Okay...My Circumstances Have Changed: The Oppo Wasn't What I'd Thought It Would Be...

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Alright.

Fed Ex arrived at my door yesterday with Oppo's new flagship upscaling DVD deck, the '983, which has been sold out on their site since the player was announced. I hooked up its included HDMI cable to my Onkyo '605's open HDMI 2 jack, set all assignments and set up the player for optimum 1080p output and CUE correction, scaling, etc. The end result was surprisingly not that different from what I see with my Panasonic Blu-ray player's DVD upconversion, and that's not saying much...

Sure -- most DVDs I ran though this player looked better than on the Panasonic -- but not terrifically better; the same problem discs gave me the same "issues" with the Oppo, at a slightly lesser extent or even not any different at all in some cases. For example, I popped in "No Reservations" on DVD, a title from my fiance's DVD collection that's mixed with mine, and on the Panasonic, at 1080p, there is HORRENDOUS ringing and staticky "noise" around the characters throughout the whole film -- this same problem was seen on the Oppo. Old titles that gave me problems in the past like "The Exorcist" still looked noisy and "dirty" with still some mosaic noise in the background -- I was dissapointed because this player was supposed to correct these issues via its Anchor Bay chip.

I have boiled this down to a few things:

1. There is something wrong with the HDMI cable Oppo supplies in the box with their players; it was gold plated but maybe it just sucks...

2. Something is going wrong with the way my Onkyo receiver is passing video through its HDMI OUT port -- seems everything that's played through this receiver no matter what the source component doesn't look all that great -- even 1080p Blu-ray...if this is the case, I don't know what to do...

3. Perhaps something is wrong with my Sony SXRD TV -- it's been calibrated with a disc, but perhaps this TV is introducing some kinds of artifacts...

At any rate, here is where I am now, Blu-ray Forum friends:

My criteria and circumstances have now changed for what I'm looking for in a new player...

I think I am going to return the Oppo player and just invest in another Blu-ray player, but now, it MUST have good DVD upconversion...

So -- the criteria are now these: Excellent Blu-ray performance (well, "better" than my Panasonic 'BD10A) with bitstreaming of TrueHD and Master Audio AND excellent DVD upscaling...

Would this just about leave the flagship Denon player with the Realta chip? If this is the case, I'll just cave and spend the two grand...

Should that Denon upscale the DVDs to my specifications with little or no block noise or artifacting at 1080p?

Please, recommend a player for me now with those mentioned characteristics...thanks so much, as always!

[HOME THEATRE ADDICT!]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

Alright.

Fed Ex arrived at my door yesterday with Oppo's new flagship upscaling DVD deck, the '983, which has been sold out on their site since the player was announced. I hooked up its included HDMI cable to my Onkyo '605's open HDMI 2 jack, set all assignments and set up the player for optimum 1080p output and CUE correction, scaling, etc. The end result was surprisingly not that different from what I see with my Panasonic Blu-ray player's DVD upconversion, and that's not saying much...

Sure -- most DVDs I ran though this player looked better than on the Panasonic -- but not terrifically better; the same problem discs gave me the same "issues" with the Oppo, at a slightly lesser extent or even not any different at all in some cases. For example, I popped in "No Reservations" on DVD, a title from my fiance's DVD collection that's mixed with mine, and on the Panasonic, at 1080p, there is HORRENDOUS ringing and staticky "noise" around the characters throughout the whole film -- this same problem was seen on the Oppo. Old titles that gave me problems in the past like "The Exorcist" still looked noisy and "dirty" with still some mosaic noise in the background -- I was dissapointed because this player was supposed to correct these issues via its Anchor Bay chip.

I have boiled this down to a few things:

1. There is something wrong with the HDMI cable Oppo supplies in the box with their players; it was gold plated but maybe it just sucks...

2. Something is going wrong with the way my Onkyo receiver is passing video through its HDMI OUT port -- seems everything that's played through this receiver no matter what the source component doesn't look all that great -- even 1080p Blu-ray...if this is the case, I don't know what to do...

3. Perhaps something is wrong with my Sony SXRD TV -- it's been calibrated with a disc, but perhaps this TV is introducing some kinds of artifacts...

