Industry Behind Blu-ray

[Blu Titan]

We have seen a couple of "interesting" posts linking to HTF and AVS in regards to a new HD format. Here's a very telling article from Video Business news.:

New high-def format on the horizon
Backers could find obstacle in studios loyal to Blu
By Jennifer Netherby and Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 9/11/2008
SEPT. 11 | A home theater manufacturer preparing to launch a new high-definition disc that it promises is “Better than Blu” might have trouble convincing the major studios of the same.

Sim2, maker of high-performance home theater projectors, announced last week at the CEDIA consumer electronics convention in Denver that it would launch a new high-def format in January with startup Entertainment Experience. Entertainment Experience makes the “Better than Blu” high-end home entertainment systems, which are essentially Hewlett-Packard PCs with Entertainment Experience software that the company claims offers picture quality “beyond HD” 1080p discs.

The system will be bundled with Sim2 projection TVs and geared at the high-end home theater crowd. Prices have yet to be announced.

Entertainment Experience said it plans to offer movies from the major studios, some before they debut on DVD or Blu-ray Disc. Movies would be mailed directly to consumers on double-sided dual-layer DVDs, with pricing expected around $40 per film.

No major studios contacted by VB would officially comment on the new format, but one studio insider insisted the industry would stay loyal to Blu-ray, which just knocked out competitor HD DVD earlier this year.

“This high-def alternative is bull; it’s all about Blu-ray,” the insider said bluntly. “They’re grasping at straws. The entire industry is all behind Blu-ray.”

Another studio executive agreed that it’s unlikely any major studio would consider this technology, because it would cannibalize all of the work that has already gone into promoting Blu-ray.

The industry has pushed for one high-def format, believing it was necessary to convince consumers to make the upgrade to a high-def player.

Even Entertainment Experience head Jim Sullivan acknowledged to VB sister publication TWICE that it was a touchy area, saying films on the format would be directly mailed to consumers as a way for the studios to avoid taking sales away from Blu-ray.

TWICE’s Greg Tarr contributed


http://www.videobusiness.com/

[aygie]

Jesus, these people just won't stop will they? What a joke.

[tron3]

Not a very good joke either to be pulling on 9/11. I will bet ANYTHING this is some BS being used to hinder the sale of blu-ray this last quarter and make it seem less profitable.

Did I tell you guys? I have a new technology which will do away with blu-ray. It's a 3" disc with movies in 4K resolution. Sound tracks will only be the best available. To get maximum potential you need a 4K monitor. They will be available starting 2Q 2009 for around 6 grand.


See? I can lie like the rest of them. I just choose not to.

[Tok]

And I believe AVS is member of this new group.

Hmmm? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see why they protect and allow all the anti-BD types over there.

If you thought BD was priced out of range wait to see how out of touch this new group is with reality.

But the HD DVD fans will be all over it because it is not called Blu-ray.

Entertainment Experience said it plans to offer movies from the major studios, some before they debut on DVD or Blu-ray Disc. Movies would be mailed directly to consumers on double-sided dual-layer DVDs, with pricing expected around $40 per film.

Hmmm? Still sound like only 18GB versus 50GB. Even HD DVD was better.

[Blu Titan]

I can wager that the development company is in dire needs of funding. If I know anything, I know business finance. They are going to have a very difficult time surviving more than six months. And yes, there have been a couple of threads in the last week in this forum...as always... trying to start a little panic. Thankfully, and to everyone's credit, there were no chicken little responses or threads from the people here.

[Tok]

Entertainment Experience must be getting its studio support information from the same BB sales drone who looked me dead in the eyes last fall saying Disney was going neutral.

Like I did to him, I do the same to EE, I am LMAO at the absurdity of their claims.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Entertainment Experience must be getting its studio support information from the same BB sales drone who looked me dead in the eyes last fall saying Disney was going neutral.

....

Best Buy lost about $130 of my business because one of their sales drones couldn't tell me if The Fifth Element was the remastered version or not. He kept insisting that they can't get the old movies in high definition and are only putting the DVD version on blu-ray.

He repeated himself at least 3 times to my insistence I have researched it and KNOW FOR A FACT it was remastered in HD. Seeing how I was getting no where I politely thanked him for his time and put all 4 movies back. That was pretty much an act of spite for not being ignorant, but being too stupid to admit he was ignorant.

[quexos]

So they don't care to say what is the definition standard of that new format.
Graveyards for high tech are never too full so this one has its name and spot there just waiting for it to come.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by quexos

So they don't care to say what is the definition standard of that new format.
Graveyards for high tech are never too full so this one has its name and spot there just waiting for it to come.

I first heard of HD DVD and blu-ray about 5 years ago in 2003. It is highly suspicious that this comes out of the "blu" on the heels of the best blu-ray quarter expectations.

They can't develop these things in mere months. Even if it was a work in progress it would have been announced just to stir curiosity and gain backers. "We have a new optical technology" Oh, boy! Guess what, optical has been around since Laser Disc and existed in the labs before that.

[dialog_gvf]

Movies would be mailed directly to consumers on double-sided dual-layer DVDs, with pricing expected around $40 per film.

That doesn't mean that it plays off the DVD or is a single unit per film. It could mean double-sided DVD are the distribution media, and you install the movie on a media server. So, any number of discs could be used to distribute it.

This is not going to be any serious threat to Blu-ray. But, for those who aren't worried about owning niche formats and expensive movies, might be interested.

This is a lot like Laserdisc redux. Most people could go about their lives never realizing it exists and still be very happy.

Gary

[Bobby Henderson]

I still contend the whole think is a crock of B.S. It's a few get rich quick thinking bone-heads hatching a plan at a bad time. They're desperate for studio support which is why they're "fishing" with this press release mumbo-jumbo.

