PCM or Bitstream? - Blu-ray Forum

GCW2216 · 03-25-2007, 05:19 PM

From what I'm reading, people perfer PCM over Bitstream. However, I can't get my PS3 to recognize the 6.1 DTS of The Sentinel without switching to Bitstream. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong?

I have a Pioneer Elite receiver that supports HDMI 1.2.

theknub · 03-25-2007, 05:36 PM

what happens when using pcm is that the player decodes it and then outputs that stream to the receiver in multichannel pcm. your receiver should not have any info about the dts track that is being played since it already has been decoded. ill assume given that you have an hdmi 1.2 receiver, that your receiver can handle multichannel pcm.

NovaBomb · 03-25-2007, 06:48 PM

I'm having a hard time to decide which is giving me a better quality sound, I had it on PCM for a while, but when I swiched it to bitstream it seemed like I was getting a much more bolder sound. I had to turn the volume down more then when I had it on PCM. So I don't know if my receiver is just doing a better job decodeing the signal then the my PS3? I don't know, but because of that I just leave it on bitstream.

theknub · 03-25-2007, 07:02 PM

nova, i'm assuming that you have an hdmi receiver. i have read that an hdmi pcm issue exists that is similar to the issue with analog inputs. that could be why pcm sound doesn't sound as "bold."

NovaBomb · 03-25-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theknub

nova, i'm assuming that you have an hdmi receiver. i have read that an hdmi pcm issue exists that is similar to the issue with analog inputs. that could be why pcm sound doesn't sound as "bold."

Yes I do have a HDMI receiver, when you say theres a "HDMI PCM issue" what do you mean? Is it a issue with HDMIs, the PS3s, or Receivers?

ProvenFlipper · 03-26-2007, 12:53 AM

Don't the Pioneer Elite receivers have the LFE bug unless the firmware is updated? Maybe this is the problem and the reason the bitstream sounds "bolder".

Blu Tiger · 03-26-2007, 02:00 AM

It's the same for me. I have a Harmon Kardon receiver and I can only get my PS3 to do Dolby Digital or DTS when I set it to bitstream. ?????

theknub · 03-26-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaBomb

Yes I do have a HDMI receiver, when you say theres a "HDMI PCM issue" what do you mean? Is it a issue with HDMIs, the PS3s, or Receivers?

it deals with the receivers themselves. see provenflippers post

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddtigger

It's the same for me. I have a Harmon Kardon receiver and I can only get my PS3 to do Dolby Digital or DTS when I set it to bitstream. ?????

kidd, different issue for the most part. bitstream on current receivers only works to pass the advanced codecs if you have hdmi 1.3. otherwise, you have to use pcm

PurpleAardvark · 04-01-2007, 04:23 AM

Not to be a jerk about this and I kind of know the answer but it might be helpful if some one explained bitstream and PCM, what they do and how they work so everyone who views this might understand.
Some people who go on here live in the dark ages like one of my co workers no names caugh****jake****cough, beleives there is no difference unless you use an optical cable for sound. We work at BB he is HT and I am LP. Bend your brain on that one. A simple run down might help people like him understand things better.

ProvenFlipper · 04-01-2007, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleAardvark

Not to be a jerk about this and I kind of know the answer but it might be helpful if some one explained bitstream and PCM, what they do and how they work so everyone who views this might understand.

The PCM setting does the decoding of any compressed audio in the player and outputs the audio over HDMI or analog outputs as "PCM". Bitstream feeds the audio off of the disc to the receiver for decoding in the receiver.

GCW2216 · 04-07-2007, 08:30 PM

So which would you recommend? I use a PS3 as my Blu-ray player, should I let it decode the audio then send to the receiver (PCM) or let the receiver do the work (Bit Stream)?

Thanks!

kurt vidal · 04-08-2007, 04:27 PM

GCW, most of the folks who use a PS3 (like me) use the PCM out as the PS3 actually decodes more codex (dts, dd, lossless, etc).
As far as the comment about your not getting more volume from the PCM because of possible LFE issue you can check out this post on the AVS forum which should let you give you an idea if your "81" has this specific bug.
One thing you should try just for the fun of it is to set your PS3 up using the PCM and select a blu-ray disc/movie that has "lossless" audio and go into the setup once the movies playing and set it for "lossless"...now listen, then go back to your "bitstream" setting and play it back letting the rcvr decode (you will likely have to select standard 5.1 audio on the blu-ray movie once you've got it started. Now....the PCM and lossless combo should sound DRAMATICALLY better.

Iceman_II · 04-09-2007, 03:14 AM

OK, stupid question here... everyone talks about HDMI for audio... what about those of us poor souls stuck with Optics?

