disney limited releases?

[ObiTrentKenobi]

does anybody have a clue if Disney is doing their "limited release" scheme with their movies like sleeping beauty, cinderella, little mermaid, beauty and the beast, peter pan and the other former platinum movies???

i love these movies and have them on standard dvd, (except for snow white; so if anybody wants to sell me their copy i may be game), but i want to get them all on Blu for the source material.. i have a huge disney collection on SDVD.

[Saturius]

It's been a while since I've seen the Sleeping Beauty commercials so while I think the Sleeping Beauty DVD is defintely going to go on a moratorium in a couple of years, I'm not sure about the Blu Ray. That actually might be a good strategy on Disney's part to further make Blu Ray mainstream. Put Disney animated DVD's back in the vault but keep the Blu Ray animated dvd in print and they might be able to "force" people to upgrade to get their fav. Disney classics. I despise Disney's "vault" tactics but it still might be a good strategy. Also, Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio both came/will come with a DVD copy of the movie in addition to the Blu Ray copy, so you could buy the Blu Ray version and save if for whenever you upgrade, and still be able to watch a DVD copy of the movie in the present. They're doing this for people in the exact same situation you seem to be in. It seems like they will be doing this for the Animated classics on Blu Ray to help adoption of the format, and they'll probably keep doing it for their animated classics until they feel Blu Ray has hit a wide enough share of the market.

[jtwise]

I recall that the commercial, said that they both were limited releases?....

[garnet]

The sticker on the box says Limited Time Only!

All the Disney classics are limited edition only, and then go out of print for 7 years each. That's been the Disney business plan for at least a decade. The only deviation from this, ever, is Fantasia which they advertised heavily would never be released again but it's indeed coming to Blu-Ray next year. I guess they justified this because it's a new format, and also because they want to insure a profitable 2009 in a bad economy. They have not announced it coming back to DVD, but it likely will at the same time because you can't argue with a large cash influx while the parks are doing poorly.

If you buy several copies of Sleeping Beauty, which I can't afford to do, it will go up in value greatly as more people get machines, want it, and it's long out of print and not coming back for several years. Regular DVDs of SB, as well as the VHS, easily sold for double the original price on eBay once quantities got scarce as most who buy these titles don't part with them.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by garnet

All the Disney classics are limited edition only, and then go out of print for 7 years each. That's been the Disney business plan for at least a decade. The only deviation from this, ever, is Fantasia which they advertised heavily would never be released again but it's indeed coming to Blu-Ray next year. I guess they justified this because it's a new format, and also because they want to insure a profitable 2009 in a bad economy. They have not announced it coming back to DVD, but it likely will at the same time because you can't argue with a large cash influx while the parks are doing poorly.

Parks doing poorly? For the 2008 fiscal year Disney resorts & parks saw an 8% increase in revenue over 2007, and I don't know that home media sales for Fantasia (or any other title) could produce a "large cash influx" on the scale of park revenues. For that matter, I can't recall Disney ever stating they'd vault Fantasia forever. It set sales records on VHS; it's one of only two Disney animated films on AFI's top 100 list (along with Snow White); it's an evergreen title that will always sell.

Originally Posted by ObiTrentKenobi

does anybody have a clue if Disney is doing their "limited release" scheme with their movies like sleeping beauty, cinderella, little mermaid, beauty and the beast, peter pan and the other former platinum movies???

There are no "former" Platinum movies: the line still exists. Sleeping Beauty was the first Platinum edition on BD, Pinocchio will street next March (on BD and DVD), Snow White will get its second Platinum release in the fall, Fantasia will come in early 2010, and then the existing Platinum rotation will resume (we assume) with Beauty & the Beast in fall 2010. And you can be sure they will be available for a limited time only (although HOW limited remains to be seen---the Aladdin PE was on the shelves for more than three years, while others have stayed out of the vault for mere months).

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

I don't know that home media sales for Fantasia (or any other title) could produce a "large cash influx" on the scale of park revenues. For that matter, I can't recall Disney ever stating they'd vault Fantasia forever. It set sales records on VHS

...I can (or at least that "Fantasia Revisited" would permanently "replace" it), and I can vouch that's WHY it set sales records on VHS--
We were buying extra copies, and storing them in lead-lined containers, to survive the Apocalypse, if necessary.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by EricJ

...I can (or at least that "Fantasia Revisited" would permanently "replace" it), and I can vouch that's WHY it set sales records on VHS--
We were buying extra copies, and storing them in lead-lined containers, to survive the Apocalypse, if necessary.

