Lossless audio sounds different on my cheap HTiB - Blu-ray Forum

JamesKurtovich · 03-11-2009, 05:09 PM

I have the cheapest HTiB on the market. RCA 5.1 set-up from Wal-Mart for $130-some dollars.

I prefer the Dolby Digital track on my BD's because it sounds more level as opposed to the lossless tracks - TrueHD, uncompressed PCM, etc.

I thought that you weren't going to notice a difference between lossless and lossy audio until you got a good receiver? Maybe I'm still getting lossy audio from this uncompressed track, but the sound POPS big time. For example, my 28 Days Later BD has no DD track, only uncompressed. I had to mess with the volume the entire time because their voices would be whispers but when a zombie bursted through the window, it sounded so loud I could've sworn it really happened in my apartment (scared the crap out of my girlfriend). I liked it, but I had to mess with the remote all the time because of extreme changes in volume and I live in a 2nd floor apartment.

andyman1970 · 03-11-2009, 05:13 PM

That's probably because your HTiB doesn't have the built in decoders for the HD soundtracks. It could also be because, like you said "It's the cheapest one on the market." No offense, but you get what you pay for.

SquidPuppet · 03-11-2009, 05:32 PM

What player are you using to decode the lossless?

ckent22 · 03-11-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

I have the cheapest HTiB on the market. RCA 5.1 set-up from Wal-Mart for $130-some dollars.

I prefer the Dolby Digital track on my BD's because it sounds more level as opposed to the lossless tracks - TrueHD, uncompressed PCM, etc.

I thought that you weren't going to notice a difference between lossless and lossy audio until you got a good receiver? Maybe I'm still getting lossy audio from this uncompressed track, but the sound POPS big time. For example, my 28 Days Later BD has no DD track, only uncompressed. I had to mess with the volume the entire time because their voices would be whispers but when a zombie bursted through the window, it sounded so loud I could've sworn it really happened in my apartment (scared the crap out of my girlfriend). I liked it, but I had to mess with the remote all the time because of extreme changes in volume and I live in a 2nd floor apartment.

If it doesn't support the HD audio codecs, then you'll have this problem. Been in the same problem before. Unfortunately, it is true that you do get what you pay for.

Another_Dude · 03-11-2009, 05:36 PM

"Lossless audio sounds different on my cheap HTiB"

<--------- My shocked face

JamesKurtovich · 03-11-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

What player are you using to decode the lossless?

PlayStation 3.

I didn't think there'd be much of a difference between a lossy track and a lossless track on a cheap receiver since a lot of consumers won't have that capability (having an HDTV and a Blu-ray player is usually enough for the average consumer).

SquidPuppet · 03-11-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

PlayStation 3.

I didn't think there'd be much of a difference between a lossy track and a lossless track on a cheap receiver since a lot of consumers won't have that capability (having an HDTV and a Blu-ray player is usually enough for the average consumer).

HDMI to the receiver?

the_r · 03-11-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

PlayStation 3.

I didn't think there'd be much of a difference between a lossy track and a lossless track on a cheap receiver since a lot of consumers won't have that capability (having an HDTV and a Blu-ray player is usually enough for the average consumer).

When your PS3 decodes the soundtrack, it sends it to the receiver as a PCM signal. I'm pretty sure you don't have your PS3 connected to your receiver via HDMI, but instead only optical for the audio, and then HDMI straight from the PS3 to the TV correct?

You should also check what audio settings you've checked off in your PS3 menus. If you have it to bitstream, then regardless of what soundtrack you select in the movie menus, you're only going to get lossy audio because you're receiver can't decode the lossless tracks.

If you chose PCM or LPCM in your PS3 menus, then I'm not sure how that will travel to your receiver since optical cables don't have the bandwidth to accept 5.1 PCM. I know it can do 2.0 PCM though.

keyzone72 · 03-11-2009, 06:02 PM

Most of what the others posters are saying is true. A $130 HTIB from Wal-Mart will only do so much. But aside from considering investing in a player that can decode HD audio, or bitstreaming to a HD receiver, you also will need to consider quality cabling and quality speakers. Once you go down that route, the difference between compressed DD and DTS soundstracks vs. uncompressed PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA-HD will be much more apparent.

zicmubleu · 03-11-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckent22

If it doesn't support the HD audio codecs, then you'll have this problem. Been in the same problem before. Unfortunately, it is true that you do get what you pay for.

Short answer to James is to splurge and buy a semi-decent system. However I don't know if I understand the quoted answer, I would think if his system didn't support a codec it wouldn't play that track at all. I also would think that the OP is using 6 RCA cables for his sound, seriously doubt it has HDMI input - but maybe, that being the case the PS3 would be doing the decoding right?

I would guess the variation in sound levels is just that the system is not well balanced between the center and L/R or surrounds.

JamesKurtovich · 03-11-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

HDMI to the receiver?

No, HDMI straight from the PS3 to the TV. I have the red, white, and yellow plugs (sorry, forgot what this is called!) going from the PS3 into the receiver for audio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_r

When your PS3 decodes the soundtrack, it sends it to the receiver as a PCM signal. I'm pretty sure you don't have your PS3 connected to your receiver via HDMI, but instead only optical for the audio, and then HDMI straight from the PS3 to the TV correct?

