Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut (1980) - Blu-ray Forum

blurayforever143 · 03-30-2007, 09:22 PM

Superman II Blu-ray

Superman II Blu-ray Review

I realize Rocky I and II are out on Bluray, I also realize Superman I and Superman II Donnor Cut are on Bluray

However, I own both the platinum box Superman set [all four movies on DVD] and the full Rocky box set [all five movies in one box]

Some people I realize sell the boxsets and just get the two blurays because they don't like Rocky past II, and I know MOST people hate Superman III and IV

Well, I am the complete opposite, I pretty much love all four supermans and all four rocky [I could live without 5] so I am pretty worried about getting rid of my boxsets

1. Are there any chances of Rocky III and IV coming out on Blu Ray? And on top of that, how do Rocky I and II perform on blu-ray? The transfers worth it?

2. Any chance of Superman II coming out on Blu Ray, NOT the "Richard Donnor" cut? I have no idea who Richard Donnor even is and all I know is I saw the Superman II on my DVD about 1000 times through out my childhood and that's the version I want to see.

But mostly, should I just go ahead and sell the boxsets, get the current Blu Rays for Rocky and Supes, knowing that a complete boxset is surely to come out in the next two years?

Solar Driftwood · 03-31-2007, 07:57 AM

I'd be astounded if the Blu-ray releases of Rocky and Rocky Balboa were not followed up with HD releases of the third, fourth and fifth movies.

Knowing how difficult it was until recently to get the original theatrical cuts of the Star Wars and Blues Brothers films on DVD, I'd hold on to your Superman II DVD until there's news of a BD release of the original cut.

Knight-Errant · 03-31-2007, 03:51 PM

I think they'll all come out.

The Superman boxset is supposed to be coming out on BD according to hi-def digest.

Deciazulado · 03-31-2007, 04:16 PM

hdforever126, i think someone is confusing Blu titles. Balboa with Rocky II as Rocky II is not out on BD yet

,

Quote:

Originally Posted by blurayforever143

Any chance of Superman II coming out on Blu Ray, NOT the "Richard Donnor" cut? I have no idea who Richard Donnor even is and all I know is I saw the Superman II on my DVD about 1000 times through out my childhood and that's the version I want to see.

Richard DonnEr is the director of Superman The Movie, and Superman The Adventure Continues. During production of Superman The Adventure Continues, after 80% of the movie was done or so, Donner was replaced by Richard Lester (the director of A Hard Day's Night, Help!, etc) and some changes were made and the movie was turned into Superman II.

The Blu-ray has the best approximation of the original Donner version they could do 25 years later.

aqupunk · 06-22-2007, 09:00 PM

Anyone know if Superman 2 is gonna be released od bd? Not the Doneer cut either, that one wasn't as good in my opinion.

MasterXeus · 06-22-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aqupunk

Anyone know if Superman 2 is gonna be released od bd? Not the Doneer cut either, that one wasn't as good in my opinion.

That is a good question. I agree, I didn't care for Donner cut either.

The Don · 06-22-2007, 09:43 PM

I liked the donner cut because it was completely different from what I've seen before from the film and at times it felt like a ...unique perspective..

BStecke · 06-22-2007, 10:01 PM

I loved the Donner cut, but at the same time it made me kind of sad that we'll never truly see the movie that Donner wanted to make. I absolutely despise Richard Lester's version, and will probably never watch it again. I actually grew up on an amalgam of the Donner and Lester cut that they showed on ABC that I had recorded on vhs. I actually had never seen the theatrical version until 01 when I got the original Supes box set, and it was a crushing moment for me, because it's an absolutely terrible film for someone who has been a lifelong Superman fan. The made up powers and cheesy jokes and dialogue were a total departure from the world Donner built with the first. Just my two cents, I had to chime in as the whole history of Richard Donner and the Superman films is of great interest to me, and I love Superman. It wouldn't surprise me if they did a blu ray release of the ultimate box set that came out last year, as that drastically exceeded sales expectations to the point that they had to do more production runs than originally planned just to meet the initial demand.

WickyWoo · 06-23-2007, 04:44 AM

The theatrical of Superman 2 should be burned. It's not what was supposed to be and was taken over by Lester simply so the crooked Salkinds would pay him for the other movies he made for them.

He has no passion for Superman, he's a mechanic there for a paycheck

The Donner cut is the only one that should ever be viewed

That being said, they will undoubtedly reissue them at some point in the future with all the extra stuff and the other movies

And only Rocky and Rocky Balboa are out on BD, not 2-5.

