Ghost In The Shell 1 & 2 questions - Blu-ray Forum

iownu · 12-01-2008, 06:27 AM

So I hear GITS1 PQ sucks? Is that true? I also heard that GITS2 - Innocence PQ is amazing.

I also see some weird 2.0 version of GITS out there. What's the deal with these and will there be better releases or should I get what's out there now?

Thanks

jd213 · 12-01-2008, 06:42 AM

Yeah, GITS one uses an old master. It's better than the DVD and is the best version of the film though, but I hope a new remaster comes someday. The audio is only 2.0 PCM (encoded in Dolby Surround so you can use ProLogic to make it surround), but the Japanese 5.1 track on the US DVDs is just a cheap upmix done for the US. It might sound "better" to some but it's technically inferior IMO.

2.0 features a new 5.1 remix with newly recorded dialogue (the Puppet Master is now played by one of Oishii's favorite voice actresses, Yoshiko Sakakibara). It also features some of the scenes replaced with CGI, which has been mocked by a great many. The green color prevalent through much of the film is also now replaced with orange for some reason. I haven't seen the 2.0 version yet, but I might rent it. It comes out on Blu-ray in Japan this month, and will have English subtitles.

Mobe1969 · 12-01-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd213

Yeah, GITS one uses an old master. It's better than the DVD and is the best version of the film though, but I hope a new remaster comes someday. The audio is only 2.0 PCM (encoded in Dolby Surround so you can use ProLogic to make it surround), but the Japanese 5.1 track on the US DVDs is just a cheap upmix done for the US. It might sound "better" to some but it's technically inferior IMO.

2.0 features a new 5.1 remix with newly recorded dialogue (the Puppet Master is now played by one of Oishii's favorite voice actresses, Yoshiko Sakakibara). It also features some of the scenes replaced with CGI, which has been mocked by a great many. The green color prevalent through much of the film is also now replaced with orange for some reason. I haven't seen the 2.0 version yet, but I might rent it. It comes out on Blu-ray in Japan this month, and will have English subtitles.

The 2.0 version has subs? You sure? Can you confirm when you do get it. The original press release said only the original had english subs.

Regarding the first one, it was a poor pillarboxed effort, like most of those Honemaise Blu Ray releases. Jin Roh, WXIII, Ghost in the Shell are all pillarboxed. Patlabor 1 and 2 got remastered (thank god).

jd213 · 12-01-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

The 2.0 version has subs? You sure? Can you confirm when you do get it. The original press release said only the original had english subs.

Yeah, Bandai Visual updated the product page a little while ago. http://www.asianblurayguide.com/news...ish_subtitles/

Quote:

Regarding the first one, it was a poor pillarboxed effort, like most of those Honemaise Blu Ray releases. Jin Roh, WXIII, Ghost in the Shell are all pillarboxed. Patlabor 1 and 2 got remastered (thank god).

You mean windowboxed (black bars on all sides, pillarboxing is bars on the sides)? Yeah, this did happen but it doesn't have anything to do with the remastering or the PQ. All of those Blu-rays you listed look great (except GITS).

Jeff Kleist · 12-01-2008, 08:57 AM

Japanese transfers always compensate for overscan. The pillarboxing is quite small.

jd213 · 12-01-2008, 09:13 AM

Is there a specific reason for this? I assumed it's because widescreen CRTs were available here (Japan) sooner and were more popular, but if you have any other info/speculation I'd be curious to hear it.

I remember the scene in Strange Days when it shows a widescreen CRT in a bar or something, and it was all supposed to be like "ooo, it's the future cuz' it's the year 2000 and everybody has widescreen TVs! " but they were already pretty commonplace in Japan when that movie was made.

Mobe1969 · 12-01-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Japanese transfers always compensate for overscan. The pillarboxing is quite small.

Patlabor 1 and 2 don't, and to my knowledge, Innocence doesn't either (IU don't have it). And no, it is not quite small. And in terms of "all Japanese transfers" I can't think of any live action Japanese films I've seen since getting a 0 overscan setup that have pillarboxing.