Right now, the only video format any better at all than Blu-ray is 2K Digital Cinema (Motion JPEG2000 & LPCM 5.1 on 300GB hard discs). The main difference is minimal levels of video compression (every film frame stored as a separate still image with no more than 3 transform tiles allowed) and a very big bit rate.

This rumored "better than Blu-ray" format doesn't sound like it measures up to BD standards at all. Worse, if you have to mail order and "install" every movie you buy, the viewing experience would be too cumbersome. Most people would be very turned off by it.

Rumors of a 4K format are pretty laughable since Hollywood hardly renders any CGI or digital intermediates in 4K. Most new movies are processed in 2K, which isn't very much different from 1080p. Another 5 years will pass and Hollywood will probably still be rendering at least the majority of its movies in 2K.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

This rumored "better than Blu-ray" format doesn't sound like it measures up to BD standards at all. Worse, if you have to mail order and "install" every movie you buy, the viewing experience would be too cumbersome. Most people would be very turned off by it.

Do we know enough about it yet to make conclusions?

Another possibility for playback is a jukebox with a flipping mechanism.

Whatever happened to NME and HD VMD? These companies do seem to pop into being and disappear. Like all those download services. So, there is a real possibility we never hear another thing about this. But, a lot of that has to do with people trying to offer mainstream alternatives.

A true high-end niche product that never expects to be anything but niche, could be "successful" (not that I am saying this could be that). But, it seems whenever anything new is being discussed people begin to either knee-jerk bad mouth it, or wring their hands with worry about it.

Most people would be incapable of seeing a difference if anything truly better than Blu-ray did come out. In fact, it's hard to see a path to mass adoption for anything beyond 1080p unless the mass market fundementally changes the way they watch television (smallish screens at a largish viewing distances in picture heights).

Gary

[kjack]

Wonder how many patents they'll be stepping on...

[Bobby Henderson]

Do we know enough about it yet to make conclusions?

I know enough about the standards used in creating the "digital masters" for Hollywood movies, as well as the standards for D-Cinema, to be able to draw informed conclusions.

The claim "better than Blu-ray" must show a visibly demonstrable example. I charge that no such example is available.

The vast majority of all current Hollywood movies have their digital intermediates and CGI rendered at 2K. The original "digital master" -the final cut of the movie is only 2K. 2048 X 1080 isn't much of a jump above 1920 X 1080. Outside of that, the only differences are audio-video compression levels and overall bit rates.

Blu-ray represents the highest quality of HD video that anyone can view in their homes. It's better than any competing video format and better than any broadcast format.

The only way any new video format could outdo Blu-ray is by delivering a higher standard, such as DCI-compliant 2K D-Cinema into the home. The problem is that simply is not practical. The technology required for that kind of video playback just isn't affordable for the general public or even for a lot of well-heeled customers. Really, I laugh at the idea of some day-trader spending Lamborghini money on his own home D-Cinema setup without first arranging in advance to get a steady supply of content. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for Hollywood to play ball on that one.

The Hollywood studios have had a belly full of format war crap and have long been ready to back a winner. That winner is Blu-ray.

[Anthony P]

They can't develop these things in mere months. Even if it was a work in progress it would have been announced just to stir curiosity and gain backers.

exactly.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by kjack

Wonder how many patents they'll be stepping on...

They won't be successful enough for anyone to care how many patents that they are stepping on. If they aren't profitable, which they will most definitely not be, then there is no money is suing them over patent imfringements. Patent holders will more than likely just sit back and watch as the company struggles itself into oblivion.

[Anthony P]

A true high-end niche product that never expects to be anything but niche, could be "successful" (not that I am saying this could be that). But, it seems whenever anything new is being discussed people begin to either knee-jerk bad mouth it, or wring their hands with worry about it.

There are always some that are worried about the end of BD (and I am sure for some it is on purpose). But come on, this is crap. Like Tron3 said we new about BD and HD DVD years and years before they came out. Things don't get built ijn a day and no tech is ever secret. This is either
1) some BS try and scare some people from BD
2) some BS to try and get interest in some vapourware and get loads of cash from very dumb venture capitalists (kind of like VMD and holographic disks) so there is the promise of "some time soon" and "it will be better (or cheaper)"
3) a feeler to see if someone might be interested in the concept to decide if they should work on it.

In the end I think most of us are just tired of every couple of days hearing how BD has no future because some crappy PR article talks about how this new tech will be here soon and be much better. And tired (not this thread) but such threads on these new techs being brought to us by people who where always anti BD.

[Sonny]

Like mentioned above, there have been other "HiDef" formats...HD VMD & so on that we hear about for a few days, then they go the way of the wind...LOL! There's nothing to worry about as far as I'm concerned.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

The Hollywood studios have had a belly full of format war crap and have long been ready to back a winner. That winner is Blu-ray.

Exactly right. There is simply too much money at stake for most of the studios to even think about a new format. If Blu-ray fails to supplant dvd, revenues will decline greatly at the studios over the coming years. All the studios realize the stakes and recognize Blu-ray as the best hope for future growth.

[scott1256ca]

There is nothing in what I have read about this so far that would indicate this is intended to be mainstream. It looks designed to be niche. 2k movies (just as an example) delivered on 3-4 dual sided dual layer dvds, intended to be copied to a hard drive is exactly the type of thing that would appeal to the people who used to frequent AVS before the format war. Any who are saying this will supplant BD are the newer crowd of zealots who can safely be ignored, but I could see a niche market for some of the committed enthusiasts there, so I don't begrudge them talking about it.