Upgrading special effects in old movies what is wrong with it? - Blu-ray Forum

cjones235 · 02-08-2009, 09:20 PM

I just started this to talk about digitaly enhancing special effects in 80's movies. Do you think film's of this era should be updraded or not.

McKellars · 02-08-2009, 09:22 PM

No! Just look at how George Lucas botched Return of the Jedi with that stupid singing scene at Jabba's palace.

cjones235 · 02-08-2009, 09:27 PM

but that's my point if used the right way like ridley scott did with blade runner only enhancing what needed to be changed like the green screen.

McKellars · 02-08-2009, 09:31 PM

Well, I'll be honest with you. I don't think any older films should be tampered with.

Sussudio · 02-08-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McKellars

No! Just look at how George Lucas botched Star Wars OT.

imo george lucas did not "botch" star wars

.

1) the originals are still in existence. it's not like he went and eradicated ever last vhs and dvd copy of them. if you prefer the original, untouched versions you can still have them (and HOPEFULLY the blurays will have them too...fingers crossed)

2) no doubt everyone is entitled to their opinion of the special editions, but you're being fairly naive if you don't understand why he changed them to begin with. he is a filmmaker, and during the time the time of the original trilogy's production he didn't have the capability to do what he truly wanted to do special-effects wise. when the technology finally became available, he did. understand that he wanted to include nearly everything that is in the special editions in the originals but when they initially came out he didn't have the time, money, or resources to do so. if you made a movie and decades later could finally make it what you truly wanted it to be, you would do the same. not everyone may agree with some of the changes he made, but at least try and understand the reasons he made them. they're his movies, not ours.

McKellars · 02-08-2009, 09:39 PM

Well, If it's not broken, don't fix it. And in my opinion Star Wars OT was not broken and never required the "fixing" Lucas did.

Sussudio · 02-08-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McKellars

Well, If it's not broken, don't fix it. And in my opinion Star Wars OT was not broken and never required the "fixing" Lucas did.

don't you think that's also because you saw the originals before the special editions? what if the first and only versions to come were the special editions just as lucas had wanted from the start? we're more affected by it because many of us saw the originals first and were more than satisfied, but i guarantee if lucas had been able to do everything he wanted in the beginning and the special editions were the only copies no one would be bothered by any of the additions. just my thoughts.

McKellars · 02-08-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sussudio

don't you think that's also because you saw the originals before the special editions? what if the first and only versions to come were the special editions?

You make a good point.

TenEightyP · 02-08-2009, 09:46 PM

Generally, no, I don't like films to be tampered with, but if they do, I would always want the option of watching the original.

It's the same with sound, if it was originally recorded in mono for example, given me the option to hear it as it was originally produced.

dadkins · 02-08-2009, 09:50 PM

If the original is hosed/thrashed/just plain not very good, what does it matter?
Sure, try fixing it.
No loss if the movie was El Borko to begin with.

Variable · 02-08-2009, 10:02 PM

as long as it's the original creative minds behind the project I have no problem.

fixing or updating special effects is not the same as what Lucas did with Star Wars. he added a lot. even still, for as much as I don't like some of the changes, it's his movie and his vision, he has that right.

Sussudio · 02-08-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Variable

as long as it's the original creative minds behind the project I have no problem.

fixing or updating special effects is not the same as what Lucas did with Star Wars. he added a lot. even still, for as much as I don't like some of the changes, it's his movie and his vision, he has that right.

that's all i was trying to say. i don't like a lot of them either

My_Two_Cents · 02-09-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sussudio

imo george lucas did not "botch" star wars

.

Agree to a point. Changing the song at the end of RotJ and adding Hayden completely ruined the enhanced version for me.

Edit: And adding the politically correct Greedo shooting first in SW was just pathetic.

Sussudio · 02-09-2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Agree to a point. Changing the song at the end of RotJ and adding Hayden completely ruined the enhanced version for me.

Edit: And adding the politically correct Greedo shooting first in SW was just pathetic.

big +1 to those. there were a fair amount I didn't like, those 3 were definitely at the top.

pjasonOH · 02-09-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjones235

I just started this to talk about digitaly enhancing special effects in 80's movies. Do you think film's of this era should be updraded or not.

I'm not crazy about the idea of whole scenes being redone with CGI,but as far as removing matte lines and soforth,I'm all for it.

Blu As Hell · 02-09-2009, 02:02 AM

I'm cool with upgrading special effects only if it's intergrated seamlessly in the movie and not sticking out like a sore thumb where is so noticable it distracts from the movie.

uziel5000 · 02-09-2009, 04:19 PM

While the results of these remakes can be debated (some people like them, some think its sacrilege) I can certainly understand WHY directors do these things. Especially on films where problems didn't allow them to realize their vision.

Before the whole OT/Special Edition debacle of the 90's, we all heard/read/saw Lucas say many, many times that he was not happy some things in the OT, specially the first one because of budget/studio/technology/acts of God problems. As a perfectionist, he had a chance to fix those things and he took it. The results can be debated but you cant blame the man for trying. The problem is that the films are so loved that there is no way its not gonna cause some controversy. Whether the changes were good or bad.