Dark_Prince · 06-23-2007, 07:57 AM

I really couldn't see the point of just releasing the Donner cut and ignoring the theatrical version. I wish Donner had been able to complete the movie, but put simply, the Donner cut doesn't work now. The biggest flaw is the ending - the movie simply has no ending, and it's ridiculous that Warner seems to be favouring what's essentially a work in progress print of an unfinished film (which can never be completed satisfactorily), over the final, completed theatrical release - regardless of what the merits of the theatrical version may or may not be. Couldn't really see myself purchasing the Donner cut on Blu Ray unless it's as part of a box set.

u_nick · 06-23-2007, 11:33 AM

I love both cuts.

Loved the Donner cut on BRD, and hope to one day see the Lester cut on BRD.

CptGreedle · 07-23-2007, 07:04 PM

I bought Superman and Superman II on BD the other day, and even though I wasn't expecting a much better image since it's a fairly dated film, I was hoping it would look better than it did.
I wasn't that happy with the PQ of them, it wasn't bad, just not good. I mean it was about what I remembered seeing on TV.
But the thing that really gets me is Superman II. The only copy I saw was a recut, and BOY was it recut.
The original director TOTALLY messed up the movie by recutting it. I think it's cool to see some of the scenes that were missing, but I HATED the result. I mean, he had to do the same stupid deus ex machina to end the story that he did in the first movie!

IT SUCKS!

Is there any hope of getting the original cut on BD? I would buy it in a heartbeat.

u_nick · 07-23-2007, 07:07 PM

I enjoyed both cuts, the theatrical cut, as well as the BD Richard Donner cut, as the film was originally meant to be seen. I thought the PQ was amazing, especially for a film of that time. Loads better than my DVD copy in any case.

I already own the Donner cut, but would also buy the theatrical cut, as I love both movies.

WickyWoo · 07-23-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

But the thing that really gets me is Superman II. The only copy I saw was a recut, and BOY was it recut.
The original director TOTALLY messed up the movie by recutting it. I

He's the director of the film. He can't mess it up. It's his movie, and if he approves the cut, then it's the way it's meant to be

You mean "Richard Lester messed up Richard Donner's movie, but I liked the result better"

BStecke · 07-23-2007, 07:31 PM

I find it hard to see how Superman could be considered a poor quality transfer. Even compared to the standard DVD, the blu ray is significantly better. I think your expectations may be a bit high for a film approaching its 30th anniversary. It's a tad soft, but it was also shot that way.

I honestly don't understand how anyone prefers the theatrical cut of Superman 2, as it takes some SERIOUS liberties with the character and mixes it with cheesy humor and ridiclous dialog. I'd much rather have the same ending to both films (the reversal of time was originally planned as the original ending of Superman 2 anyway) than the ridiculous "kiss that erases all memory of past events." Mix that with the "peel a cellophane symbol off his chest and trap someone in it," power that Superman mysteriously gained, and it's pretty much a road to suicide for any fan of the character. I'll take second rate special effects and screen test footage anyday over that garbage.

CptGreedle · 07-23-2007, 07:42 PM

Alright, I guess the PQ is better than I lead on. The problem I have is really that, with the film being so old, you can see the age too well. Plus the recut has a lot of new scenes that weren't properly cared for and some were even taken from (what was it called...) practice shots (?). (The scenes were not filmed for the movie and were only for rehearsal or something like that).
So it was inconsistent throughout.
As for the film contents, I grew up watching the original, and it had it's silliness and everything, but it was definitely a different movie than the first and the re-cut. With putting the time reversal thing back in it, it is repeating what they did put in the first movie, and that really annoyed me. It's like he can't come up with something original. If he runs into trouble, just go back in time and do it over! GAH!
Also with the time travel thing, I assume people should have forgotten about everything that happened since before he turned himself mortal, then why did the guy in the hot dog joint recognize him and all that? And why did he go back there anyways?
Well like I said, it is a different movie, and I would really much rather have the original cut since I grew up watching it.

So any hope of seeing the original?

dialog_gvf · 07-23-2007, 08:04 PM

I was absolutely shocked that so much Brando had been just tossed away by Lester.

It couldn't be perfect without filming some new material. But, the whole point was to show an alternative that would never be fully realized, but clearly was far superior.