If I understand correctly, the optic bandwidth is not wide enough for the uncompressed, so does this mean that in this case it is better to stick with bitstream??

kurt vidal · 04-09-2007, 10:31 PM

Iceman, u understand correctly...optical=no uncompressed audio. And yes, I believe you have to stick w/the bitstream if you are running optical out of the PS3....sorry, guess ya need to talk the wife into a new rcvr...I gotta tell ya...uncompressed/lossless is AWESOME!

GCW2216 · 04-10-2007, 12:13 AM

What is the best movie for lossless audio?

THE STUD · 04-10-2007, 12:39 AM

well hey guys, maybe u already mentioned this, but if you don't have HDMI reciever, but the blu-ray has 6 channel analog output, can you use that instead? that should relay the HD uncompressed audio shouldn't it?

kurt vidal · 04-10-2007, 01:15 AM

STUD, I think you can do that but not sure, here are a couple links you can research your question.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994
http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dtsh...g-receiver.php

Iceman_II · 04-10-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurt vidal

Iceman, u understand correctly...optical=no uncompressed audio. And yes, I believe you have to stick w/the bitstream if you are running optical out of the PS3....sorry, guess ya need to talk the wife into a new rcvr...I gotta tell ya...uncompressed/lossless is AWESOME!

No one to convince other than myself... I am holding out for Yamaha to come out with an HDMI 1.3 rcvr

jermwhl · 04-10-2007, 08:36 PM

Here's the link to get your firmware update for your pioneer elite AVR.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...940998,00.html

It says:

Dear Valued Customer:

Re: Free Firmware Upgrade for Certain 2005 and 2006 Pioneer Home A/V Receivers

We would like to inform you of the availability of a free firmware upgrade to address a potential service issue with the following Pioneer home A/V receivers:

VSX-72TXV VSX-82TXS
VSX-74TXVi VSX-84TXSi
VSX-81TXV VSX-9110TXV-K

Pioneer has become aware that in some circumstances the above-listed receivers may experience certain audio and/or video symptoms related to the use of an HDMI port on the receiver. The symptoms include (1) picture quality issues (dark screen image, no video image, white screen and/or intermittent picture) when the input signal to the receiver is connected through an analog port (component, S-Video, composite) and the output signal from the receiver is connected though an HDMI port, or (2) low subwoofer speaker sound level when the input signal to the receiver is connected through an HDMI port. Importantly, this potential service issue does not pose any health or safety risk.

If you have an affected home A/V receiver and you are experiencing a service issue as described above, please contact Pioneer Customer Service toll free at 800-421-1404 to arrange for a free firmware upgrade. Pioneer service representatives are available Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. to 7:30 p.m. (Eastern Time).

GCW2216 · 04-11-2007, 09:32 PM

Thank you jermwhl for the link. I've noticed my subwoofer output is horrible. I have a VSX-81TXV.

03-25-2007, 05:19 PM	#1
GCW2216 Active Member Member since:Mar 2007	PCM or Bitstream? From what I'm reading, people perfer PCM over Bitstream. However, I can't get my PS3 to recognize the 6.1 DTS of The Sentinel without switching to Bitstream. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong? I have a Pioneer Elite receiver that supports HDMI 1.2.

04-10-2007, 12:39 AM	#16
THE STUD Active Member Member since:Mar 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	well hey guys, maybe u already mentioned this, but if you don't have HDMI reciever, but the blu-ray has 6 channel analog output, can you use that instead? that should relay the HD uncompressed audio shouldn't it? Last edited by THE STUD; 04-10-2007 at 03:25 AM.

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03-25-2007, 05:36 PM	#2
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	what happens when using pcm is that the player decodes it and then outputs that stream to the receiver in multichannel pcm. your receiver should not have any info about the dts track that is being played since it already has been decoded. ill assume given that you have an hdmi 1.2 receiver, that your receiver can handle multichannel pcm.

03-25-2007, 06:48 PM	#3
NovaBomb Active Member Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray collection:48	I'm having a hard time to decide which is giving me a better quality sound, I had it on PCM for a while, but when I swiched it to bitstream it seemed like I was getting a much more bolder sound. I had to turn the volume down more then when I had it on PCM. So I don't know if my receiver is just doing a better job decodeing the signal then the my PS3? I don't know, but because of that I just leave it on bitstream.

03-25-2007, 07:02 PM	#4
theknub Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2006	nova, i'm assuming that you have an hdmi receiver. i have read that an hdmi pcm issue exists that is similar to the issue with analog inputs. that could be why pcm sound doesn't sound as "bold."

