“Format War”: Fact Or Fiction…? - Blu-ray Forum

Jeff® · 12-21-2006, 08:55 AM

"FORMAT WAR": FACT OR FICTION...?

Just when you thought everyone was settling down for the holidays — the season of "Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Men" — we're bombarded with industry media coverage about "the format war."

Lately it seems like the coverage is reaching a fever pitch with headlines declaring an early victory for either Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD.

In reality, many insiders say there's so much industry support for Blu-ray that discussion about a "format war" will seem irrelevant in the long run.

Blu-ray Disc has the support of nearly every major consumer electronics company, leading computing companies and, as Andy notes below, just about every major studio in Hollywood.

In addition, most experts agree that Blu-ray has the technical advantage (mainly due to its greater capacity for movies, games and other content as well as for data storage and recording).

Given the limitations of the other format — far fewer studios cranking out movies, far fewer manufacturers selling products, far less capacity overall — the whole notion of a "format war" does seem overblown.

In any case, snappy headlines aside, it's still early in the game. Blu-ray Disc hardware has only just hit the shelves, studios are just starting to distribute content and consumers are just beginning to experience what full 1080p Blu-ray high-definition picture quality looks like.

Perhaps the real battle ahead is less of a "format war" and more about helping people understand what the transition to high-definition is all about.

Marty Gordon
Vice President, Philips Hollywood office

http://blogs.zdnet.com/blu-ray/

hyperdine · 12-21-2006, 01:59 PM

Well said.

I think the HD-DVD camp really wants it to look like a format war because then it puts them on equal footing with Blu-Ray. If you say HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray, people make the assumption that it's an apples-to-apples comparison. True, it's the only other HD optical format out there in the market today, but when you do a side-by-side comparison, it's such a lopsided advantage for Blu-Ray it almost seems silly to try and compare the two.

Additionally, the few advantages HD-DVD had (perceived or otherwise) are slipping away very quickly...

PQ- Yes, HD-DVD had the PQ advantage early on. However, this was primarily due to 2 key issues that have since been resolved:

1) The Samsung Noise Reduction problem - resolved
2) The software didn't do a good job of showcasing the format - resolved

With that said, had those same titles been released on HD-DVD they would have looked the same. So this was less of a Blu-Ray issue and more of an issue with the titles themselves.

Price- In terms of hardware (specifically, standalone players) HD-DVD still has the price advantage. The price of entry is simply lower than that of Blu-Ray. But when you throw in the PS3 and the HD-DVD add-on into the mix, this changes the landscape quite a bit. Also, the fact that Blu-Ray has more players in the market from different manufacturers will drive down prices. It's just simple economics. Don't be surprised if we see a $500 (or less) BD player unveiled at CES 2007.

The question then becomes, what do you get for your money, i.e. value. Sure, Blu-Ray hardware (at this point in time) is generally more expensive. Well, a Lexus RX 330 is more expensive than a Honda Element. "But they're not even in the same class", one could say...and they would be right. That's my point. HD-DVD is just not in the same class as Blu-Ray.

So is there really a format war going on here? Maybe we're doing ourselves a disservice by comparing the two and actually perpetuating the war. I tend to agree with the quotes from the OP. HD-DVD is a distraction at best. A stubbed toe on Blu-Ray's run for the finish line.

Deane Johnson · 12-21-2006, 02:24 PM

It seems to me that the Blu-Ray hardware and studio support alone would make it virtually impossible for HD-DVD to emerge the winner.

Look for HD-DVD to make some announcements at CES next month that will get the HD-DVD camp all excited, but I predict the Blu-Ray announcements will be at least as motivating.

dvdirv · 12-23-2006, 11:33 PM

I voted with my dollars on a Blu-Ray player basically because most of the major studios supported the format.

As a Sony rep told me, Sony did not want a repeat of the Beta-VHS war. Instead they lined up their supporters BEFORE introduction of their players.

That made sense to me!