At any rate, here is where I am now, Blu-ray Forum friends:

My criteria and circumstances have now changed for what I'm looking for in a new player...

I think I am going to return the Oppo player and just invest in another Blu-ray player, but now, it MUST have good DVD upconversion...

So -- the criteria are now these: Excellent Blu-ray performance (well, "better" than my Panasonic 'BD10A) with bitstreaming of TrueHD and Master Audio AND excellent DVD upscaling...

Would this just about leave the flagship Denon player with the Realta chip? If this is the case, I'll just cave and spend the two grand...

Should that Denon upscale the DVDs to my specifications with little or no block noise or artifacting at 1080p?

Please, recommend a player for me now with those mentioned characteristics...thanks so much, as always!

I like the Denon, however even if I had it I would not pay 2 grand for it. the Pioneer Elite would probably be nice too. Hom much does the oppo run?

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by HOME THEATRE ADDICT!

I like the Denon, however even if I had it I would not pay 2 grand for it. the Pioneer Elite would probably be nice too. Hom much does the oppo run?

Hey Addict,

Thanx for the reply...the Oppo ran me $413 with shipping -- I don't think it "looks" like 400 bucks worth of upscaling quality...

I am wondering if I should just cave and buy the Denon because that Realta chip looks awfully seducing for DVD upscaling...but, what if that still doesn't eliminate alot of the noise and macroblocking? I'll look at the Pioneer deck; does the Pioneer offer good DVD upscaling or no?

[HOME THEATRE ADDICT!]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

Hey Addict,

Thanx for the reply...the Oppo ran me $413 with shipping -- I don't think it "looks" like 400 bucks worth of upscaling quality...

I am wondering if I should just cave and buy the Denon because that Realta chip looks awfully seducing for DVD upscaling...but, what if that still doesn't eliminate alot of the noise and macroblocking? I'll look at the Pioneer deck; does the Pioneer offer good DVD upscaling or no?

For a minute I thought there was no sound! lol. honestly I dont know, but for $400 you should be satisfied! I have 300+ dvds, but for months now all Ive watched is blu.

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by HOME THEATRE ADDICT!

For a minute I thought there was no sound! lol. honestly I dont know, but for $400 you should be satisfied! I have 300+ dvds, but for months now all Ive watched is blu.

LOL...

I know what you mean about having the huge DVD collection and only watching Blu rays -- my collection of standard DVDs is massive and because of the Panasonic's horrible upscaling I always go to my Blu rays...

I was told on another site that the $400 Oppo is not really supposed to clean up bad DVD transfers, but I'm not sure if I want to keep this as a second player or return it and get a new Blu ray player that upscales well...

[HOME THEATRE ADDICT!]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

LOL...

I know what you mean about having the huge DVD collection and only watching Blu rays -- my collection of standard DVDs is massive and because of the Panasonic's horrible upscaling I always go to my Blu rays...

I was told on another site that the $400 Oppo is not really supposed to clean up bad DVD transfers, but I'm not sure if I want to keep this as a second player or return it and get a new Blu ray player that upscales well...

Thats what I would probably do, but thats me! Really I dont think Ive checked the upscaling on my blu-ray players, cause its been so long since Ive watched a standard dvd. kinda sad for me!

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by HOME THEATRE ADDICT!

Thats what I would probably do, but thats me! Really I dont think Ive checked the upscaling on my blu-ray players, cause its been so long since Ive watched a standard dvd. kinda sad for me!

Are you saying that's what you would do -- that is, return the Oppo and get a new Blu-ray player with better upscaling?

My only fear of this is that whatever Blu ray player I select, the DVD upconversion won't be that good because the primary goal of these players is to deliver Blu-ray...and the ONLY solution to that may be to get the Denon player...

[HOME THEATRE ADDICT!]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

Are you saying that's what you would do -- that is, return the Oppo and get a new Blu-ray player with better upscaling?

My only fear of this is that whatever Blu ray player I select, the DVD upconversion won't be that good because the primary goal of these players is to deliver Blu-ray...and the ONLY solution to that may be to get the Denon player...

Well if you do get the Denon, Im sure its got to be a good player, just high priced. Im fairly sure you could find something that does what you want for less $. or order 2 and send me one!