Ironically, both camps (those who like the changes vs. the ones who don't) benefited from the Special Edition releases. You can now buy both versions if you want and both have a magnificent re-mastering. The films have never looked or sounded better! That wouldn't have happened without the Special Editon project. So in the end its a win - win.

I like most of the changes in the Special Edition. I too think the "concert" scene in ROTJ is not very good. In fact it's my least favorite SE scene. Adding Anakin at the end though, I thought that was awsome! I thought it gave continuity to whole saga. I mean, you just established that Anakin became Vader when he was still fairly young, why show an old man at the end then?

Of course, one of the main problems of discussing these things is that people either love them or completely hate them completely which makes it hard to discuss the good and the bad (I think theres some of both) of the scenes. I have to say though that Sussudio is one of the more level-headed people I have seen discussing this issue.

02-08-2009, 09:20 PM	#1
cjones235 Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Bronx,NY 4K collection:354 Blu-ray collection:891	Upgrading special effects in old movies what is wrong with it? I just started this to talk about digitaly enhancing special effects in 80's movies. Do you think film's of this era should be updraded or not.

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02-08-2009, 09:22 PM	#2
McKellars Senior Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Detroit, Michigan Blu-ray collection:24	No! Just look at how George Lucas botched Return of the Jedi with that stupid singing scene at Jabba's palace.

02-08-2009, 09:27 PM	#3
cjones235 Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Bronx,NY 4K collection:354 Blu-ray collection:891	but that's my point if used the right way like ridley scott did with blade runner only enhancing what needed to be changed like the green screen.

02-08-2009, 09:31 PM	#4
McKellars Senior Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Detroit, Michigan Blu-ray collection:24	Well, I'll be honest with you. I don't think any older films should be tampered with.

02-08-2009, 09:39 PM	#6
McKellars Senior Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Detroit, Michigan Blu-ray collection:24	Well, If it's not broken, don't fix it. And in my opinion Star Wars OT was not broken and never required the "fixing" Lucas did.

02-08-2009, 09:46 PM	#9
TenEightyP Active Member Member since:Jun 2007 Location:United Kingdom 4K collection:1076 Blu-ray collection:5914 DVD collection:140	Generally, no, I don't like films to be tampered with, but if they do, I would always want the option of watching the original. It's the same with sound, if it was originally recorded in mono for example, given me the option to hear it as it was originally produced.

02-08-2009, 09:50 PM	#10
dadkins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Hercules, CA Blu-ray collection:35 Blu-ray reviews:2	If the original is hosed/thrashed/just plain not very good, what does it matter? Sure, try fixing it. No loss if the movie was El Borko to begin with.

02-08-2009, 10:02 PM	#11
Variable Special Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Northern New Jersey Blu-ray collection:12	as long as it's the original creative minds behind the project I have no problem. fixing or updating special effects is not the same as what Lucas did with Star Wars. he added a lot. even still, for as much as I don't like some of the changes, it's his movie and his vision, he has that right.

02-09-2009, 02:02 AM	#16
Blu As Hell Blu-ray Guru Member since:May 2007 Location:Macon Georgia 4K collection:120 Blu-ray collection:461 DVD collection:4 Blu-ray reviews: 1	I'm cool with upgrading special effects only if it's intergrated seamlessly in the movie and not sticking out like a sore thumb where is so noticable it distracts from the movie.

02-09-2009, 04:19 PM	#17
uziel5000 Expert Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Vega Alta, Puerto Rico Blu-ray collection:103	While the results of these remakes can be debated (some people like them, some think its sacrilege) I can certainly understand WHY directors do these things. Especially on films where problems didn't allow them to realize their vision. Before the whole OT/Special Edition debacle of the 90's, we all heard/read/saw Lucas say many, many times that he was not happy some things in the OT, specially the first one because of budget/studio/technology/acts of God problems. As a perfectionist, he had a chance to fix those things and he took it. The results can be debated but you cant blame the man for trying. The problem is that the films are so loved that there is no way its not gonna cause some controversy. Whether the changes were good or bad. Ironically, both camps (those who like the changes vs. the ones who don't) benefited from the Special Edition releases. You can now buy both versions if you want and both have a magnificent re-mastering. The films have never looked or sounded better! That wouldn't have happened without the Special Editon project. So in the end its a win - win. I like most of the changes in the Special Edition. I too think the "concert" scene in ROTJ is not very good. In fact it's my least favorite SE scene. Adding Anakin at the end though, I thought that was awsome! I thought it gave continuity to whole saga. I mean, you just established that Anakin became Vader when he was still fairly young, why show an old man at the end then? Of course, one of the main problems of discussing these things is that people either love them or completely hate them completely which makes it hard to discuss the good and the bad (I think theres some of both) of the scenes. I have to say though that Sussudio is one of the more level-headed people I have seen discussing this issue.

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