03-26-2007, 12:53 AM	#6
ProvenFlipper Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Home Theater Gallery:4 4K collection:335 Blu-ray collection:901 Trading Score:1	Don't the Pioneer Elite receivers have the LFE bug unless the firmware is updated? Maybe this is the problem and the reason the bitstream sounds "bolder".

03-26-2007, 02:00 AM	#7
Blu Tiger Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Denver, CO Blu-ray collection:725 Trading Score:27	It's the same for me. I have a Harmon Kardon receiver and I can only get my PS3 to do Dolby Digital or DTS when I set it to bitstream. ?????

04-01-2007, 04:23 AM	#9
PurpleAardvark Active Member Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Cross Plains, WI	Not to be a jerk about this and I kind of know the answer but it might be helpful if some one explained bitstream and PCM, what they do and how they work so everyone who views this might understand. Some people who go on here live in the dark ages like one of my co workers no names caugh**jake**cough, beleives there is no difference unless you use an optical cable for sound. We work at BB he is HT and I am LP. Bend your brain on that one. A simple run down might help people like him understand things better.

04-07-2007, 08:30 PM	#11
GCW2216 Active Member Member since:Mar 2007	So which would you recommend? I use a PS3 as my Blu-ray player, should I let it decode the audio then send to the receiver (PCM) or let the receiver do the work (Bit Stream)? Thanks!

04-08-2007, 04:27 PM	#12
kurt vidal Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:South Lyon, MI	GCW, most of the folks who use a PS3 (like me) use the PCM out as the PS3 actually decodes more codex (dts, dd, lossless, etc). As far as the comment about your not getting more volume from the PCM because of possible LFE issue you can check out this post on the AVS forum which should let you give you an idea if your "81" has this specific bug. One thing you should try just for the fun of it is to set your PS3 up using the PCM and select a blu-ray disc/movie that has "lossless" audio and go into the setup once the movies playing and set it for "lossless"...now listen, then go back to your "bitstream" setting and play it back letting the rcvr decode (you will likely have to select standard 5.1 audio on the blu-ray movie once you've got it started. Now....the PCM and lossless combo should sound DRAMATICALLY better.

04-09-2007, 03:14 AM	#13
Iceman_II Expert Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Ft. Worth Home Theater Gallery:2 Blu-ray collection:308 Blu-ray reviews: 4	OK, stupid question here... everyone talks about HDMI for audio... what about those of us poor souls stuck with Optics? If I understand correctly, the optic bandwidth is not wide enough for the uncompressed, so does this mean that in this case it is better to stick with bitstream??

04-09-2007, 10:31 PM	#14
kurt vidal Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:South Lyon, MI	Iceman, u understand correctly...optical=no uncompressed audio. And yes, I believe you have to stick w/the bitstream if you are running optical out of the PS3....sorry, guess ya need to talk the wife into a new rcvr...I gotta tell ya...uncompressed/lossless is AWESOME!

04-10-2007, 12:13 AM	#15
GCW2216 Active Member Member since:Mar 2007	What is the best movie for lossless audio?

04-10-2007, 01:15 AM	#17
kurt vidal Member Member since:Dec 2006 Location:South Lyon, MI	STUD, I think you can do that but not sure, here are a couple links you can research your question. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994 http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dtsh...g-receiver.php

04-10-2007, 08:36 PM	#19
jermwhl Special Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Virginia	Here's the link to get your firmware update for your pioneer elite AVR. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...940998,00.html It says: Dear Valued Customer: Re: Free Firmware Upgrade for Certain 2005 and 2006 Pioneer Home A/V Receivers We would like to inform you of the availability of a free firmware upgrade to address a potential service issue with the following Pioneer home A/V receivers: VSX-72TXV VSX-82TXS VSX-74TXVi VSX-84TXSi VSX-81TXV VSX-9110TXV-K Pioneer has become aware that in some circumstances the above-listed receivers may experience certain audio and/or video symptoms related to the use of an HDMI port on the receiver. The symptoms include (1) picture quality issues (dark screen image, no video image, white screen and/or intermittent picture) when the input signal to the receiver is connected through an analog port (component, S-Video, composite) and the output signal from the receiver is connected though an HDMI port, or (2) low subwoofer speaker sound level when the input signal to the receiver is connected through an HDMI port. Importantly, this potential service issue does not pose any health or safety risk. If you have an affected home A/V receiver and you are experiencing a service issue as described above, please contact Pioneer Customer Service toll free at 800-421-1404 to arrange for a free firmware upgrade. Pioneer service representatives are available Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. to 7:30 p.m. (Eastern Time).

04-11-2007, 09:32 PM	#20
GCW2216 Active Member Member since:Mar 2007	Thank you jermwhl for the link. I've noticed my subwoofer output is horrible. I have a VSX-81TXV.

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