Electrical advice needed! - Blu-ray Forum

ausamerika · 05-04-2008, 10:33 PM

Hey all! I'm looking for the electricians in the group!

I'm a soldier, so I live in government housing. We've lived here for almost three years, and for those three years, we had our entertainment system plugged into what we thought was a grounded outlet (i.e., it had a third, grounding prong). Recently I purchased a power conditioner, plugged it in, and it screamed at me about the jack not being grounded. I opened the outlet, and sure enough, NO grounding wire -- not even present. I think the house was built in the 50s or earlier.

So, I call the housing company, and they send out an electrician who tells me the jack is not groundable, and replaces the three prong outlet with a two prong one (which is in line with code)... and then gives me several three-prong-to-two prong adapters... I thought that would be fine, as I was sure the outlet boxes themselves were probably grounded, and that screwing the adapter into the middle screw would ground out the jack -- no dice.

It's too late to make a long story short, so I'm asking the electricians of the group, what should my next step be?

crackinhedz · 05-04-2008, 11:34 PM

PM gearyt.

He'll know something.

ausamerika · 05-04-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

PM gearyt.

He'll know something.

As always: Thank you. You're a god.

Rob71 · 05-05-2008, 01:16 AM

Pull the coverplate off and see if there is a metal box. Your home could have gone through a renovation at some point and it could have been replaced with a plastic box. If it's plastic that's why it's not working. Also if you can get a look at it, try to get a look at the wires going into the box. Old houses sometimes use metal clad wire(BX) in which case that and your metal box would be the ground. How far is the outlet from the breaker box? If it's close by or hopefully on the same wall you could just replace the wiring.

Also something to think about, are you sure they sent you an electrician and not a handyman?

If not maybe call an electrician yourself and ask what it would cost to make the repair. They shouldn't charge you anything for the estimate.

ausamerika · 05-05-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob71

Pull the coverplate off and see if there is a metal box. Your home could have gone through a renovation at some point and it could have been replaced with a plastic box. If it's plastic that's why it's not working. Also if you can get a look at it, try to get a look at the wires going into the box. Old houses sometimes use metal clad wire(BX) in which case that and your metal box would be the ground. How far is the outlet from the breaker box? If it's close by or hopefully on the same wall you could just replace the wiring.

Also something to think about, are you sure they sent you an electrician and not a handyman?

If not maybe call an electrician yourself and ask what it would cost to make the repair. They shouldn't charge you anything for the estimate.

The box is definitely metal. The guy that came out claimed to be the only electrician employed for our 'village', and insisted that the boxes in the house were not grounded. It's really frustrating, b/c their line is that ground just isn't that important. Plus, the jack I guess used to be a 240 jack to support the old window air-conditioning units, so there's a red wire in there too.

Another question tho: there is an already-being-used grounding rod right outside the window next to my entertainment system. This may be a stretch, but can I just run a length of wire out to that grounding rod?

Rob71 · 05-05-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausamerika

The box is definitely metal. The guy that came out claimed to be the only electrician employed for our 'village', and insisted that the boxes in the house were not grounded. It's really frustrating, b/c their line is that ground just isn't that important. Plus, the jack I guess used to be a 240 jack to support the old window air-conditioning units, so there's a red wire in there too.

Another question tho: there is an already-being-used grounding rod right outside the window next to my entertainment system. This may be a stretch, but can I just run a length of wire out to that grounding rod?

Better PM gearyt about that, but that sounds like it might do the trick. Is the house on a concrete slab or above grade? Although after thinking about it for a few seconds it would be pretty simple to get a wire to the box either way. Just don't run it out the window and down the wall, inspectors would frown on that.

DiverSpear · 05-05-2008, 01:54 AM

The grounds are very important they are the safety valves for the electrical system. The 2 prong plug is one of 2 possible ways to fix the situation, the other is to instal a GFCI outlet and then label it "no equipment ground (Art. 406.3(D)(3)(c) 2005 NEC). If the box is metal it should be grounded, however since it is not, if you have metal clad wire running to the box you can ground the recept to the box. The ground rod outside the window will not work. Take the red wire and make it your ground, it will have to be permanently marked green to meet code, and attach it to the the ground screw of a 3 prong receptand the metal box use either a green ground screw or a F-clip. Then take the other end of that wire in the bkr panel and attach it to the grounding bar in the panel (color it green also).Make sure the red wire is disconnected from the bkr first.

If I was in Tx it would take me about 10 minutes to do the job. The electrician they sent out was just lazy.

ausamerika · 05-06-2008, 12:33 AM

Yeah, so unfortunately, that red wire has no continuity back to the brkr box. I'm sure it's been there for decades. It's probably broken somewhere. Any other ideas?

Perhaps at this point I should just bite the bullet and install an ungrounded GFCI just so none of my family members end up dead.

Mr. Hanky · 05-06-2008, 02:26 AM

Aside from getting a real ground line working, I have to ask if you have any equipment you plan to connect to this outlet that actually have a 3-prong plug? It's not unusual to have one, but if you are lucky to not have any in your collection of equipment, then it may not be worth all the trouble to implement a genuine grounded outlet (aside from getting your surge suppressor to stop complaining).

