Calibration Tales

[Blu-Dog]

I've heard some astounding tales about how calibration of televisions is required to get the optimum picture. Prices of $300 to $400 are tossed around, along with impassioned claims about how the picture is so much better, etc.

This is usually followed up by earnest advice to call up some ISF cowboy, who will be coming soon to your area, just fixing up all the "crappy TV image" problems of new HDTV owners.

It is also interesting to note that this whole cacaphony is a recent event in this forum; I get the distinct impression that it's a sales job.

Calibration is simply a baseline adjustment to agreed-upon specifications. The controls accessible to any television owner will allow you to reach this same baseline. Unless the set is damaged or malfunctioning, any set is capable of a brilliant image, and personal preference is as good as any pre-determined setting.

Anything can be calibrated. An oven; a radio tuner; a dimmer switch for an incandescent bulb. Anything.

It won't make food taste better, or a radio station come in more clearly, or a light any better to read by. It's simply an adjustment.

It's DEFINITELY not worth hundreds of dollars. HDTV owners would be much better served buying Blu-Ray movies, or paying the cable bill for six months.

This level of disinformation is confusing to folks who come here, looking for advice on how to spend the thousands of dollars for high-tech gear - who are then told that it must immediately be serviced, or their investment is useless. I'm stunned that this kind of nonsense has gone basically unchallenged.

The sole value of calibrating a set is to establish baseline settings from which personal adjustments will give known, objective results. For the vast majority of folks, these settings will differ. Settings are based on:

- Media source (Cable, OTA, SDDVD, Blu, game unit, etc.)
- Media content (Film with all the different typs of photography, TV shows, even game modes)
- Media connection (HDMI, component cable, coax connection, etc.)
- Ambient light (Bright area, dim area, room lighting and type, etc.)
- Viewing distance and angle (ideal distance and angle, non-ideal, etc.)
- Power source (clean filtered power, unclean power)
Environmental conditions (differences in heat and cold, dust, etc.)

While calibration may be needed after servicing, a new, quality HDTV is factory preset with adjustments close enough to key in variations well within the bands of tolerance. There is no "voodoo" to it. Simple pre-sets may not be optimum; but all can be dialed in to the user's preference, which may change based on all of the conditions seen above.

It's also obvious to anyone who understands electronics that any calibration setting can "drift" over time. No setting is set in stone - and every factor listed above can change over time. There is no telling how long any setting will hold, and it may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

At this point, defenders of this ISF calibration stuff are generally saying, "well, I spent $400, and I say it looks better" are simply making noise. If anyone prefers to have an accurate baseline calibration, that's fine. It's not necessary; you can paint your screen purple, if that's what you want to do.

But to tell people who are trying to put together the huge sums it takes to by HDTV gear that their money is wasted if they don't bring in some "expert" (and I have huge doubts about that, don't get me started) to twiddle with settings, using a cheap lightmeter, and then walk off with enough money to start a respectable Blu library, is very, very bad advice.

To all considering buying a set: read the reviews, look at it in a store, and then buy it where the price is best. You will definitely enjoy it, and you don't need a serviceman until, with your untrained eyes, you know the thing is definitely malfunctioning.

[canuckle]

Well, this is certainly going to be interesting

Def. subscribing to this thread.

[crackinhedz]

I disagree with your entire post.

especially this:

The controls accessible to any television owner will allow you to reach this same baseline.

its quite obvious you are not very informed on the subject, but your opinion is your opinion. Thanks.

[crackinhedz]

a new, quality HDTV is factory preset with adjustments close enough to key in variations well within the bands of tolerance.

[brett_day]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

To all considering buying a set: read the reviews, look at it in a store, and then buy it where the price is best. You will definitely enjoy it

lol

yes because the burn your retina's out settings they have the tv's on at the stores are a true representation of HD quality picture because it is brighter than the sun

[VinnAY]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I've heard some astounding tales about how calibration of televisions is required to get the optimum picture. Prices of $300 to $400 are tossed around, along with impassioned claims about how the picture is so much better, etc.

This is usually followed up by earnest advice to call up some ISF cowboy, who will be coming soon to your area, just fixing up all the "crappy TV image" problems of new HDTV owners.

It is also interesting to note that this whole cacaphony is a recent event in this forum; I get the distinct impression that it's a sales job.

Calibration is simply a baseline adjustment to agreed-upon specifications. The controls accessible to any television owner will allow you to reach this same baseline. Unless the set is damaged or malfunctioning, any set is capable of a brilliant image, and personal preference is as good as any pre-determined setting.

Anything can be calibrated. An oven; a radio tuner; a dimmer switch for an incandescent bulb. Anything.

It won't make food taste better, or a radio station come in more clearly, or a light any better to read by. It's simply an adjustment.

It's DEFINITELY not worth hundreds of dollars. HDTV owners would be much better served buying Blu-Ray movies, or paying the cable bill for six months.

