Electrical Info

[solarrdadd]

Howdy, I am a licensed Master Electrician and I will tell you that sags & surges are real and they are a real threat to your electronic equipment. I paid good money, like the rest of you I'm sure for my Home Theatre gear. I know that it needs to be protected. I have three forms of protection for my equipment, 1) I installed a dedicated 20amp 120volt circuit for my stuff with #12awg from the breaker panel. 2) I have an APC 1500VA UPS with AVR plugged into that. 3) I have an APC Surge Suppression plug strip plugged into the UPS and all of my equipment goes into the strip. Now the strip might be viewed as overkill but no, there are not enough receptacles in my UPS so i use the strip for power distribution. i also have my cable and Dish network boxes coax going through it as well as my ethernet that goes to a hub for my network enabled components. I can't tell you how many times people have had either a lightning strike, surge or sage that have lasted more than 3 seconds destroy their equipment. You spend so much money on these things and get CHEAP little plug strips. most of the time this is due to ignorance in the belief that this is enough, well, IT'S NOT! All of my equipment is well protected with all three forms mentioned. I had a good friend who lost a plasma and a blu-ray player both connected with a $15 plug strip called a Surge Protector. Spending a couple of Hundred dollars on REAL protection will not only protect your equipment from electrical faults from both nature and the power utility it will also extend the life of your equipment by giving it good clean power. Trust me on this, I'm a professional and this is almost 30 years talking to you!

[DiverSpear]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

Howdy, I am a licensed Master Electrician and I will tell you that sags & surges are real and they are a real threat to your electronic equipment. I paid good money, like the rest of you I'm sure for my Home Theatre gear. I know that it needs to be protected. I have three forms of protection for my equipment, 1) I installed a dedicated 20amp 120volt circuit for my stuff with #12awg from the breaker panel. 2) I have an APC 1500VA UPS with AVR plugged into that. 3) I have an APC Surge Suppression plug strip plugged into the UPS and all of my equipment goes into the strip. Now the strip might be viewed as overkill but no, there are not enough receptacles in my UPS so i use the strip for power distribution. i also have my cable and Dish network boxes coax going through it as well as my ethernet that goes to a hub for my network enabled components. I can't tell you how many times people have had either a lightning strike, surge or sage that have lasted more than 3 seconds destroy their equipment. You spend so much money on these things and get CHEAP little plug strips. most of the time this is due to ignorance in the belief that this is enough, well, IT'S NOT! All of my equipment is well protected with all three forms mentioned. I had a good friend who lost a plasma and a blu-ray player both connected with a $15 plug strip called a Surge Protector. Spending a couple of Hundred dollars on REAL protection will not only protect your equipment from electrical faults from both nature and the power utility it will also extend the life of your equipment by giving it good clean power. Trust me on this, I'm a professional and this is almost 30 years talking to you!

It's nice to have another Electrician on the forum other than myself. Nice to meet.

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by DiverSpear

It's nice to have another Electrician on the forum other than myself. Nice to meet.

I'd imagine being an electrician on a Blu-ray site your inbox stays pretty full. Maybe he could split the load. Or let you two have your own Q&A thread like the insiders.

I've put off my theater re-build until after the first of the year. I may have a question or 50 for you in a few weeks.

[ryandubbz]

Wow i guess i need a better protector

[DragonSarc]

solarrdadd or any body is it ok to put an extention cord from my tv to my power conditioner id say the tv is about 15 - 20 feet away from my av rack will that defeat the pourpose? thanks

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by DragonSarc

solarrdadd or any body is it ok to put an extention cord from my tv to my power conditioner id say the tv is about 15 - 20 feet away from my av rack will that defeat the pourpose? thanks

while i usually don't recommend extension cords, i know that sometimes it's a necessary evil; you would be for the most part, ok in this instance. make sure it's at least #14awg size cord (do not use 16 or 18awg as they are really too small and i don't recommend them. don't go by the gauge on your tv's power cord either use the #14awg like i recommend and make sure it's 3 prong even if your tv is only 2 prong it will be hard for you to find a 2 prong 14awg extension cord anyway!) you should be fine. the tv is not a real high power appliance and at that distance you don't have to worry about voltage drop. just make sure it's plugged all the way into the tv cord and place it where it won't be a trip hazard.

best of luck, hope this helps!