I'm always amazed when the studio allows such a thing. Basically, it's an admission they screwed up the first time and should have let the director do his vision.

Look at Payback. Mel still things the original was better, but wow what a difference!!! I disagree with Mel. The dark version was the anti-establishment movie desperately needed at that time.

Studio: You killed X, Y and Z. My god man, you killed Z! That has to change.
Director: OK, how about 2 out of 3?

WickyWoo · 07-23-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

I was absolutely shocked that so much Brando had been just tossed away by Lester

That wasn't his choice. The Salkinds would have to pay Brando something like $3 million dollars to use that footage in Superman 2. So when they realized they could just reshoot it with other people for a few hundred thousand they went with it.

Bryan Singer, having respect for the original, and Brando's kids needing smack money, bought the rights from the estate for Returns, and therefore they were able to put them in the donner cut.

Lester didn't care enough to put the goofy stuff in there. IF you watch the extras on SUperman 1, you'll see that the Salkinds were always thinking Adam West, and were pissed Donner gave them a good movie instead.

Quote:

I'm always amazed when the studio allows such a thing. Basically, it's an admission they screwed up the first time and should have let the director do his vision

Warner didn't admit anything. It's all the Salkinds. They screwed up, used a guy that couldn't give two craps about Superman just to squeeze as much money as possible. So far as I know, WB bought out virtually all the Salkinds had left a few years ago.

BStecke · 07-23-2007, 11:06 PM

I think you're missing the big idea . . . Superman The Movie was originally going to end with the missle that Supes hurled into space releasing the three criminals, which is what we see at the beginning of the RD cut. The time travel ending was originally slated for the ending of Superman 2, but at the time of filming, they didn't have an ending for Superman 1, and they weren't 100% the sequel would be released, so they put that ending onto Superman 1. IIRC, the plot point of Lois dying in the earthquake was added to justify this ending. So it's not that they couldn't come up with an original ending . . . that WAS the original ending, as Superman 1 didn't really have a traditional ending, as 1 and 2 should have been one big movie.

Also . . . the guy in the burger joint doesn't necessarily recognize him. Clark knows him, obviously, but the guy is just a tool, and he's a tool to anybody who says anything to him, hence the conversation. So . . . while it does seem like he recognizes Clark, if you rewatch it, he doesn't really HAVE to for it to make sense. He went back because he wanted to teach the guy a lesson. Which, yes, it's against Superman's nature, however he's not just doing it as revenge, as the guy's a tool to everybody.

So . . . I don't know if this will enhance your viewing pleasure of the RD cut, but the version everybody's used to is basically a hastily cut redo of a much better film. No, it's not perfect because they couldn't go back and reshoot the stuff Lester did that they couldn't replace, but to me, it's a LOT closer to a worthy follow-up for the original. It's a just a shame we couldn't see the true Donner version of Superman 2.

WickyWoo · 07-23-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Also . . . the guy in the burger joint doesn't necessarily recognize him. Clark knows him, obviously, but the guy is just a tool, and he's a tool to anybody who says anything to him, hence the conversation. So . . . while it does seem like he recognizes Clark, if you rewatch it, he doesn't really HAVE to for it to make sense. He went back because he wanted to teach the guy a lesson. Which, yes, it's against Superman's nature, however he's not just doing it as revenge, as the guy's a tool to everybody.

Actually, it is a continuity error, because when he sees clark come in he says something like "come on, I just had this fixed!"

03-30-2007, 09:22 PM	#1
blurayforever143 Active Member Member since:Mar 2007 Trading Score:6	Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut (1980) Superman II Blu-ray Superman II Blu-ray Review I realize Rocky I and II are out on Bluray, I also realize Superman I and Superman II Donnor Cut are on Bluray However, I own both the platinum box Superman set [all four movies on DVD] and the full Rocky box set [all five movies in one box] Some people I realize sell the boxsets and just get the two blurays because they don't like Rocky past II, and I know MOST people hate Superman III and IV Well, I am the complete opposite, I pretty much love all four supermans and all four rocky [I could live without 5] so I am pretty worried about getting rid of my boxsets 1. Are there any chances of Rocky III and IV coming out on Blu Ray? And on top of that, how do Rocky I and II perform on blu-ray? The transfers worth it? 2. Any chance of Superman II coming out on Blu Ray, NOT the "Richard Donnor" cut? I have no idea who Richard Donnor even is and all I know is I saw the Superman II on my DVD about 1000 times through out my childhood and that's the version I want to see. But mostly, should I just go ahead and sell the boxsets, get the current Blu Rays for Rocky and Supes, knowing that a complete boxset is surely to come out in the next two years? Last edited by Scottie; 07-23-2017 at 02:19 PM.