Yeah, the HDMI is PS3 to TV and the red, white, and yellow cable is PS3 to receiver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zicmubleu

Short answer to James is to splurge and buy a semi-decent system. However I don't know if I understand the quoted answer, I would think if his system didn't support a codec it wouldn't play that track at all. I also would think that the OP is using 6 RCA cables for his sound, seriously doubt it has HDMI input - but maybe, that being the case the PS3 would be doing the decoding right?

I would guess the variation in sound levels is just that the system is not well balanced between the center and L/R or surrounds.

Actually this morning I purchased a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR606 from ecost. My first real receiver. Been looking for this for a while now too.

Problem is, I live in Alaska and vendors are usually anal about shipping here. A monitor 50 would be around $70 to ship. The sub would be easier, since Amazon seems to ship it for free themselves. But I'm looking for a local dealer at the moment for speakers. Thanks for your help!

aramis109 · 03-11-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Yeah, the HDMI is PS3 to TV and the red, white, and yellow cable is PS3 to receiver.

Not even optical?! First off... unplug the yellow cable since it's video. Secondly, you can only get stereo sound through these. I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure they can't even handle 2.0 lossless. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

blujacket · 03-11-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

No, HDMI straight from the PS3 to the TV. I have the red, white, and yellow plugs (sorry, forgot what this is called!) going from the PS3 into the receiver for audio.

You're not getting lossless audio with those connections.

italiano17771 · 03-11-2009, 06:29 PM

i thought i was the only one! i have to have the remote in my hand during a movie at all times. raise the volume to hear the voices and lower the volme when there are loud scenes. i guess i need to upgrade my audio.

JamesKurtovich · 03-11-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis109

Not even optical?! First off... unplug the yellow cable since it's video. Secondly, you can only get stereo sound through these. I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure they can't even handle 2.0 lossless. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, this receiver doesn't accept video. There's only one way to connect the DVD player and that's by a single cable and the VCR and TV-out channels are simple white and yellow only. I have the PS3 going into the VCR channel. Took me a while to figure out that video went straight into the TV, as my previous RCA receiver accepted the video..

Quote:

Originally Posted by blujacket

You're not getting lossless audio with those connections.

No, I never really expected to. It's just that the sound was different when the BD was running on a lossless audio track. I always go with the lossy Dolby Digital track because when the uncompressed track is selected then I need to constantly work the volume because there's so much "pop" to the sound. DD is more level.

zicmubleu · 03-11-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

No, HDMI straight from the PS3 to the TV. I have the red, white, and yellow plugs (sorry, forgot what this is called!) going from the PS3 into the receiver for audio.

Yeah, the HDMI is PS3 to TV and the red, white, and yellow cable is PS3 to receiver.

Actually this morning I purchased a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR606 from ecost. My first real receiver. Been looking for this for a while now too.

Problem is, I live in Alaska and vendors are usually anal about shipping here. A monitor 50 would be around $70 to ship. The sub would be easier, since Amazon seems to ship it for free themselves. But I'm looking for a local dealer at the moment for speakers. Thanks for your help!

Well it looks like they have you hooked on upgraditis now. For your current situation I think you should tell us the HTIB model. You called it 5.1 but all you seem to mention are stereo or mono connectivity. Generally you have a Red/White/Yellow cable for stereo plus composite video (the yellow is for video but the cable is the same). If you are using only one cable for sound maybe you actually have a coax type connection and could be getting true 5.1 sound. I wouldn't think the low end system has that, but I am out of my league in this area, I don't even have a PS3.

So what are you going to do for speakers?

DonRSD · 03-11-2009, 07:20 PM

whats the model number of your RECEIVER that you currently have hooked up?

go to
www.newegg.com

they offer free shipping

JamesKurtovich · 03-11-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonRSD

whats the model number of your RECEIVER that you currently have hooked up?

go to
www.newegg.com

they offer free shipping

I love the deals at Newegg. Unfortunately they don't ship to AK or HI. Not sure the reason, as Amazon has shipped me a 100 lbs. package once, free of charge.

This is what I have: http://www.amazon.com/RCA-5-1-Channe.../dp/B000P6J79E I bought this as a last minute purchase from Wal-Mart when I purchased my 50" Samsung because my previous RCA receiver shorted out.

Beta Man · 03-11-2009, 08:30 PM

sounds like you need to wait for your new receiver to arrive.. and just deal with the sound you have in the meantime. .... Good luck on finding a local shop too..... how far are you from a fairly "populated" city? There HAS to be audio/video junkies in the great-white-north...... It's a hobby like anything else.... and if most places won't ship there.... someone's profiting off of that....

good luck.

zicmubleu · 03-11-2009, 09:09 PM

It looks like an OK HTIB system to me, but I don't have any real basis for this. However my first question is whether you are using the provided coax cable for the sound from your PS3? I am not familiar with the PS3 but will assume it has a Coax connector. I see that type of connector as being more of an orange than a yellow cable. Yellow is usually used for composite video but the orange cable is really a different cable and is designed for carrying digital audio to the system.