[DragonSarc]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

while i usually don't recommend extension cords, i know that sometimes it's a necessary evil; you would be for the most part, ok in this instance. make sure it's at least #14awg size cord (do not use 16 or 18awg as they are really too small and i don't recommend them. don't go by the gauge on your tv's power cord either use the #14awg like i recommend and make sure it's 3 prong even if your tv is only 2 prong it will be hard for you to find a 2 prong 14awg extension cord anyway!) you should be fine. the tv is not a real high power appliance and at that distance you don't have to worry about voltage drop. just make sure it's plugged all the way into the tv cord and place it where it won't be a trip hazard.

best of luck, hope this helps!

sweet thanks Solardadd

[Purplegrasshopper]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

1) I installed a dedicated 20amp 120volt circuit for my stuff with #12awg from the breaker panel.

Hello...I have some questions about this. I'm getting ready to install a complete home theater (TV, speakers, sub, receiver, PS3, amp, bass shakers, power conditioner, the whole nine yards).

1. My first question is on the amperage. I had the inclination to devote an entire circuit breaker for all of my equipment instead of using an existing power outlet that is on the same circuit with many other outlets, lights, etc. If I remember correctly, all of the breakers I saw on my panel were 15amp. Why did you use a 20amp breaker? Is there some advantage to the 20amp vs the 15amp?

2. I'm still learning about wire gauges, and was just curious as to why you went with 12awg vs a higher gauge?

3. My TV will be mounted on the wall far away from the rest of the equipment - this can't be avoided. So I will have an equipment rack with all of my stuff, and the TV will be on the other side of the room. In order to get power, ethernet cable, and a HDMI cable to it, I will need to run about 30 feet of cable/wire. The HDMI and ethernet cables are easy...I'll just buy really long cables to run inside the wall. I'm not quite sure how to get power to the TV though. If I'm going to invest in a power conditioner, I obviously want the TV to be powered through the conditioner. But how do I get power from the conditioner to my TV that is mounted on the wall 30 feet away? Can I just use a standard extention cord between the two and run that inside the wall? Also, I don't just want a hole in the wall with the power cord going from the conditioner, into the wall, and running to the TV. How do you recommend I make it nice and clean?

Thanks!

[guitarist155]

Originally Posted by Purplegrasshopper

Hello...I have some questions about this. I'm getting ready to install a complete home theater (TV, speakers, sub, receiver, PS3, amp, bass shakers, power conditioner, the whole nine yards).

1. My first question is on the amperage. I had the inclination to devote an entire circuit breaker for all of my equipment instead of using an existing power outlet that is on the same circuit with many other outlets, lights, etc. If I remember correctly, all of the breakers I saw on my panel were 15amp. Why did you use a 20amp breaker? Is there some advantage to the 20amp vs the 15amp?

2. I'm still learning about wire gauges, and was just curious as to why you went with 12awg vs a higher gauge?

3. My TV will be mounted on the wall far away from the rest of the equipment - this can't be avoided. So I will have an equipment rack with all of my stuff, and the TV will be on the other side of the room. In order to get power, ethernet cable, and a HDMI cable to it, I will need to run about 30 feet of cable/wire. The HDMI and ethernet cables are easy...I'll just buy really long cables to run inside the wall. I'm not quite sure how to get power to the TV though. If I'm going to invest in a power conditioner, I obviously want the TV to be powered through the conditioner. But how do I get power from the conditioner to my TV that is mounted on the wall 30 feet away? Can I just use a standard extention cord between the two and run that inside the wall? Also, I don't just want a hole in the wall with the power cord going from the conditioner, into the wall, and running to the TV. How do you recommend I make it nice and clean?