06-22-2007, 09:00 PM	#5
aqupunk Expert Member Member since:Jun 2007 Home Theater Gallery:2 4K collection:54 Blu-ray collection:246 Trading Score:1	Superman 2 not Donner cut? Anyone know if Superman 2 is gonna be released od bd? Not the Doneer cut either, that one wasn't as good in my opinion.

07-23-2007, 07:04 PM	#12
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Superman II on BD I bought Superman and Superman II on BD the other day, and even though I wasn't expecting a much better image since it's a fairly dated film, I was hoping it would look better than it did. I wasn't that happy with the PQ of them, it wasn't bad, just not good. I mean it was about what I remembered seeing on TV. But the thing that really gets me is Superman II. The only copy I saw was a recut, and BOY was it recut. The original director TOTALLY messed up the movie by recutting it. I think it's cool to see some of the scenes that were missing, but I HATED the result. I mean, he had to do the same stupid deus ex machina to end the story that he did in the first movie! IT SUCKS! Is there any hope of getting the original cut on BD? I would buy it in a heartbeat.

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03-31-2007, 07:57 AM	#2
Solar Driftwood Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Middlesex	I'd be astounded if the Blu-ray releases of Rocky and Rocky Balboa were not followed up with HD releases of the third, fourth and fifth movies. Knowing how difficult it was until recently to get the original theatrical cuts of the Star Wars and Blues Brothers films on DVD, I'd hold on to your Superman II DVD until there's news of a BD release of the original cut.

03-31-2007, 03:51 PM	#3
Knight-Errant Power Member Member since:Aug 2005 Location:Sheffield, UK	I think they'll all come out. The Superman boxset is supposed to be coming out on BD according to hi-def digest.

06-22-2007, 09:43 PM	#7
The Don Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Apr 2006 Blu-ray reviews:12 Trading Score:2	I liked the donner cut because it was completely different from what I've seen before from the film and at times it felt like a ...unique perspective..

06-22-2007, 10:01 PM	#8
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	I loved the Donner cut, but at the same time it made me kind of sad that we'll never truly see the movie that Donner wanted to make. I absolutely despise Richard Lester's version, and will probably never watch it again. I actually grew up on an amalgam of the Donner and Lester cut that they showed on ABC that I had recorded on vhs. I actually had never seen the theatrical version until 01 when I got the original Supes box set, and it was a crushing moment for me, because it's an absolutely terrible film for someone who has been a lifelong Superman fan. The made up powers and cheesy jokes and dialogue were a total departure from the world Donner built with the first. Just my two cents, I had to chime in as the whole history of Richard Donner and the Superman films is of great interest to me, and I love Superman. It wouldn't surprise me if they did a blu ray release of the ultimate box set that came out last year, as that drastically exceeded sales expectations to the point that they had to do more production runs than originally planned just to meet the initial demand.

06-23-2007, 04:44 AM	#9
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	The theatrical of Superman 2 should be burned. It's not what was supposed to be and was taken over by Lester simply so the crooked Salkinds would pay him for the other movies he made for them. He has no passion for Superman, he's a mechanic there for a paycheck The Donner cut is the only one that should ever be viewed That being said, they will undoubtedly reissue them at some point in the future with all the extra stuff and the other movies And only Rocky and Rocky Balboa are out on BD, not 2-5.

06-23-2007, 07:57 AM	#10
Dark_Prince Member Member since:Jun 2007	I really couldn't see the point of just releasing the Donner cut and ignoring the theatrical version. I wish Donner had been able to complete the movie, but put simply, the Donner cut doesn't work now. The biggest flaw is the ending - the movie simply has no ending, and it's ridiculous that Warner seems to be favouring what's essentially a work in progress print of an unfinished film (which can never be completed satisfactorily), over the final, completed theatrical release - regardless of what the merits of the theatrical version may or may not be. Couldn't really see myself purchasing the Donner cut on Blu Ray unless it's as part of a box set.

06-23-2007, 11:33 AM	#11
u_nick Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2007 Location:CT, US Trading Score:27	I love both cuts. Loved the Donner cut on BRD, and hope to one day see the Lester cut on BRD.