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by HOME THEATRE ADDICT!

Well if you do get the Denon, Im sure its got to be a good player, just high priced. Im fairly sure you could find something that does what you want for less $. or order 2 and send me one!

LOL...I would if I had the cash to do that with, bro!

But my fear, as I said, is that IF I get the Denon I'll again be dissapointed with the DVD performance; it DOES have the Realta chip though, although I don't know if that's more hype than performance...

As for something for less money that does what I want, I was looking at Denon's $1000 Blu ray player too, but this machine just got bad reviews in Home Theater for its DVD playback, as well...so that's out...

I would be open to other players aside from the Denon -- but I don't know which ones provide at least very good DVD upscaling, if not perfect...that's what I need the help of you members for!

I would consider the top of the line SONY ES model for $1300, but I don't know about its DVD performance and I don't know if it outputs TrueHD and Master Audio in bitstream...

I would consider the $1000 Pioneer Elite but I'm not sure about its DVD playback...

What else does that leave? I don't know; I don't want a Samsung and I don't want another Panasonic because their UniPher upscaling chip SUCKS...

[Wilche]

I saw the Marantz BD 8002 today at my dealer's. The build quality appears to be excellent. I didn't audition it, but it will be on my short list when I recover from my speaker upgrades. LOL. Why not compare the Denon and Marantz at a dealer, so you know if you are happy with the performance?




** NEW ** BD8002 Blu-Ray / DVD / CD Player | $1,999.99
BD8002 Blu-ray/DVD/CD player is every bit a Marantz! From careful choice of internal components through painstaking circuit design and attention to human engineering, the BD8002 provides the performance and flexibility that have made Marantz a classic name in home entertainment.
HDMI 1.3a Output supporting 36bit Deep Color
10bit Silicon Optix Realta HQV Video Processor inluding video scaling up to 1080p, IP converter and 24fps output
Bit Stream HD Audio Output from HDMI
HD Audio Decoder for Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD Master Audio
Analog Devices 297Mhz/12bit Video DAC
7.1ch High Quality Analog Audio Output
RS-232C Terminal for Custom Install Use

[Clark Kent]

I think you might have to lower your expectations regarding dvd upscaling in general. I've seen the most expensive and best dvd upconversion possible(an sdi modded transport feeding a very expensive dedicated video scaler) and still it does not match Blu-ray quality. As an older technology we have to live with the limitations imposed by that format. I understand where you are coming from as it pains me to realize the thousands of dvds I own are soon to be obsolete.

[HOME THEATRE ADDICT!]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

LOL...I would if I had the cash to do that with, bro!

But my fear, as I said, is that IF I get the Denon I'll again be dissapointed with the DVD performance; it DOES have the Realta chip though, although I don't know if that's more hype than performance...

I really dont either, guess Id do some research 1st. whatever you get, if you arent satisfied you can always return it. One thought that crossed my mind was a harman kardan, but I dont know much about them, I think I might have misspelled it anyway!

[crackinhedz]

I think you might have to lower your expectations regarding dvd upscaling in general.

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I think you might have to lower your expectations regarding dvd upscaling in general. I've seen the most expensive and best dvd upconversion possible(an sdi modded transport feeding a very expensive dedicated video scaler) and still it does not match Blu-ray quality. As an older technology we have to live with the limitations imposed by that format. I understand where you are coming from as it pains me to realize the thousands of dvds I own are soon to be obsolete.

Hello Again Man of Steel,

Thank you for your sentiments -- however, I need to make this clear: I am absolutely NOT expecting DVD to look like Blu-ray at all, nor am I even comparing them here -- I know standard DVD will look like standard DVD and will be regulated to the extent of the title's mastering...I am just saying that I am seeing introduced artifacts on these upscaling players on discs I am familiar with from playing them hundreds of times, and it's clear the PLAYERS are introducing these issues -- a good example is my Panasonic Blu ray player I have now...it DEFINITELY introduces jagged edges to character lines and vertical edges and it's really annoying...plus, it introduces horrible pixelation and macroblocking, and THESE are the kinds of things I want a good DVD upscaler to reduce or possibly eliminate. I am not expecting it to make DVD look like Blu-ray as many uninformed consumers do...