Getting rid of overscan has been a holy grail for me, and with Blu Ray and HDMI and a decent 1080p TV, I have finally gotten it. So it ticks me. I'm in the "if you aren't gonna do it properly, don't do it at all" school of thought...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd213

Is there a specific reason for this? I assumed it's because widescreen CRTs were available here (Japan) sooner and were more popular, but if you have any other info/speculation I'd be curious to hear it.

I remember the scene in Strange Days when it shows a widescreen CRT in a bar or something, and it was all supposed to be like "ooo, it's the future cuz' it's the year 2000 and everybody has widescreen TVs! " but they were already pretty commonplace in Japan when that movie was made.

No, there is no reason for it, other than the fact they were old masters from the DVD era. And as I mentioned above it was actually pretty hard to get no overscan prior to full HD setups. Even on my Bravia I can't get 0 overscan with anything other than HDMI (so I also got a HDMI multiregion DVD player).

jd213 · 12-01-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

No, there is no reason for it, other than the fact they were old masters from the DVD era.

Dude, no they're not. They're brand new telecines. The first pressings of these even came with DVDs containing the new remaster.

Jeff Kleist · 12-01-2008, 10:55 AM

-

Quote:

Patlabor 1 and 2 don't, and to my knowledge, Innocence doesn't either (IU don't have it). And no, it is not quite small. And in terms of "all Japanese transfers" I can't think of any live action Japanese films I've seen since getting a 0 overscan setup that have pillarboxing.

My R2 dvd of Mamoru Oshii's Avalon does. I usually wait for the R3 releases of Japanese films because they're usually subbed and half the price. I don't have Patlabor, but I do know that there'\s a general obcession withe overscan and the shortcomings of TVs. Let's not forget the debacle of Spirited Away's red push because of perceived weak reds on LCD TVs

iownu · 12-01-2008, 11:26 AM

When you guys say v2.0 does this mean [ GITS I ] v2.0 or does it mean Innocence is called v2.0?

What's the deal with Innocence? I always find two different covers here in Japan.

Are these both GITS movie number 2?

Giyomu · 12-01-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iownu

When you guys say v2.0 does this mean [ GITS I ] v2.0 or does it mean Innocence is called v2.0?

What's the deal with Innocence? I always find two different covers here in Japan.

Are these both GITS movie number 2?

nope, Innocence is Innocence

GITS 2.0 is kinda "remix" of the original GITS as detailed above

Mobe1969 · 12-01-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

-

My R2 dvd of Mamoru Oshii's Avalon does. I usually wait for the R3 releases of Japanese films because they're usually subbed and half the price. I don't have Patlabor, but I do know that there'\s a general obcession withe overscan and the shortcomings of TVs. Let's not forget the debacle of Spirited Away's red push because of perceived weak reds on LCD TVs

Yeah, so they definitely do overscan boxing on a lot of releases, but it isn't blanketed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd213

Dude, no they're not. They're brand new telecines. The first pressings of these even came with DVDs containing the new remaster.

Remaster doesn't necessarily mean re-telecine. Maybe they were just recompressed. I don't know honestly.

Jeff Kleist · 12-01-2008, 07:59 PM

The second Innocence cover is the new version also coming out in the US. I believe it\'s a new compression, but the movie is digital so no re-telecine

Mobe1969 · 12-01-2008, 08:34 PM

I so hope the US Innocence isn't region locked

GGX · 12-01-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd213

The audio is only 2.0 PCM (encoded in Dolby Surround so you can use ProLogic to make it surround)

lol. That makes no sense. Its just standard 2.0 PCM audio. If it was encoded in Dolby Surround then it wouldnt technically be PCM anymore.

Jeff Kleist · 12-01-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGX

lol. That makes no sense. Its just standard 2.0 PCM audio. If it was encoded in Dolby Surround then it wouldnt technically be PCM anymore.

Dolby surround uses a stereo channel with a matrixed mono rear channel. It's a 2.0 source

GGX · 12-01-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Dolby surround uses a stereo channel with a matrixed mono rear channel. It's a 2.0 source

How can an audio track be encoded in Dolby Surround yet still be uncompressed PCM at the same time? Thats what I'm saying.

Jeff Kleist · 12-01-2008, 11:26 PM

Dolby Surround is not Dolby Digital. There are inaudible cues in the sound itself that tell the receiver to which speaker to direct the sound. GITS was originally mixed this way for theatrical release. Surround was commonly used on vhs as well.

jd213 · 12-02-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

Remaster doesn't necessarily mean re-telecine. Maybe they were just recompressed. I don't know honestly.