Thanks!

nothing can exceed the main panel breaker so the only advantage you get is being able to run more things on that outlet/circuit without tripping the breaker. The breaker is there to keep you from over loading the outlet and in-wall wiring, If you have a 20a breaker you should have an outlet and wire that are rated 20a and above, that way if you over load the outlet or wire, instead of it overheating and catching fire, the breaker will trip.

as to why you would want to run a thicker ( lower gauge ) wire ,the lower the number the thicker the wire and the more current it can handle. you want to run around 12 in most cases, for short 15a runs under 100ft 14ga should be ok, for longer or higher amp runs I say 12 and up. better safe than sorry. but ALWAYS CHECK THE WIRES RATING PER FOOT. if you are unsure about any of this HIGHER A GOOD ELECTRICIAN. when putting breakers in a box, unless you have the meter pulled, the circuit is live 240v and it will kill you if you don't know what your doing or make a mistake. the main box is not something to be played around with. I don't mean to come across as rude but this can be a matter of life and death.

and NO you can not use a standard extension cord inside a wall, it has to be in-wall rated wiring with a certain type of wall jack to be to code. http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/home.html

[Purplegrasshopper]

Originally Posted by guitarist155

and NO you can not use a standard extension cord inside a wall, it has to be in-wall rated wiring with a certain type of wall jack to be to code. http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/home.html

Thanks for the good info, especially that stuff about messing around with the main panel. But regarding your comment I quoted above, I'm unclear then on how to get power to my TV via the power conditioner given my situation I described. (TV is 30 feet away from the power conditioner)

[DiverSpear]

Originally Posted by Purplegrasshopper

Thanks for the good info, especially that stuff about messing around with the main panel. But regarding your comment I quoted above, I'm unclear then on how to get power to my TV via the power conditioner given my situation I described. (TV is 30 feet away from the power conditioner)

Hire an Electrician he will run the power and tell him you need inlet and outlet type receptacle; or buy another power conditioner just for your TV.

[guitarist155]

i was thinking about a chart like this with a division to get amps per foot:

AWG dia circ open cable ft/lb ohms/
mils mils air A Amp bare 1000'

10 101.9 10380 55 33 31.82 1.018
12 80.8 6530 41 23 50.59 1.619
14 64.1 4107 32 17 80.44 2.575

but that only works with an open wire in open air.

didn't think about how it was written on the reel, I'm always thinking in terms of equations, so I usually end up with an odd way of explaining

but the capacity per foot that I am referring to is the ampacity value chart in the nec which when used in an equation give you the max amps per foot dependent on a set percentage voltage drop.

As for 150ft upsize rule. I have never believed in this, with 14 gauge wire on a 120vac circuit max load 15 amps. the voltage drop will start to exceed 3% after only 45ft roughly. (using the ampacity values in Section of 310-15 of the NEC) my suggestion to use 12ga wire is more for the performance of the equipment and avoiding load dependent voltage sag.

[DiverSpear]

Originally Posted by guitarist155

nothing can exceed the main panel breaker so the only advantage you get is being able to run more things on that outlet/circuit without tripping the breaker. The breaker is there to keep you from over loading the outlet and in-wall wiring, If you have a 20a breaker you should have an outlet and wire that are rated 20a and above, that way if you over load the outlet or wire, instead of it overheating and catching fire, the breaker will trip.

as to why you would want to run a thicker ( lower gauge ) wire ,the lower the number the thicker the wire and the more current it can handle. you want to run around 12 in most cases, for short 15a runs under 100ft 14ga should be ok, for longer or higher amp runs I say 12 and up. better safe than sorry. but ALWAYS CHECK THE WIRES RATING PER FOOT. if you are unsure about any of this HIGHER A GOOD ELECTRICIAN. when putting breakers in a box, unless you have the meter pulled, the circuit is live 240v and it will kill you if you don't know what your doing or make a mistake. the main box is not something to be played around with. I don't mean to come across as rude but this can be a matter of life and death.

and NO you can not use a standard extension cord inside a wall, it has to be in-wall rated wiring with a certain type of wall jack to be to code. http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/home.html

First off a dedicated ckt for your HT gear is a good idea. Receptacles in residential wiring will have lighting loads on them. If the lighting is electronic your equipment will see the harmonics and cause funny things such as subs popping when the lights turn off.