Really? I remember buying the VHS (the first film I bought on tape, one of only half a dozen); I don't recall the hoopla.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Really? I remember buying the VHS (the first film I bought on tape, one of only half a dozen); I don't recall the hoopla.

Uh, didn't we already have the VHS-era historical discussion about "Huh?--Why did they say 'Available for the last time', when it wasn't?"

[kevinbr100]

how did that work with dvds? were limited releases by disney truly limited? or just a marketing ploy?

[Saturius]

Originally Posted by kevinbr100

how did that work with dvds? were limited releases by disney truly limited? or just a marketing ploy?

They definitely were limited and it was a marketing ploy. When Disney first got into DVD in 2000 for their animated classics, they released I think 6 titles under a Gold Collection banner. One of them was the Little Mermaid. They were available for a ridiculousy short amount of time. In 2001 they released Snow White in October and then vaulted it in January 2002. The same with Beauty and the Beast. Released in October 2002, vaulted in Jan 2003. You could still find them a few months after that date, but Disney stopped manufacturing the discs. With later releases like Cinderella and Lady and the Tramp, they expanded the window of availabilty for the titles from a few months, to about a 1 to 2 years before vaulting them. Aladdin was the exception. It remained in print for several years cause it sold very poorly compared to other platinum titles. The idea is to drive up demand by forcing people to buy the titles for fear that they won't be able to get them for several more years. Disney tries to "reintroduce" its movies to new generations so that was the rationale for vaulting films for ten years plus. That's been changed now to seven.

[garnet]

There are lies, more lies and then statistics. Lots of places are always doing wonderfully until they shut their doors or file for bankruptcy. Not every business tells the truth, most businesses alter numbers to appease stockholders, etc. Disney wouldn't be giving away free entrance to their parks on your birthday unless sales were down. They realize in doing so you will still spend money on food and perhaps souveneirs while there, and maybe stay in one of their resorts and hopefully stay for more than just the one day. And, of course, most people won't take advantage of the offer but it's good publicity for them in terms of goodwill. But, obviously, they wouldn't do it in the first place unless they thought it was going to help their bottom line. The Tokyo park had not yet broken even last I heard, and the Paris park also does poorly compared to the USA parks.

Obviously Fantasia on Blu-Ray will enormously increase their bottom line for the year it is released because most people who own it on VHS or DVD will rebuy it, plus some will buy multiple copies for resale down the road, and some who have not bought it at all yet will buy it too. It's not a dog title by any means even if it's not your favorite Disney film. To think it's not going to sell a lot of copies is foolish. Once you have released x titles per year for sales increases, you have to keep doing it and keep topping yourself or you don't hit the same numbers you did in the past and stockholders get upset. Since not everyone out there is buying new HDTVs and upgrading equipment they already have, and this board is a VERY skewed market and population, not everyone is planning to vacation in a Disney park in the next year either. Many people are worried about whether they will have jobs in a year, whether they will get raises while their bills continue to climb, etc. Disney wouldn't be pulling this apple out of the basket or at least not yet if they didn't absolutely need to.

As to the statements that Fantasia would never be released again, this was published in trade magazines at the time, approximately 9 years ago. Just because you don't remember something being said or written doesn't mean it never happened. I was a member of the press at the time and got the films (it came out with Fantasia 2000 and a boxed set which also had a 3rd disc of extras) from Disney's press comp list and so I certainly paid attention to everything said about its release. I stand by what I originally posted.

[fighthefutureofhd]

it was not 9 years ago. it was 8 years ago to the day almost. fantasia 2000 came out in 2000. not 1999.