Unless you think it means they used an upscaled DVD master (or an old broadcast master in the case of GitS), then yes, it means a new telecine.

Again, just because they decided to make it windowboxed doesn't mean they transferred it from film a long time ago.

iownu · 12-02-2008, 06:29 AM

Well there are only four or so? blu-ray regions in the world so doesn't really matter if it's locked does it? All Japanese and North American BR's play on whatever players.

The second Innocence has been out for quite a while here in Japan. PQ of Innocence is supposed to be stellar.

Why isn't there a new Box set with GITS I v2.0 and Innocence v2.0? Is there in Japan?

12-01-2008, 06:27 AM	#1
iownu Member Member since:May 2008 Location:Osaka	Ghost In The Shell 1 & 2 questions So I hear GITS1 PQ sucks? Is that true? I also heard that GITS2 - Innocence PQ is amazing. I also see some weird 2.0 version of GITS out there. What's the deal with these and will there be better releases or should I get what's out there now? Thanks

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12-01-2008, 06:42 AM	#2
jd213 Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:less than 10 minutes from Akihabara	Yeah, GITS one uses an old master. It's better than the DVD and is the best version of the film though, but I hope a new remaster comes someday. The audio is only 2.0 PCM (encoded in Dolby Surround so you can use ProLogic to make it surround), but the Japanese 5.1 track on the US DVDs is just a cheap upmix done for the US. It might sound "better" to some but it's technically inferior IMO. 2.0 features a new 5.1 remix with newly recorded dialogue (the Puppet Master is now played by one of Oishii's favorite voice actresses, Yoshiko Sakakibara). It also features some of the scenes replaced with CGI, which has been mocked by a great many. The green color prevalent through much of the film is also now replaced with orange for some reason. I haven't seen the 2.0 version yet, but I might rent it. It comes out on Blu-ray in Japan this month, and will have English subtitles.

12-01-2008, 08:57 AM	#5
Jeff Kleist The Digital Bits Member since:Jul 2008 Trading Score:1	Japanese transfers always compensate for overscan. The pillarboxing is quite small.

12-01-2008, 09:13 AM	#6
jd213 Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:less than 10 minutes from Akihabara	Is there a specific reason for this? I assumed it's because widescreen CRTs were available here (Japan) sooner and were more popular, but if you have any other info/speculation I'd be curious to hear it. I remember the scene in Strange Days when it shows a widescreen CRT in a bar or something, and it was all supposed to be like "ooo, it's the future cuz' it's the year 2000 and everybody has widescreen TVs! " but they were already pretty commonplace in Japan when that movie was made.

12-01-2008, 11:26 AM	#10
iownu Member Member since:May 2008 Location:Osaka	When you guys say v2.0 does this mean [ GITS I ] v2.0 or does it mean Innocence is called v2.0? What's the deal with Innocence? I always find two different covers here in Japan. Are these both GITS movie number 2?

12-01-2008, 07:59 PM	#13
Jeff Kleist The Digital Bits Member since:Jul 2008 Trading Score:1	The second Innocence cover is the new version also coming out in the US. I believe it\'s a new compression, but the movie is digital so no re-telecine

12-01-2008, 08:34 PM	#14
Mobe1969 Blu-ray Knight Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Brisbane, Australia 4K collection:980 Blu-ray collection:1610	I so hope the US Innocence isn't region locked

12-01-2008, 11:26 PM	#18
Jeff Kleist The Digital Bits Member since:Jul 2008 Trading Score:1	Dolby Surround is not Dolby Digital. There are inaudible cues in the sound itself that tell the receiver to which speaker to direct the sound. GITS was originally mixed this way for theatrical release. Surround was commonly used on vhs as well.

12-02-2008, 06:29 AM	#20
iownu Member Member since:May 2008 Location:Osaka	Well there are only four or so? blu-ray regions in the world so doesn't really matter if it's locked does it? All Japanese and North American BR's play on whatever players. The second Innocence has been out for quite a while here in Japan. PQ of Innocence is supposed to be stellar. Why isn't there a new Box set with GITS I v2.0 and Innocence v2.0? Is there in Japan?

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