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

Crackin,

Please see my reply to Clark...

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by Wilche

I saw the Marantz BD 8002 today at my dealer's. The build quality appears to be excellent. I didn't audition it, but it will be on my short list when I recover from my speaker upgrades. LOL. Why not compare the Denon and Marantz at a dealer, so you know if you are happy with the performance?




** NEW ** BD8002 Blu-Ray / DVD / CD Player | $1,999.99
BD8002 Blu-ray/DVD/CD player is every bit a Marantz! From careful choice of internal components through painstaking circuit design and attention to human engineering, the BD8002 provides the performance and flexibility that have made Marantz a classic name in home entertainment.
HDMI 1.3a Output supporting 36bit Deep Color
10bit Silicon Optix Realta HQV Video Processor inluding video scaling up to 1080p, IP converter and 24fps output
Bit Stream HD Audio Output from HDMI
HD Audio Decoder for Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD Master Audio
Analog Devices 297Mhz/12bit Video DAC
7.1ch High Quality Analog Audio Output
RS-232C Terminal for Custom Install Use

I think the Marantz is the same machine as the $2000 Denon...

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by HOME THEATRE ADDICT!

I really dont either, guess Id do some research 1st. whatever you get, if you arent satisfied you can always return it. One thought that crossed my mind was a harman kardan, but I dont know much about them, I think I might have misspelled it anyway!

Harman/Kardon doesn't produce Blu-ray players at all, I don't think; I'm not really crazy about their products, either.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

Crackin,

Please see my reply to Clark...

have you tried playing the dvd's without the upscaling feature enabled?

[ClinicaTerra LTD]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

have you tried playing the dvd's without the upscaling feature enabled?

In the Oppo? And you mean just leaving it on "480p"? If so, yes I did, and it didn't look all that much different to my eyes -- anyway, my Sony SXRD upscales any incoming resolution to 1080p anyway, so then perhaps the crappy upscaling of the TV took over...I just don't know...anyway, what would have been the point of buying a premium upscaling DVD player just to leave it on 480p output? Know what I mean?

I'm not saying the Oppo made discs look BAD -- it's just that I'm having a hard time justifying the $400 now because they just don't look all that much better, and so I am wondering if I should return the Oppo and put the money towards a new Blu ray player that upscales better than my Panasonic at least...

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by ClinicaTerra LTD

For example, I popped in "No Reservations" on DVD, a title from my fiance's DVD collection that's mixed with mine, and on the Panasonic, at 1080p, there is HORRENDOUS ringing and staticky "noise" around the characters throughout the whole film -- this same problem was seen on the Oppo. Old titles that gave me problems in the past like "The Exorcist" still looked noisy and "dirty" with still some mosaic noise in the background -- I was dissapointed because this player was supposed to correct these issues via its Anchor Bay chip.

I have boiled this down to a few things:

1. There is something wrong with the HDMI cable Oppo supplies in the box with their players; it was gold plated but maybe it just sucks...

2. Something is going wrong with the way my Onkyo receiver is passing video through its HDMI OUT port -- seems everything that's played through this receiver no matter what the source component doesn't look all that great -- even 1080p Blu-ray...if this is the case, I don't know what to do...

3. Perhaps something is wrong with my Sony SXRD TV -- it's been calibrated with a disc, but perhaps this TV is introducing some kinds of artifacts...

At any rate,

Remember the GIGO principle : Garbage in garbage out, even if you dress a monkey in silk, it's still a monkey, etc etc. So if a DVD is noisy and has edge enhancement, etc etc, a better reproduction of it will just let you see that even better.

Now if you suspect there's something wrong with the quality of your equipment, discs, or cables, the solution to finding out the truth is simple: swap the suspect component with one that you know its working, so if you suspect an HDMI cable is defective, putting a different one (new or borrowed from a friend) should fix it. If you think your TV is faulty, go take your player and/or receiver to a friend's house or check the same TV model in a store with your settings. If you think it's the receiver, try getting a friend to lend you his, one wekend. Otherwise you'll be on a wild goose chase, and internet blu-raydonians can give you advice, but no one is actually there to see if something is wrong with a component (like midly defective/noisy, whatever) unless it's totally wrong and obvious.