Originally Posted by Saturius

They definitely were limited and it was a marketing ploy. When Disney first got into DVD in 2000 for their animated classics, they released I think 6 titles under a Gold Collection banner. One of them was the Little Mermaid. They were available for a ridiculousy short amount of time. In 2001 they released Snow White in October and then vaulted it in January 2002. The same with Beauty and the Beast. Released in October 2002, vaulted in Jan 2003. You could still find them a few months after that date, but Disney stopped manufacturing the discs. With later releases like Cinderella and Lady and the Tramp, they expanded the window of availabilty for the titles from a few months, to about a 1 to 2 years before vaulting them. Aladdin was the exception. It remained in print for several years cause it sold very poorly compared to other platinum titles. The idea is to drive up demand by forcing people to buy the titles for fear that they won't be able to get them for several more years. Disney tries to "reintroduce" its movies to new generations so that was the rationale for vaulting films for ten years plus. That's been changed now to seven.

the little mermaid was never released under the gold collection on dvd that i am aware of. that is one of their premier titles. it wouldn't be put on the gold collection.

[Ernest Rister]

As to the statements that Fantasia would never be released again, this was published in trade magazines at the time, approximately 9 years ago. Just because you don't remember something being said or written doesn't mean it never happened. I was a member of the press at the time and got the films (it came out with Fantasia 2000 and a boxed set which also had a 3rd disc of extras) from Disney's press comp list and so I certainly paid attention to everything said about its release. I stand by what I originally posted.

The VHS/Laserdisc version of FANTASIA that streeted in the fall of 1991 has never been re-released. This was the 1990 50th anniversary version which used the 1947 cut of the film. It moved the intermission title card to the front of the film, cut out the bulk of the intermission, added credits to the end of the film, and was still missing certain shots from the "Pastorale" while performing extreme frame blow-ups on others to crop out the highly offensive Sunflower centaurette.

The DVD-only release in 2000 was an attempt to restore Fantasia to its original 1940 version. Longer takes of the orchestra, the complete Deems Taylor footage (though the audio from his cut footage has long since gone missing), the intermission was restored, the original opening of the film restored (dark frame, then curtain opening on the soundstage, no title card, etc.) and all the shots from the Pastorale were included (although again with frame crops/blow-ups to remove Sunflower). As in the original, there were no credits (you received a printed program with the individual credits in the original release).

So no, Disney has not, in fact, ever re-released the 1990 version of Fantasia that comprised the 1991 home video release, and they never released the 2000 version on VHS. It was DVD-only. I suspect the Blu-Ray will utilize the 2000 version of the 1940 film, and perhaps toss in the 1982 Kostal re-recording of the film as a bonus.

[garnet]

First of all I said approximately. Secondly, trade mags and industry press releases happen months and months before the public may hear about things (especially back when there was less Web presence and print magazines were more of a source of news) and so, yes, it could have been 9 years and not 8. Which version of Fantasia they release is irrelevant, I just mentioned that they once said the last time it was released on DVD that it would never come out again. However, Blu-Ray is a new format that didn't exist at the time they said it, which I also said in my first post.

[fighthefutureofhd]

it still couldn't have been 9 years since fantasia 2000 was never even released in theaters in 1999. so there would be not talk of a dvd release of fantasia 2000 yet. nor would there be a lot of talk of fantasia coming to dvd 1999. it also streeted in 2000. not 1999.

[Saturius]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

the little mermaid was never released under the gold collection on dvd that i am aware of. that is one of their premier titles. it wouldn't be put on the gold collection.

Yeah it wasn't the Gold collection. It was previously released on DVD though. The actual banner was "Limited Issue" series. It was released in 99 along with 101 Dalmations and other Disney classics. They weren't good releases though as it was Disney's first foray into DVD for their classic titles.

[dvcmember]

Originally Posted by garnet

They have not announced it coming back to DVD, but it likely will at the same time because you can't argue with a large cash influx while the parks are doing poorly.

I do have to agree with Joe Cain's remarks about the parks doing poorly, at least about Walt Disney World. Not so. In anticipation of reduced attendance due to the economic climate, Disney is preparing to postpone capital investment in the parks in terms of new attractions and is reducing costs wherever possible (one example, removing characters from certain dining venues, such as the Liberty Tree Tavern in January). The parks are currently thriving.

From my experience in November of this year, it was difficult, if not impossible, in some cases to make dining reservations thirty days in advance at several Disney restaurants in EPCOT. Having also been there in June of this year, the parks were packed.