The NEC mandates 14awg for 15A ckt, 12awg for 20A and 10AWG for 30A. You generally only have to upsize your wire for runs over 150' then you do voltage drop calculations to find the wire size, you should upsize based on temperature corrections if you want to be 100% correct. The formulas and charts are in the NEC. Which is why all power wiring should be done by a licensed Electrician.

You can put 15A rated receptacles on a 20A ckt provided there are more than one on the same yoke and you do not exceed 80%. The breaker protects the wire nothing else.

There is no such thing as "ratings per foot", there is ohms/1000ft (resistance of the wire).

Gentlemen and Ladies if you are not licensed or qualified stay out of the power end of your HT. I've seen a rash of fires lately because of homeowner DIY work.

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by Purplegrasshopper

Hello...I have some questions about this. I'm getting ready to install a complete home theater (TV, speakers, sub, receiver, PS3, amp, bass shakers, power conditioner, the whole nine yards).

1. My first question is on the amperage. I had the inclination to devote an entire circuit breaker for all of my equipment instead of using an existing power outlet that is on the same circuit with many other outlets, lights, etc. If I remember correctly, all of the breakers I saw on my panel were 15amp. Why did you use a 20amp breaker? Is there some advantage to the 20amp vs the 15amp?

2. I'm still learning about wire gauges, and was just curious as to why you went with 12awg vs a higher gauge?

3. My TV will be mounted on the wall far away from the rest of the equipment - this can't be avoided. So I will have an equipment rack with all of my stuff, and the TV will be on the other side of the room. In order to get power, ethernet cable, and a HDMI cable to it, I will need to run about 30 feet of cable/wire. The HDMI and ethernet cables are easy...I'll just buy really long cables to run inside the wall. I'm not quite sure how to get power to the TV though. If I'm going to invest in a power conditioner, I obviously want the TV to be powered through the conditioner. But how do I get power from the conditioner to my TV that is mounted on the wall 30 feet away? Can I just use a standard extention cord between the two and run that inside the wall? Also, I don't just want a hole in the wall with the power cord going from the conditioner, into the wall, and running to the TV. How do you recommend I make it nice and clean?

Thanks!

howdy, i'll do my best to answer all of your questions, here we go:

1)the breakers in your house panel are rated at 15amps because they are the most standard general purpose circuit sizes for home/apartment use. in new/modern house wiring (please don't be offended) you will find 20a circuits in areas like the kitchen on countertops for appliances, for dishwashers, sump pumps, those devices require more power and in most cases are "dedicated" for use to the load plugged into it not shared by any other device. a 20amp 120v circuit will give you 2400watts of power to use. you will need to use a 120v 20amp rated outlet (receptacle) to get the full rating usage, don't use a standard 15amp receptacle. when picking this up read the rating carefully, it should say 125v 20a (the voltage rating is nominal) you will also need a 20amp circuit breaker in your panel.
2)wire gauge for the above work should be #12awg (American Wire Gauge) this size wire is UL listed to handle the heat effect given off by a 20amp circuit when loaded. if you were running a 15amp circuit you would only need a #14awg size conductor (wire) so, if you live in an area that allows the use of romex wire they you will need a roll of 12/2 cable, if you have to use metal armor cable it will be the same; check with your local codes. in most cases if you have romex in the house already, then romex is fine.
3) google "powerbridge" and you will find a system that will allow you to send conditioned power from your voltage conditioner or your UPS up to your wall mounted TV and do it properly with full NEC compliance. I have installed this many times for people who have wall mounted units. it is explained on the site what is what and how to do the install. the devices also come with instructions.

on a side note for your audio/video cables that you are going to run in the wall. make sure that they are rated for such. they should have a rating of CL2 or CL3 and it should say that on the packaging &/or on the cable itself. I recommend buying your cables from monoprice.com they have a wide range of a/v cables that are CL2 or 3 rated.

if i can be of any further help, please let me know, i love to chat!

[Blu_Ray_Fan]

Very nice thread so far!