This level of disinformation is confusing to folks who come here, looking for advice on how to spend the thousands of dollars for high-tech gear - who are then told that it must immediately be serviced, or their investment is useless. I'm stunned that this kind of nonsense has gone basically unchallenged.

The sole value of calibrating a set is to establish baseline settings from which personal adjustments will give known, objective results. For the vast majority of folks, these settings will differ. Settings are based on:

- Media source (Cable, OTA, SDDVD, Blu, game unit, etc.)
- Media content (Film with all the different typs of photography, TV shows, even game modes)
- Media connection (HDMI, component cable, coax connection, etc.)
- Ambient light (Bright area, dim area, room lighting and type, etc.)
- Viewing distance and angle (ideal distance and angle, non-ideal, etc.)
- Power source (clean filtered power, unclean power)
Environmental conditions (differences in heat and cold, dust, etc.)

While calibration may be needed after servicing, a new, quality HDTV is factory preset with adjustments close enough to key in variations well within the bands of tolerance. There is no "voodoo" to it. Simple pre-sets may not be optimum; but all can be dialed in to the user's preference, which may change based on all of the conditions seen above.

It's also obvious to anyone who understands electronics that any calibration setting can "drift" over time. No setting is set in stone - and every factor listed above can change over time. There is no telling how long any setting will hold, and it may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

At this point, defenders of this ISF calibration stuff are generally saying, "well, I spent $400, and I say it looks better" are simply making noise. If anyone prefers to have an accurate baseline calibration, that's fine. It's not necessary; you can paint your screen purple, if that's what you want to do.

But to tell people who are trying to put together the huge sums it takes to by HDTV gear that their money is wasted if they don't bring in some "expert" (and I have huge doubts about that, don't get me started) to twiddle with settings, using a cheap lightmeter, and then walk off with enough money to start a respectable Blu library, is very, very bad advice.

To all considering buying a set: read the reviews, look at it in a store, and then buy it where the price is best. You will definitely enjoy it, and you don't need a serviceman until, with your untrained eyes, you know the thing is definitely malfunctioning.

I've challenged it numerous times, but not to the degree that you have! I've also voiced myself about:

Breaking in a plasma for 100 hours - Total BS

Breaking in speakers - More Total BS




Have fun with it but you're going get flamed big time for your opinion.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

I disagree with your entire post.

especially this:



its quite obvious you are not very informed on the subject, but your opinion is your opinion. Thanks.

I read your sticky, an excellent start to an interesting thread, and it appears that you agree with me wholeheartedly.

Another way is to use a Calibration DVD. This is a very simple way to "do it yourself" and is very inexpensive compared to an ISF calibration. Although it is not as thorough and precise as the ISF, it can be very beneficial to each and every television. There are a couple of different calibration dvd's out there, but two of the most popular are Digital Video Essentials and AVIA Guide to Home Theater. You could potentially save yourself money in the long run by owning a calibration DVD, not to mention producing a much better looking picture. NOTE: The DVD versions will help you adjust for standard definition but may not be ideal with an HD source.

You're welcome.

[gearyt]

I have my head covered,,, Crack, let me know when it is safe

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

So, when I go buy a Pioneer Kuro, I'm getting a piece of junk?

[gearyt]

Originally Posted by VinnAY

I've challenged it numerous times, but not to the degree that you have! I've also voiced myself about:

Breaking in a plasma for 100 hours - Total BS

Breaking in speakers - More Total BS

you forgot breaking in

speaker wires
power cables

etc

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by gearyt

you forgot breaking in

speaker wires
power cables

etc

I break in subwoofers. By playing the heck out of them. They sound better after they're broken in. I can prove it.

The fact that I connect a bigger amp has nothing to do with it, I swear.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by gearyt

I have my head covered,,, Crack, let me know when it is safe

Let me know, too...he doesn't shoot often, but he shoots straight, which is definitely more dangerous.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

and it appears that you agree with me wholeheartedly.

read into that a little more carefully:

Another way is to use a Calibration DVD. This is a very simple way to "do it yourself" and is very inexpensive compared to an ISF calibration. Although it is not as thorough and precise as the ISF, it can be very beneficial to each and every television.

...using a calibration disc gets the owner to take his TV off the torch mode factory presets.



Simple fact that you believe the average user can adjust his/her settings to near perfection disqualifies the entire statement.

For one, some manufacturers do not offer a selectable option for each and every individual setting that is used to produce the picture.

Second, the critical settings are often found in the Service Menu. Which the average user should NEVER go into to mess around with.



Third...

Have you ever had a TV professionally calibrated before?

[reallyagi]

All I can say is that I calibrated my TV myself, using a colorimeter and special software, and the resulting image is light years different than any factory preset on my set. Personal preference is mumbo jumbo, nobody can calibrate a TV by eye alone. Stop crying, you don't have to pay $400, just do it yourself.