I really couldn't make much sense out of the spec sheets for the system but I did see some sort of control option that said center. The center speaker is where the voices are primarily directed (to my understanding, I don't have a sound system hooked up yet) so if you can increase the volume of that speaker separately you might be able to balance the talking portions of the movies against the overall sound a lot more. Another thing to consider is the placement of the center speaker, yours is designed to be placed horizontal but from what BigDaddy has written it might be worth it to try standing it on end to see if the voice frequencies come through better for you.

One last thing is to double check your speaker connections and there appears to be a distance setting for each speaker you can set, that might impact how the sound is effectively delivered to you.

03-11-2009, 05:09 PM	#1
JamesKurtovich Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Alaska Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:229 Blu-ray reviews:4 Trading Score:2	Lossless audio sounds different on my cheap HTiB I have the cheapest HTiB on the market. RCA 5.1 set-up from Wal-Mart for $130-some dollars. I prefer the Dolby Digital track on my BD's because it sounds more level as opposed to the lossless tracks - TrueHD, uncompressed PCM, etc. I thought that you weren't going to notice a difference between lossless and lossy audio until you got a good receiver? Maybe I'm still getting lossy audio from this uncompressed track, but the sound POPS big time. For example, my 28 Days Later BD has no DD track, only uncompressed. I had to mess with the volume the entire time because their voices would be whispers but when a zombie bursted through the window, it sounded so loud I could've sworn it really happened in my apartment (scared the crap out of my girlfriend). I liked it, but I had to mess with the remote all the time because of extreme changes in volume and I live in a 2nd floor apartment.

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03-11-2009, 05:13 PM	#2
andyman1970 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Birmingham, Alabama, USA DVD collection:9 Blu-ray reviews: 45 Trading Score:7	That's probably because your HTiB doesn't have the built in decoders for the HD soundtracks. It could also be because, like you said "It's the cheapest one on the market." No offense, but you get what you pay for.

03-11-2009, 05:32 PM	#3
SquidPuppet Blu-ray Duke Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Club Loop Blu-ray collection:277 Blu-ray reviews:27	What player are you using to decode the lossless?

03-11-2009, 05:36 PM	#5
Another_Dude Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2008 Blu-ray collection:191 Blu-ray reviews:8	"Lossless audio sounds different on my cheap HTiB" <--------- My shocked face

03-11-2009, 06:02 PM	#9
keyzone72 Member Member since:Nov 2008 4K collection:36 Blu-ray collection:486 Blu-ray reviews:3	Most of what the others posters are saying is true. A $130 HTIB from Wal-Mart will only do so much. But aside from considering investing in a player that can decode HD audio, or bitstreaming to a HD receiver, you also will need to consider quality cabling and quality speakers. Once you go down that route, the difference between compressed DD and DTS soundstracks vs. uncompressed PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA-HD will be much more apparent.

03-11-2009, 06:29 PM	#14
italiano17771 Active Member Member since:Jan 2009 Location:PA Home Theater Gallery:1 Blu-ray collection:177	i thought i was the only one! i have to have the remote in my hand during a movie at all times. raise the volume to hear the voices and lower the volme when there are loud scenes. i guess i need to upgrade my audio.

03-11-2009, 07:20 PM	#17
DonRSD Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2009 Location:South Florida Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:254 Blu-ray reviews: 3 Trading Score:129	whats the model number of your RECEIVER that you currently have hooked up? go to www.newegg.com they offer free shipping

03-11-2009, 08:30 PM	#19
Beta Man Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Juuuuuuuust A Bit Outside.... Home Theater Gallery:4 Blu-ray collection:268 Blu-ray reviews: 18 Trading Score:25	sounds like you need to wait for your new receiver to arrive.. and just deal with the sound you have in the meantime. .... Good luck on finding a local shop too..... how far are you from a fairly "populated" city? There HAS to be audio/video junkies in the great-white-north...... It's a hobby like anything else.... and if most places won't ship there.... someone's profiting off of that.... good luck.

03-11-2009, 09:09 PM	#20
zicmubleu Expert Member Member since:Dec 2008	It looks like an OK HTIB system to me, but I don't have any real basis for this. However my first question is whether you are using the provided coax cable for the sound from your PS3? I am not familiar with the PS3 but will assume it has a Coax connector. I see that type of connector as being more of an orange than a yellow cable. Yellow is usually used for composite video but the orange cable is really a different cable and is designed for carrying digital audio to the system. I really couldn't make much sense out of the spec sheets for the system but I did see some sort of control option that said center. The center speaker is where the voices are primarily directed (to my understanding, I don't have a sound system hooked up yet) so if you can increase the volume of that speaker separately you might be able to balance the talking portions of the movies against the overall sound a lot more. Another thing to consider is the placement of the center speaker, yours is designed to be placed horizontal but from what BigDaddy has written it might be worth it to try standing it on end to see if the voice frequencies come through better for you. One last thing is to double check your speaker connections and there appears to be a distance setting for each speaker you can set, that might impact how the sound is effectively delivered to you.

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