Upgrade... Really?

[Sammy]

I auditioned a Denon 3808 (2309 and 2808 too) and Pioneer 1900 at BB today. To tell you the truth I really could not hear enough of a difference to justify throwing down a large bill to upgrade from what I've got now. They played "House of Flying Daggars" for me through these units and maybe that's the issue as it is only DD 5.1? What movie out of my collection would be a good one to bring along to audition these units? "The Doors"? "3:10 to Yuma"?

I am really supprised that BB didn't have a 7.1 track in the Magnolia Theater Room to sell the unit with. As it was it did not impress me as my current unit was one of Sony's best in its day.

[Driver_King]

What do you mean "upgrade"? Do you mean HD audio?

[Sammy]

Yup. My receiver is a dts 5.1 that sounds pretty dam good as it is. My HT room doubles as my family room and is 18'x18'x9'. My player sends a lossy (I think) via optical to the receiver as that was the way in the day. But now it's lossless via HDMI or analog (no analog inputs on the O.S. receiver either). Like I say it sounds really good as it is... As good as what I auditioned today. Maybe the HT room at BB is wired wrong; maybe they didn't present a top quality sound track either. It didn't really sound any better. Not $1000 better anyway.

[Sammy]

Here's what it says in the manual for my BD-P2500, keeping in mind that this was before Samsung released f/w ver 2.4 which allows the player to decode dts MA. I have it set to Bitstream (Audiophile) using an optical connections at this time. Maybe I should be using Bitstream (re-encode)? I'll give that a try with the doors tonight and then go to BB and play it there tomorrow.

PCM
Decodes Primary, Secondary
and Effect audio streams
together into PCM audio.
You can enjoy Primary,
Secondary and Effect audio
together.
You can also enjoy Dolby
TrueHD sound even if your
receiver cannot decode Dolby
TrueHD.
You cannot hear DTS-HD Master
Audio sound with this setting
even if you have an HDMI 1.3
receiver which has DTS-HD
Master Audio decoding
capability.
Recommended choice if you
have an HDMI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2
receiver which cannot decode
DTS-HD Master Audio.
Also recommended if you are
using an optical cable for audio
and your receiver cannot decode
Dolby Digital or DTS.

Bitstream
(Re-encode)
Decodes Primary, Secondary
and Effect audio streams
together into PCM audio, then
re-encodes the PCM audio into
DTS bitstream.
You can enjoy Primary,
Secondary and Effect audio
together.
Audio quality may be lower than
PCM or Bitstream (Audiophile)
setups.
Recommended choice if you
don’t have an HDMI supported
receiver, but have a receiver with
an Optical input that can decode
DTS.

Bitstream
(Audiophile)
Outputs only the Primary audio
soundtrack (main soundtrack
of the movie) so that your
receiver can decode the audio
bitstream.
You can enjoy DTS-HD Master
Audio sound if you have HDMI
1.3 receiver which has DTSHD
Master Audio decoding
capability.
You will not hear Secondary and
Effect audio.
Recommended choice if you
have an HDMI 1.3 receiver
which has DTS-HD Master Audio
decoding capability.

[Opips2]

get music

[zweet77]

If it is anything like the best buys around me its not a good place to audition anything tv's included every thing is poorly calibrated and most off the staff is really not that knowledgable you should hear a great differnce between uncompressed and lossless sound and dolby 5.1.

By the way House of flying daggers has a uncompressed pcm track that is really good.The drum dance near the beginning of the movie is one of the best sounding immersive scenes I have heard, listening to that should sell you on hidef audio

[zweet77]

Originally Posted by Sammy

Here's what it says in the manual for my BD-P2500, keeping in mind that this was before Samsung released f/w ver 2.4 which allows the player to decode dts MA. I have it set to Bitstream (Audiophile) using an optical connections at this time. Maybe I should be using Bitstream (re-encode)? I'll give that a try with the doors tonight and then go to BB and play it there tomorrow.

Yeah you don't get hidef audio via optical only compressed dts and dolby or pcm 2.0 signal.you need to bit stream via an hdmi connection to get the hi def (lossless)sound or decode with your player and send pcm via analog outs if you have that option.

[Sammy]

No analog or hdmi input on the receiver. I tested Top Gun last night using all three settings. Bitstream (Audiophile) sounded the best of the three.