SpdDmon · 12-24-2006, 06:17 AM

theres one more thing to consider in this so called "format war" The sucsesor to DVD will not only be chosen not only in its capabilities as a home entettainment format but also for the computer. Its has to be integrated into the computer electronics format also ( data ). we saw the trend with CD / DVD. had computers been integral to the industry in the mid, late 80s? ( not sure when ) VHS or Betamax would have been judged the same way.

right now bluray has all the advantages as a data storage device than HD DVD, (that im aware of )

Does anyone agree on this also?

Ascended_Saiyan · 12-24-2006, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpdDmon

theres one more thing to consider in this so called "format war" The sucsesor to DVD will not only be chosen not only in its capabilities as a home entettainment format but also for the computer. Its has to be integrated into the computer electronics format also ( data ). we saw the trend with CD / DVD. had computers been integral to the industry in the mid, late 80s? ( not sure when ) VHS or Betamax would have been judged the same way.

right now bluray has all the advantages as a data storage device than HD DVD, (that im aware of )

Does anyone agree on this also?

Without question.

theknub · 12-24-2006, 06:28 AM

really, this is why i think BR will win in the end. even if everything else was exactly the same (which it isn't), the extra 20 gigs (of DL) storage will win it.

Banitsa · 12-24-2006, 08:32 AM

Unfortunatly specs are not everything. Availability is what will win the race, and at the moment there isn't much to choose from in my local market.

I have the option of 1 BD player (Samsung) or 2 HD-DVD players (Both Toshiba) thats it. IF HD-DVD gets a lot of devices to market first they will win. Personally I want BD to win, but there must be players available.

Spec's aside, Blu-ray sounds better than HD-DVD as a name IMHO!

Blue · 12-24-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banitsa

Unfortunatly specs are not everything. Availability is what will win the race, and at the moment there isn't much to choose from in my local market.

I have the option of 1 BD player (Samsung) or 2 HD-DVD players (Both Toshiba) thats it. IF HD-DVD gets a lot of devices to market first they will win. Personally I want BD to win, but there must be players available.

Spec's aside, Blu-ray sounds better than HD-DVD as a name IMHO!

I don't know where you live but in the US
BD Panasonic, Sony, Samsung (availability unknown) Pioneer (availability unknown) Philips (unkown availability) and the PS3.
HD-DVD 2 players Toshiba (well unlimited, just make up a logo and stick it on one) XBOX 360 add on drive (optional extra). There are a few more players announced from Toshiba, but they will replace the 2 that are out at the moment.

BD PC Burners Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony, Benq (unsure of availability) with others in the pipeline

HD-DVD Toshiba

In Oz where I live
BD Panasonic and Samsung
HD-DVD Nothing at all (yet) appart from in a Toshiba laptop - no movies yet.

Are you expecting any other brands for HD-DVD (apart from make up a logo and stick it on a Toshiba). As far as I'm aware there no other companies making announcements or producing HD-DVD (RCA is rebadging Toshiba's) There are plenty of other companies about to unleash Blu Ray. In a few weeks we should get a look at who is up to what and time frames. Now the standards are settled and a few companies have had a bit of practice, I would expect the release dates will be a little less rubbery than they have in the past, especially from companies that already have a player out.

eric0819 · 12-24-2006, 03:11 PM

Read this

http://blogs.business2.com/utilitybe..._vs_blura.html

eric0819 · 12-24-2006, 03:15 PM

A recent article explained that companies that supported Blu-Ray are now waivering. Hewl;ett Packard was first and is releasing a $100 HD DVD add on option for their computers. Next will be movie studios that have agreed to release only on Blu-Ray for an undisclosed time period. They never agreed to never release on HD DVD, there is no contract.

Maximus · 12-24-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric0819

A recent article explained that companies that supported Blu-Ray are now waivering. Hewl;ett Packard was first and is releasing a $100 HD DVD add on option for their computers. Next will be movie studios that have agreed to release only on Blu-Ray for an undisclosed time period. They never agreed to never release on HD DVD, there is no contract.

Care to link? Thought not, I doubt the article actually exists.

This is the stupidest post I have ever seen, especially since Disney and Fox have gone on-record to say they have 'no plans to release on HD DVD' see DigitalBits.

JTK · 12-24-2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Care to link? Thought not, I doubt the article actually exists.

