and expect to play back BD-AV files.

Has any one found a PC software player that will play BDMV files from a BD-RE? I have tried the one that came with my PC (Intervideo WinDVD BD for VAIO) and Cyberlink. These don't work because they expect BD-MV files on a BD-RE and BD-AV files on a BD-J.

There seems to be just one more step required to be able to get HDV footage onto a writable BD that will play in a fashion similar to a DVD.

[Don Blish]

Good work, I'm glad you were able to make a navigable menu. As to why they play on a player and not PCsoftware, I don't think it is the media (BD-ROM/RE/R) so much the software being unwilling to do a BDMV project that does not have the rights-management folders. However, If your Roxio project pases muster with the BluRay Association, I'm certain that the software will be updated.

Now some questions:
1) What settop player did you test successfully on (Samsung, Sony, Panasonic or Phillips)?
2) What did you "feed" DVDit? A full res CineformHD .avi or an already encoded .m2t, (or a .m2t RMux_TSed file in "elementary" .mpg format).
3) Will DVDit allow you to make a menu from scratch in Photoshop or must you use one of their "templates"?

[kentfry]

The BD-RE played was a Panasonic player presently available in Australia only as a demo machine, not in the Sony (firmware to come in 2007) or a Samsung player. I tried each of the players in various electronics shops.
I fed DVDit Pro HD a Cineform HD.avi. I previously tried a mpeg file generated by Adobe Media Encoder in Premiere Pro 2, and it didn't work. I assume that it was not blu-ray compliant, but don't know why.
Menus can be made from scratch using photoshop, according to the help file. However, I used my own background (a .jpg) and dragged and dropped chapter points on it to make buttons. I also adjusted a template and both approaches worked.
I hope the process continues to unravel. I have many hours of HDV (mostly waiting on disk) that I need to get onto blu-ray, but am still worried about the last (I hope) software piece to fall in place.

[Don Blish]

As mentioned in other posts, I was able to get Cyberlink PowerProducer for BR to accept my encoded .m2t files after having run them through ReMux_TS to break back to elementary .mpg files. Needless to say, I archive the compact .m2t files on my computer. If future software demands .avi files I'll use Cineform to expand back to that format.

[EKIM]

Hi Don, have you been able to capture direct to bluray format (to your hard drive) I cannot seem to do it.


Mike

[Don Blish]

Of course I can capture in PremierePro+CineformAspect to make a Cineform .avi. When I tried to capture using the same camera and firewire connection in Cyberlink PowerProducer for Blu-Ray, it crashed the entire operating system (uptodate XPProfSP2). I've reported that to Cyberlink and gotten no resolution. It is not important to me as I feel ALL raw footage should bed edited, color balanced and audio adjusted. THATS my pleasure.

[Ollie W. Holmes]

Originally Posted by kentfry

The BD-RE played was a Panasonic player presently available in Australia only as a demo machine, not in the Sony (firmware to come in 2007) or a Samsung player.

This sounds like encouraging news. We are at the dawn of a new technology (as young as a toddler). I was hoping that Pioneer would be able to read BD-R discs as well, since I would assume that the demo disk they supply to US retailers was not glass-mastered. Should I get a Sony or Plextor blu-ray writer? I'm anxious to try some experiments in 2007.

[pixel]

Originally Posted by Ollie W. Holmes

This sounds like encouraging news. We are at the dawn of a new technology (as young as a toddler). I was hoping that Pioneer would be able to read BD-R discs as well, since I would assume that the demo disk they supply to US retailers was not glass-mastered. Should I get a Sony or Plextor blu-ray writer? I'm anxious to try some experiments in 2007.

I have a Sony Blu-ray player and also a Panasonic DMP-BD10. I have used DVDit-Pro HD to author a BD/R or BD/RE disc and is works fine in the Panasonic player.

->kentry: I have used Adobe Premiere Pro 2 and the Adobe Media Enocder for exporting and it works fine without reencoding in DVDit... Have you used the template 1080 60i 15 Mb... or 1080 50i for PAL? You can even set the video encoding rate the as you like...

[Digital Filmmaker]

I believe that the only players that are capable of playing back BD-R & RW discs are the Panasonic and Pioneer. The Sony player (including PS3) and Samsung do not currently support playback of anything other than commercial BD discs, according to their specs. The Panasonic winning out at being able to read the most disc formats.

I own a Panasonic HVX-200 100 megabit-recording DVC ProHD camera and have produced a lot of HD material that I am anxious to write to Blu-ray discs. It looks as if the solutions are now slowly starting to become available.

DFM

[EKIM]

Thanks pixel, I tried it (Adobe media encoder) and it worked perfectly!


Thanks
mIKE

[kentfry]

Pixel: I took the route you suggest, and failed. DVDit decided that the 1080 50i file was not right and converted the audio. It then attempted to convert the video, but failed part way through. The system seems to have some kind of 4Gb limit on re-encoding, even though I have exclusively NTFS disks. The error code is -10003. I am writing to Roxio to see if they can help.

[phloyd]

Can people who have been successful with the DVDit HD please post which version/build they are using? Should be in the 'About' dialog box I believe...

Thanks!