07-23-2007, 07:07 PM	#13
u_nick Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2007 Location:CT, US Trading Score:27	I enjoyed both cuts, the theatrical cut, as well as the BD Richard Donner cut, as the film was originally meant to be seen. I thought the PQ was amazing, especially for a film of that time. Loads better than my DVD copy in any case. I already own the Donner cut, but would also buy the theatrical cut, as I love both movies.

07-23-2007, 07:31 PM	#15
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	I find it hard to see how Superman could be considered a poor quality transfer. Even compared to the standard DVD, the blu ray is significantly better. I think your expectations may be a bit high for a film approaching its 30th anniversary. It's a tad soft, but it was also shot that way. I honestly don't understand how anyone prefers the theatrical cut of Superman 2, as it takes some SERIOUS liberties with the character and mixes it with cheesy humor and ridiclous dialog. I'd much rather have the same ending to both films (the reversal of time was originally planned as the original ending of Superman 2 anyway) than the ridiculous "kiss that erases all memory of past events." Mix that with the "peel a cellophane symbol off his chest and trap someone in it," power that Superman mysteriously gained, and it's pretty much a road to suicide for any fan of the character. I'll take second rate special effects and screen test footage anyday over that garbage.

07-23-2007, 07:42 PM	#16
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Alright, I guess the PQ is better than I lead on. The problem I have is really that, with the film being so old, you can see the age too well. Plus the recut has a lot of new scenes that weren't properly cared for and some were even taken from (what was it called...) practice shots (?). (The scenes were not filmed for the movie and were only for rehearsal or something like that). So it was inconsistent throughout. As for the film contents, I grew up watching the original, and it had it's silliness and everything, but it was definitely a different movie than the first and the re-cut. With putting the time reversal thing back in it, it is repeating what they did put in the first movie, and that really annoyed me. It's like he can't come up with something original. If he runs into trouble, just go back in time and do it over! GAH! Also with the time travel thing, I assume people should have forgotten about everything that happened since before he turned himself mortal, then why did the guy in the hot dog joint recognize him and all that? And why did he go back there anyways? Well like I said, it is a different movie, and I would really much rather have the original cut since I grew up watching it. So any hope of seeing the original?

07-23-2007, 08:04 PM	#17
dialog_gvf Moderator Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Toronto Blu-ray collection:320	I was absolutely shocked that so much Brando had been just tossed away by Lester. It couldn't be perfect without filming some new material. But, the whole point was to show an alternative that would never be fully realized, but clearly was far superior. I'm always amazed when the studio allows such a thing. Basically, it's an admission they screwed up the first time and should have let the director do his vision. Look at Payback. Mel still things the original was better, but wow what a difference!!! I disagree with Mel. The dark version was the anti-establishment movie desperately needed at that time. Studio: You killed X, Y and Z. My god man, you killed Z! That has to change. Director: OK, how about 2 out of 3?

07-23-2007, 11:06 PM	#19
BStecke Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jun 2007 4K collection:182 Blu-ray collection:567 DVD collection:1 Digital collection:1 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	I think you're missing the big idea . . . Superman The Movie was originally going to end with the missle that Supes hurled into space releasing the three criminals, which is what we see at the beginning of the RD cut. The time travel ending was originally slated for the ending of Superman 2, but at the time of filming, they didn't have an ending for Superman 1, and they weren't 100% the sequel would be released, so they put that ending onto Superman 1. IIRC, the plot point of Lois dying in the earthquake was added to justify this ending. So it's not that they couldn't come up with an original ending . . . that WAS the original ending, as Superman 1 didn't really have a traditional ending, as 1 and 2 should have been one big movie. Also . . . the guy in the burger joint doesn't necessarily recognize him. Clark knows him, obviously, but the guy is just a tool, and he's a tool to anybody who says anything to him, hence the conversation. So . . . while it does seem like he recognizes Clark, if you rewatch it, he doesn't really HAVE to for it to make sense. He went back because he wanted to teach the guy a lesson. Which, yes, it's against Superman's nature, however he's not just doing it as revenge, as the guy's a tool to everybody. So . . . I don't know if this will enhance your viewing pleasure of the RD cut, but the version everybody's used to is basically a hastily cut redo of a much better film. No, it's not perfect because they couldn't go back and reshoot the stuff Lester did that they couldn't replace, but to me, it's a LOT closer to a worthy follow-up for the original. It's a just a shame we couldn't see the true Donner version of Superman 2.

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