This is the stupidest post I have ever seen, especially since Disney and Fox have gone on-record to say they have 'no plans to release on HD DVD' see DigitalBits.

I agree. Looks like the mods did as well.

theknub · 12-24-2006, 03:44 PM

since we don't know when we was suspended, i can't tell if i called him out or if we was suspended first. either way, no more rhetoric from him.

hyperdine · 12-24-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric0819

A recent article explained that companies that supported Blu-Ray are now waivering. Hewl;ett Packard was first and is releasing a $100 HD DVD add on option for their computers. Next will be movie studios that have agreed to release only on Blu-Ray for an undisclosed time period. They never agreed to never release on HD DVD, there is no contract.

Where's the link to this article? What's the source. This appears to be retread of the same rumor and speculation we've heard since June. Here's a quote from someone (Bill Hunt of thedigitalbits) who has actually spoken directly with the studios. This was as of Dec 11th.

Quote:

"I've just spoken today with Eric Maehara, VP of Communications for Buena Vista Home Entertainment. He informed me that the studio is planning to announce a MAJOR Blu-ray Disc release line-up for the first half of 2007 at CES. In addition, he reiterated to me in no uncertain terms that BVHE has no plans to support HD-DVD, despite persistent online rumors to the contrary.

I've also spoken this afternoon with Steve Feldstein, Senior VP of Corporate and Marketing Communications for 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment. He likewise confirmed that Fox has no plans to support HD-DVD, and that the studio will also be announcing additional Blu-ray Disc titles at CES."

Hadn't heard of the HP $100 drive. That price point seems pretty unlikely given the cost of manufacturing drives with blue laser diodes.

hyperdine · 12-24-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknub

since we don't know when we was suspended, i can't tell if i called him out or if we was suspended first. either way, no more rhetoric from him.

Hats off to the mods. Nice job.

dobyblue · 12-24-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric0819

ANext will be movie studios that have agreed to release only on Blu-Ray for an undisclosed time period.

Dream on Trolly McTrollerson.

Paper · 12-25-2006, 08:11 PM

I'd say it is very dependant on 3 things:
1. Price
2. Film availability
3. How much people care about hi def TV

The average Joe won't care about or understand disk capacity, high definition modes, ACCS protection, interactive menus or the film production market. The film production market doesn't care about either format and will go with the one that sells the best.

The very fact that this topic is here shows that there is a war

Jeff® · 12-26-2006, 12:00 AM

http://blogs.zdnet.com/blu-ray/

A format blog for Blu-ray Disc
discussion and analysis

December 23, 2006
Santa Claus Goes Blu …!

Posted by martygordon @ 2:33 pm

We already knew Blu-ray had impressive industry support but the format got a surprising new endorsement in Hollywood this holiday season as none other than Santa Claus made the rounds on Sunset Strip promoting the availability of Playstation 3. As this photo suggests, Santa evidently favors the cross-platform capabilities and clear capacity advantage of Blu-ray Disc. All kidding aside, many experts agree that Playstation 3 will create a considerable installed base for Blu-ray Disc very quickly. Recent industry reports suggest that already in November nearly 200,000 households bought the first Playstation 3 units to hit the shelves in the U.S. Sony announced plans to ship one million Playstation 3 consoles in the U.S. by the end of the year. Since every Playstation 3 is a Blu-ray Disc player, numbers like this create a big boost for the Blu-ray Disc format. It's worth noting that in the early days of DVD, before Playstation 2 launched, analysts questioned whether DVD would ever take off. In 2000, when the Playstation 2 was introduced, worldwide DVD shipments increased by 121 percent to 13.5 million. In 2001, we saw an additional increase of shipments to 32.9 million. That same year, DVD software sales increased by more than 100% to 625 million. Granted, other factors also contributed greatly to the growth of DVD — namely the cross-industry support — but, unlike HD DVD, Blu-ray enjoys similar support across virtually the entire Consumer Electronics industry and almost every major Hollywood studio. I guess that's why Santa climbed aboard our sleigh!

Chris Beveridge · 12-26-2006, 06:29 PM

I'm just glad the format war is over for me. I haven't powered my HD-A1 on since late August.