I just wanted to offer up that alternative, in case you you might be getting into the mindset that the surge suppressor must be appeased at all costs.

If you have no 3-prong plug equipment, then the surge suppressor isn't really going to offer any more protection for your particular equipment whether or not there is a true ground on tap.

DiverSpear · 05-06-2008, 10:32 PM

How did you ring the wires out? Pictures of the panle box and outlet would be nice. Is there a main disconnect panel by the meter can anywhere? What worries me is that you are dealing with a FPE panel and they are dangerous pieces of junk. PM me if you want to continue a way but I need pics to determine what I'm up against.

MrBogey · 05-08-2008, 03:29 AM

Oof...I never like seeing things like this. Nothing but headaches especially when you're not in complete control of the property.

05-04-2008, 10:33 PM	#1
ausamerika Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Fort Meade, MD 4K collection:147 Blu-ray collection:473 DVD collection:42	Electrical advice needed! Hey all! I'm looking for the electricians in the group! I'm a soldier, so I live in government housing. We've lived here for almost three years, and for those three years, we had our entertainment system plugged into what we thought was a grounded outlet (i.e., it had a third, grounding prong). Recently I purchased a power conditioner, plugged it in, and it screamed at me about the jack not being grounded. I opened the outlet, and sure enough, NO grounding wire -- not even present. I think the house was built in the 50s or earlier. So, I call the housing company, and they send out an electrician who tells me the jack is not groundable, and replaces the three prong outlet with a two prong one (which is in line with code)... and then gives me several three-prong-to-two prong adapters... I thought that would be fine, as I was sure the outlet boxes themselves were probably grounded, and that screwing the adapter into the middle screw would ground out the jack -- no dice. It's too late to make a long story short, so I'm asking the electricians of the group, what should my next step be?

05-05-2008, 01:54 AM	#7
DiverSpear Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:St. Cloud, Florida Blu-ray collection:154 Trading Score:1	The grounds are very important they are the safety valves for the electrical system. The 2 prong plug is one of 2 possible ways to fix the situation, the other is to instal a GFCI outlet and then label it "no equipment ground (Art. 406.3(D)(3)(c) 2005 NEC). If the box is metal it should be grounded, however since it is not, if you have metal clad wire running to the box you can ground the recept to the box. The ground rod outside the window will not work. Take the red wire and make it your ground, it will have to be permanently marked green to meet code, and attach it to the the ground screw of a 3 prong receptand the metal box use either a green ground screw or a F-clip. Then take the other end of that wire in the bkr panel and attach it to the grounding bar in the panel (color it green also).Make sure the red wire is disconnected from the bkr first. If I was in Tx it would take me about 10 minutes to do the job. The electrician they sent out was just lazy. Last edited by DiverSpear; 05-05-2008 at 02:12 AM.

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05-04-2008, 11:34 PM	#2
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	PM gearyt. He'll know something.

05-05-2008, 01:16 AM	#4
Rob71 Blu-ray Knight Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Florida Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:295 Trading Score:5	Pull the coverplate off and see if there is a metal box. Your home could have gone through a renovation at some point and it could have been replaced with a plastic box. If it's plastic that's why it's not working. Also if you can get a look at it, try to get a look at the wires going into the box. Old houses sometimes use metal clad wire(BX) in which case that and your metal box would be the ground. How far is the outlet from the breaker box? If it's close by or hopefully on the same wall you could just replace the wiring. Also something to think about, are you sure they sent you an electrician and not a handyman? If not maybe call an electrician yourself and ask what it would cost to make the repair. They shouldn't charge you anything for the estimate.

05-06-2008, 12:33 AM	#8
ausamerika Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Fort Meade, MD 4K collection:147 Blu-ray collection:473 DVD collection:42	Yeah, so unfortunately, that red wire has no continuity back to the brkr box. I'm sure it's been there for decades. It's probably broken somewhere. Any other ideas? Perhaps at this point I should just bite the bullet and install an ungrounded GFCI just so none of my family members end up dead.

05-06-2008, 02:26 AM	#9
Mr. Hanky Active Member Member since:Sep 2007	Aside from getting a real ground line working, I have to ask if you have any equipment you plan to connect to this outlet that actually have a 3-prong plug? It's not unusual to have one, but if you are lucky to not have any in your collection of equipment, then it may not be worth all the trouble to implement a genuine grounded outlet (aside from getting your surge suppressor to stop complaining). I just wanted to offer up that alternative, in case you you might be getting into the mindset that the surge suppressor must be appeased at all costs. If you have no 3-prong plug equipment, then the surge suppressor isn't really going to offer any more protection for your particular equipment whether or not there is a true ground on tap.

05-06-2008, 10:32 PM	#10
DiverSpear Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:St. Cloud, Florida Blu-ray collection:154 Trading Score:1	How did you ring the wires out? Pictures of the panle box and outlet would be nice. Is there a main disconnect panel by the meter can anywhere? What worries me is that you are dealing with a FPE panel and they are dangerous pieces of junk. PM me if you want to continue a way but I need pics to determine what I'm up against.

05-08-2008, 03:29 AM	#11
MrBogey Expert Member Member since:Jan 2007	Oof...I never like seeing things like this. Nothing but headaches especially when you're not in complete control of the property.

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