[CosmoKid]

Let me know if I am understanding this correctly...

You auditioned receivers last night...
You used HoFD to test the new receivers, but you did so using the Dolby Digital Soundtrack, not a HD soundtrack.
You are wondering why it doesn't seem like much of an upgrade.

If I am understanding the above scenario correctly, you are comparing DD to DD, not DD to any HD Audio. So you wouldn;t hear much of a difference.

Also, withotu doing a side by side, you will have a tough time hearing much of a difference.

Mark my words, if you purchase a new receiver, take it home, and doing an A-B comparison to your current set-up you will hear a difference.

Heck, even with just DD doundtracks the receivers you were looking at will sound better.

For the type of speakers you have, my receommendation would be a little less of a receiver anyway. Take a look at the Onkyo 606 or the Yamaha 663. Anything more is better spent upgrading your speakers or sub.

[aramis109]

If your question is about upgrading to get lossless audio... why would you go and listen to lossy audio codecs as a means of determining the worth of such an upgrade?

[Sammy]

Thanks for the replies. That is what I was thinking.. What is BB thinking? If they want to sell an upgrade they should have at least a 6.1 dts MA for sampling. I'm going to go to Pacific Sales today.

As far as the receiver output goes, it is my opinion that getting more receiver allows listening at less than 50% on the volume knob with far less distortion as distortion goes up exponentially on the last 50% of the knob.

[Driver_King]

The way you say you are connecting everything (optical) will never get you lossless surround sound. You will get lossless stereo but not lossless surround sound. You're not talking advantage of what Blu-ray has to offer. You need to get a player or receiver that is able to decode the lossless formats.

[hagar852]

I think his statement saying he couldn't hear a difference between all those receivers makes a great point to the argument of them sounding differently.

[Sammy]

I auditioned Top Gun at BB yesterday... Got them to hook the BD player directly to the Denon 3808, but it was only with 5.1 speakers so the rear channel of the 6.1 dts track on the BD was matrixed at the rear, essentially what I have going on now and my HT still sounds every bit as good.

Pacific Sales is actually going to re-wire one of their demo rooms to be 7.1 so I can hear the 3808 over there later today or next week. They are actually 20 miles away and I was disappointed to find that this high end SoCal retailer still only has 5.1 demonstration rooms just like BB.

How do they propose to sell the high end stuff if they don't have the capacity to let you audition it? As it stands right now, I still am not hearing a reason to upgrade to a 7.1 system.

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by hagar852

I think his statement saying he couldn't hear a difference between all those receivers makes a great point to the argument of them sounding differently.

Eddie Van Halen damaged my ears in 1980 so maybe I'm just tone deaf!

[hagar852]

he almost damaged mine when Sammy went back for the tour they had a few years ago

[mdabb]

You seem dead set on a 7.1 losless demo when all you need to hear is a good 5.1 lossless one. The difference between lossy and lossless is a fairly noticeable one as long as the gear involved is capable.

Do you plan on purchasing the product from the place you are having do all the work, just so you can get a 7.1 demo ??? If you don't think the upgrade to lossless is worth it then so be it. I understand that, but I don't see any person in their right mind thinking that is the case however.

It might be just me but a 5.1 demo should have knocked your socks off, with the right gear of course. At least impressed you, Hmm.......

[Driver_King]

Was everything calibrated? Most of the time, that is what will make a lot of the difference.

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by mdabb

You seem dead set on a 7.1 losless demo when all you need to hear is a good 5.1 lossless one. The difference between lossy and lossless is a fairly noticeable one as long as the gear involved is capable.

Do you plan on purchasing the product from the place you are having do all the work, just so you can get a 7.1 demo ??? If you don't think the upgrade to lossless is worth it then so be it. I understand that, but I don't see any person in their right mind thinking that is the case however.

It might be just me but a 5.1 demo should have knocked your socks off, with the right gear of course. At least impressed you, Hmm.......

The fact is that it was quite impressive but so is my system right now.

[Santeria]

i just watched topgun the other night there is a 5.1 TrueHD codec on there.. or whatever hd codecc.

i saw the 6.1 but i only run a 5.1 setup... sounded pretty dam good to me