12-21-2006, 08:55 AM	#1
Jeff® Active Member Member since:Sep 2006	“Format War”: Fact Or Fiction…? "FORMAT WAR": FACT OR FICTION...? Just when you thought everyone was settling down for the holidays — the season of "Peace on Earth and Goodwill to Men" — we're bombarded with industry media coverage about "the format war." Lately it seems like the coverage is reaching a fever pitch with headlines declaring an early victory for either Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD. In reality, many insiders say there's so much industry support for Blu-ray that discussion about a "format war" will seem irrelevant in the long run. Blu-ray Disc has the support of nearly every major consumer electronics company, leading computing companies and, as Andy notes below, just about every major studio in Hollywood. In addition, most experts agree that Blu-ray has the technical advantage (mainly due to its greater capacity for movies, games and other content as well as for data storage and recording). Given the limitations of the other format — far fewer studios cranking out movies, far fewer manufacturers selling products, far less capacity overall — the whole notion of a "format war" does seem overblown. In any case, snappy headlines aside, it's still early in the game. Blu-ray Disc hardware has only just hit the shelves, studios are just starting to distribute content and consumers are just beginning to experience what full 1080p Blu-ray high-definition picture quality looks like. Perhaps the real battle ahead is less of a "format war" and more about helping people understand what the transition to high-definition is all about. Marty Gordon Vice President, Philips Hollywood office http://blogs.zdnet.com/blu-ray/

12-24-2006, 03:11 PM	#10
eric0819 Junior Member Member since:Dec 2006	Here is a recent article on the war between Sony and Toshiba Read this http://blogs.business2.com/utilitybe..._vs_blura.html

12-24-2006, 03:15 PM	#11
eric0819 Junior Member Member since:Dec 2006	Hewlett Packard jumping ship along with Disney and Lionsgate A recent article explained that companies that supported Blu-Ray are now waivering. Hewl;ett Packard was first and is releasing a $100 HD DVD add on option for their computers. Next will be movie studios that have agreed to release only on Blu-Ray for an undisclosed time period. They never agreed to never release on HD DVD, there is no contract.

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12-21-2006, 01:59 PM	#2
hyperdine Senior Member Member since:Sep 2006	Well said. I think the HD-DVD camp really wants it to look like a format war because then it puts them on equal footing with Blu-Ray. If you say HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray, people make the assumption that it's an apples-to-apples comparison. True, it's the only other HD optical format out there in the market today, but when you do a side-by-side comparison, it's such a lopsided advantage for Blu-Ray it almost seems silly to try and compare the two. Additionally, the few advantages HD-DVD had (perceived or otherwise) are slipping away very quickly... PQ- Yes, HD-DVD had the PQ advantage early on. However, this was primarily due to 2 key issues that have since been resolved: 1) The Samsung Noise Reduction problem - resolved 2) The software didn't do a good job of showcasing the format - resolved With that said, had those same titles been released on HD-DVD they would have looked the same. So this was less of a Blu-Ray issue and more of an issue with the titles themselves. Price- In terms of hardware (specifically, standalone players) HD-DVD still has the price advantage. The price of entry is simply lower than that of Blu-Ray. But when you throw in the PS3 and the HD-DVD add-on into the mix, this changes the landscape quite a bit. Also, the fact that Blu-Ray has more players in the market from different manufacturers will drive down prices. It's just simple economics. Don't be surprised if we see a $500 (or less) BD player unveiled at CES 2007. The question then becomes, what do you get for your money, i.e. value. Sure, Blu-Ray hardware (at this point in time) is generally more expensive. Well, a Lexus RX 330 is more expensive than a Honda Element. "But they're not even in the same class", one could say...and they would be right. That's my point. HD-DVD is just not in the same class as Blu-Ray. So is there really a format war going on here? Maybe we're doing ourselves a disservice by comparing the two and actually perpetuating the war. I tend to agree with the quotes from the OP. HD-DVD is a distraction at best. A stubbed toe on Blu-Ray's run for the finish line.

12-21-2006, 02:24 PM	#3
Deane Johnson Active Member Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Omaha, NE	It seems to me that the Blu-Ray hardware and studio support alone would make it virtually impossible for HD-DVD to emerge the winner. Look for HD-DVD to make some announcements at CES next month that will get the HD-DVD camp all excited, but I predict the Blu-Ray announcements will be at least as motivating.