[Semp1]

if you read the OP post he understands that ISF calibration brings out colors that's based on a service menu's color temperature which on many newer tv's is more and more accurate out of the box. The op also states if you read it carefully that the factory pre-sets have enough setting to adjust your set close enough to be tolerable to save yourself $400. Take his opinion for what it's worth I personaaly fully agree with him and feel that isf calibration while slightly better than an eye balled non service menu calibrated set in my opinion is not that much better than a set that you mess around with your self. The whole point of isf calibration is to go into the service menu and adjust the color temperature to accurate degree, every thing else is done based on agreed opinion.

[reallyagi]

And this theory on personal taste is BS!!! There is a target gamma or else ITS WRONG?? Again, save yourself the money and do it yourself.
Ask any blu-ray reviewer if their sets are calibrated, if not their video reviews are worthless.

[JR8300]

Originally Posted by reallyagi

And this theory on personal taste is BS!!! There is a target gamma or else ITS WRONG?? Again, save yourself the money and do it yourself.
Ask any blu-ray reviewer if their sets are calibrated, if not their video reviews are worthless.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying...I have never charged someone $400 for a calibration. I always recommend that people buy their own meter and do it themselves...

Did you pick up the Eye-one LT?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...using a calibration disc gets the owner to take his TV off the torch mode factory presets.

OK, granted. But anyone can do that.

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...Simple fact that you believe the average user can adjust his/her settings to near perfection disqualifies the entire statement.

WHOA hold on there, Tex...

There is no such thing as "near perfection", as I noted in my post. Remember all the factors I mentioned that affect the picture? Please tell me that you don't think there is "near perfection" in a cable signal, OTA broadcast, or game box hooked up with component cables...

They'll all look different, and viewers will have different preferences for each. Though they probably won't adjust for them.

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

For one, some manufacturers do not offer a selectable option for each and every individual setting that is used to produce the picture.

Definitely not, on the low end. But then, I'm sure you're not advising that someone buying a $600 Dynex pay $400 for professional calibration.

On the higher end, those settings are adjustable.

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...Second, the critical settings are often found in the Service Menu. Which the average user should NEVER go into to mess around with.

Absolutely, 100% agreed. Those settings are for baseline adjustments for major components after service-bench level parts replacement. User settings are "tweaks" for those baseline adjustments, I think we can agree. And on quality equipment (Sony, Samsung, Pioneer, Sharp Aquos, LG high end, you name it) those are pretty broad-ranged tweaks, wouldn't you say?

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

...Third...

Have you ever had a TV professionally calibrated before?

Family member bought the Best Buy calibration, for the same set I have (his is the XBR 46", versus my 52", otherwise the same). The results were fantastic.

It looked just as good as mine.

Which has been adjusted (not calibrated beforehand...simply adjusted) by my own amateurish hands.

Look, here's my beef. I simply won't agree that quality televisions are so far off the baseline that it takes a 10% upcharge in cost for a new HDTV owner to get what he paid for; that is a stunning indictment of the quality and engineering that goes into decent equipment. It simply is not borne out by my experience, or people who, like me, are extremely critical of expensive electronics.

I know that quality varies by manufacturer, and even model line; I also concede that production line quality can vary, even vary widely. But it's simply going to retard adoption of HD video when people who aren't as technical as we are get the impression that a service must be performed that is 10% to 20% the price of their device, just to get it to the point where it looks good. That does not match facts in the real world, even for videophiles.

I will also state that if this is a real need, sets need to come with light meters and safe user adjustments to get this process done. A TV serviceman can come out and fix my set for less than $200. But simply to adjust it costs two or three times that much? This makes no sense.

I spent my time in the military operating and maintaining radar gear, and the first decade of my working career working in a very well known research laboratory, constantly calibrating test equipment of all kinds. The need for calibration of equipment is obvious to me. I also know the difference between baseline calibration, and adjustment, and the effects of calibration drift.

Consumer equipment generally requires far less tolerance of calibration error than the stuff I used then, though some of the consumer electronics I see now are far more reliable than others. If we want to talk calibration, we must also discuss the maintenance and test cycle for this stuff - something I've not heard once in any of these threads.

I've actually performed calibration, on some pretty exotic stuff. I don't do it on my Sony sets; there's no need.

Have you ever done calibration on electronics, personally?

[reallyagi]

Originally Posted by JR8300

Did you pick up the Eye-one LT?

I hear that's the best one, but the Spyder Pro was available from my work at no cost (I borrowed it )

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by reallyagi

All I can say is that I calibrated my TV myself, using a colorimeter and special software, and the resulting image is light years different than any factory preset on my set. Personal preference is mumbo jumbo, nobody can calibrate a TV by eye alone. Stop crying, you don't have to pay $400, just do it yourself.

Were you crying before you calibrated your set?

I hope not.