Finally, there is simply NO WAY that the sale of any Blu-ray, no matter how highly coveted, could match or even make a dent in the alleged reduction in revenues from park sales.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by garnet

Which version of Fantasia they release is irrelevant

Its completely relevant. The 1990 version of Fantasia has never been re-released. The 1982 version has never been released on home video at all, nor the 1941 version which was cut down to 81 minutes, nor the faux wide-screen cropped version from the 50's. When you're talking about Fantasia, you're talking about a film that has been monkeyed with more than any other film in history, with different cuts, different aspect ratios, even different soundtracks. Disney has never re-released the 1991 home video release, and didn't even bother releasing the 1940 'road show' version on VHS which comprised the fall 2000 release.

Now, if you guys wanted a *real* gripe, you could turn to the home video release of Pinocchio in 1993, with ads declaring "Available for the Last Time This Century!" Disney then released Pinocchio on VHS and DVD in late 1999. Now, I know there's a dispute about 2000 being the 10th year of the decade or if its the first year of the new decade (you don't start counting at 0, you normally start at 1)...still, 1999 falls well within the confines of the 20th Century no matter how you slice it.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by EricJ

Uh, didn't we already have the VHS-era historical discussion about "Huh?--Why did they say 'Available for the last time', when it wasn't?"

Sorry Eric---I wasn't a member of the "we" in on that discussion.

Originally Posted by garnet

There are lies, more lies and then statistics. Lots of places are always doing wonderfully until they shut their doors or file for bankruptcy. Not every business tells the truth, most businesses alter numbers to appease stockholders, etc. Disney wouldn't be giving away free entrance to their parks on your birthday unless sales were down. They realize in doing so you will still spend money on food and perhaps souveneirs while there, and maybe stay in one of their resorts and hopefully stay for more than just the one day. And, of course, most people won't take advantage of the offer but it's good publicity for them in terms of goodwill. But, obviously, they wouldn't do it in the first place unless they thought it was going to help their bottom line. The Tokyo park had not yet broken even last I heard, and the Paris park also does poorly compared to the USA parks.

Obviously Fantasia on Blu-Ray will enormously increase their bottom line for the year it is released because most people who own it on VHS or DVD will rebuy it, plus some will buy multiple copies for resale down the road, and some who have not bought it at all yet will buy it too. It's not a dog title by any means even if it's not your favorite Disney film. To think it's not going to sell a lot of copies is foolish. Once you have released x titles per year for sales increases, you have to keep doing it and keep topping yourself or you don't hit the same numbers you did in the past and stockholders get upset. Since not everyone out there is buying new HDTVs and upgrading equipment they already have, and this board is a VERY skewed market and population, not everyone is planning to vacation in a Disney park in the next year either. Many people are worried about whether they will have jobs in a year, whether they will get raises while their bills continue to climb, etc. Disney wouldn't be pulling this apple out of the basket or at least not yet if they didn't absolutely need to.

As to the statements that Fantasia would never be released again, this was published in trade magazines at the time, approximately 9 years ago. Just because you don't remember something being said or written doesn't mean it never happened. I was a member of the press at the time and got the films (it came out with Fantasia 2000 and a boxed set which also had a 3rd disc of extras) from Disney's press comp list and so I certainly paid attention to everything said about its release. I stand by what I originally posted.

Yes, Fantasia will sell plenty of copies---I'd never suggest otherwise. It's far and away my favorite Disney film and one of the greatest films of all time, in my opinion. But I don't see the parks' performance as playing a role in their decision to re-release it. Disney sells to sell again like no other studio; they've been working re-releases since 1944, seven years after the initial run of Snow White, and Fantasia is a masterpiece, an icon deeply embedded on our popular culture, and one of the most recognizable and valuable properties in the catalog. Regardless of what they may have SAID, locking it away forever would be an incredibly boneheaded move, besides being antithetical to their release practices. I can understand that the threat of perma-vaulting might have seemed legitimate after the 50th Anniversary VHS release, but why believe the story the second time around? I believe we'd see them bury The Black Cauldron---or even let go of Song of the South---before they'd ever carbon-freeze Fantasia.

[AaronSCH]

My rule of thumb for Disney is this: I act with the belief that they will never be released again. I won't part with the previous release or format until the new one is proven to be superior in a marked way.

When "Pinocchio" is released on Blu-ray in March, I will probably take the day off to celebrate and enjoy it all over again.