12-23-2006, 11:33 PM	#4
dvdirv Expert Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Atlanta, GA	I voted with my dollars on a Blu-Ray player basically because most of the major studios supported the format. As a Sony rep told me, Sony did not want a repeat of the Beta-VHS war. Instead they lined up their supporters BEFORE introduction of their players. That made sense to me!

12-24-2006, 06:17 AM	#5
SpdDmon Member Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Inside my TV	theres one more thing to consider in this so called "format war" The sucsesor to DVD will not only be chosen not only in its capabilities as a home entettainment format but also for the computer. Its has to be integrated into the computer electronics format also ( data ). we saw the trend with CD / DVD. had computers been integral to the industry in the mid, late 80s? ( not sure when ) VHS or Betamax would have been judged the same way. right now bluray has all the advantages as a data storage device than HD DVD, (that im aware of ) Does anyone agree on this also?

12-24-2006, 06:28 AM	#7
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	really, this is why i think BR will win in the end. even if everything else was exactly the same (which it isn't), the extra 20 gigs (of DL) storage will win it.

12-24-2006, 08:32 AM	#8
Banitsa New Member Member since:Dec 2006	Unfortunatly specs are not everything. Availability is what will win the race, and at the moment there isn't much to choose from in my local market. I have the option of 1 BD player (Samsung) or 2 HD-DVD players (Both Toshiba) thats it. IF HD-DVD gets a lot of devices to market first they will win. Personally I want BD to win, but there must be players available. Spec's aside, Blu-ray sounds better than HD-DVD as a name IMHO!

12-24-2006, 03:44 PM	#14
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	since we don't know when we was suspended, i can't tell if i called him out or if we was suspended first. either way, no more rhetoric from him.

12-25-2006, 08:11 PM	#18
Paper Junior Member Member since:Oct 2006	I'd say it is very dependant on 3 things: 1. Price 2. Film availability 3. How much people care about hi def TV The average Joe won't care about or understand disk capacity, high definition modes, ACCS protection, interactive menus or the film production market. The film production market doesn't care about either format and will go with the one that sells the best. The very fact that this topic is here shows that there is a war

12-26-2006, 12:00 AM	#19
Jeff® Active Member Member since:Sep 2006	http://blogs.zdnet.com/blu-ray/ A format blog for Blu-ray Disc discussion and analysis December 23, 2006 Santa Claus Goes Blu …! Posted by martygordon @ 2:33 pm We already knew Blu-ray had impressive industry support but the format got a surprising new endorsement in Hollywood this holiday season as none other than Santa Claus made the rounds on Sunset Strip promoting the availability of Playstation 3. As this photo suggests, Santa evidently favors the cross-platform capabilities and clear capacity advantage of Blu-ray Disc. All kidding aside, many experts agree that Playstation 3 will create a considerable installed base for Blu-ray Disc very quickly. Recent industry reports suggest that already in November nearly 200,000 households bought the first Playstation 3 units to hit the shelves in the U.S. Sony announced plans to ship one million Playstation 3 consoles in the U.S. by the end of the year. Since every Playstation 3 is a Blu-ray Disc player, numbers like this create a big boost for the Blu-ray Disc format. It's worth noting that in the early days of DVD, before Playstation 2 launched, analysts questioned whether DVD would ever take off. In 2000, when the Playstation 2 was introduced, worldwide DVD shipments increased by 121 percent to 13.5 million. In 2001, we saw an additional increase of shipments to 32.9 million. That same year, DVD software sales increased by more than 100% to 625 million. Granted, other factors also contributed greatly to the growth of DVD — namely the cross-industry support — but, unlike HD DVD, Blu-ray enjoys similar support across virtually the entire Consumer Electronics industry and almost every major Hollywood studio. I guess that's why Santa climbed aboard our sleigh!

12-26-2006, 06:29 PM	#20
Chris Beveridge Moderator Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Hudson, MA Blu-ray reviews:3	I'm just glad the format war is over for me. I haven't powered my HD-A1 on since late August.

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