As you can see by my sig, I have 2 20 amp circuits running from my breaker box to my HT. I installed a double outlet (2 standard outlets side-by-side (a total of 4 outlets)). I really don't need this power now, but may in the future. I had a problem "popping" the 15 amp breaker when watching movies. So decided as long as I was cutting holes, might as well only do it once! I have had no more problems since.

[gamer2600]

I am by no means an electrical expert but I will try and explain my situation/thoughts. I currently live in a townhome and I have a finished basement. When I flip the 15amp breaker to off everything in my basement shuts down, TV, receiver, playstation 3, xbox 360, surge protector, wii, modem, recessed lighting in ceiling, everything. I am assuming this is all on one breaker.

I have never had anything trip or whatever when watching movies, listening to music, whatever. I am thinking about getting a separate power amp and receivers or pre amp. I know that this will probably use a lot more power consumption. Do you think the 15amp will be enough? or will I most likely have problems?

Also as far as I can see I don't have any slots left to add more breakers...the box is full. I do have some 20 amp breakers going to kitchen, etc.

What are some of my options...I know I don't have a problem yet just wondering if anyone sees a potential problem or unsafe hookup. Thanks.

[DiverSpear]

Depending on the amp you shouldn't have any problems. The 20A ckts labeled kitchen can not be used for anything else they are dedicated to the kitchen per the NEC. The lighting would be an issue I would address, if yo are not going to run dimmers switch them to flourescent and that will give you a little more room to play. After you and the pre/pro and amp and you find you are tripping breakers, you might have to call an electrician to install a sub panel. A sub panel is not a project for a DIYer.

[rarredoa]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

Howdy, I am a licensed Master Electrician and I will tell you that sags & surges are real and they are a real threat to your electronic equipment. I paid good money, like the rest of you I'm sure for my Home Theatre gear. I know that it needs to be protected. I have three forms of protection for my equipment, 1) I installed a dedicated 20amp 120volt circuit for my stuff with #12awg from the breaker panel. 2) I have an APC 1500VA UPS with AVR plugged into that. 3) I have an APC Surge Suppression plug strip plugged into the UPS and all of my equipment goes into the strip. Now the strip might be viewed as overkill but no, there are not enough receptacles in my UPS so i use the strip for power distribution. i also have my cable and Dish network boxes coax going through it as well as my ethernet that goes to a hub for my network enabled components. I can't tell you how many times people have had either a lightning strike, surge or sage that have lasted more than 3 seconds destroy their equipment. You spend so much money on these things and get CHEAP little plug strips. most of the time this is due to ignorance in the belief that this is enough, well, IT'S NOT! All of my equipment is well protected with all three forms mentioned. I had a good friend who lost a plasma and a blu-ray player both connected with a $15 plug strip called a Surge Protector. Spending a couple of Hundred dollars on REAL protection will not only protect your equipment from electrical faults from both nature and the power utility it will also extend the life of your equipment by giving it good clean power. Trust me on this, I'm a professional and this is almost 30 years talking to you!

Right on solardad, as a licensed electrical PE for a major utility, I believe that adequate protection at the customer-level is seriously underappreciated. That being said, I am ashamed to say that I am powering my equipment with a less-than-adequate surge protector. How much power consumption have you calculated for all your gear? Did you give yourself a 20% slack when you purchased your UPS?

Since my residence is a rental, I'll have to speak to my landlord about having him run a dedicated feeder so that I can power my UPS from it.

[86surf]

Those of you haven't heard my setup was zapped by lightning.

If you are building or in the process of building this is some good info for all.
It doesn't matter new your house is it is good to be protected from electrical line surges such as switching or lightning.

I am going to put in a line surge protector right at the electrical box.
Something similar to this: http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Levito...otector/p.aspx
Also the other option is this: http://www.v-blox.com/surge_protection

Also the key in every setup everything must be grounded. Including your cable tv into your house. They make line isolators for cable tv as well.
:http://www.smarthome.com/4874/1-Line...r-IG1CM/p.aspx

Mine wasn't grounded it is likely the first source of the surge that destroyed the projector and receiver and cable box.

[Allforce]

How difficult is that to install after the fact? Is it a do-it-yourself type thing or am I bringing in my electrician again to do it?