Diminishing Returns: Cabling

[Intamin]

I think we can all agree that with audio diminishing returns exists. I was wondering if there was a consensus as to where this comes into play with interconnects/power cables. For example, is the difference between Nordost's middle of the line interconnects to their Odin or Vallhalla interconnects huge, or is it a tiny difference (for those with experience)? Does diminishing returns kick in at a lower level with interconnects, or is there still a lot to gain with advancement through manufacturers' interconnect series?

PS: I am not talking about speaker cable.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I don't have personal experience with the Nordost line of products, but I suppose it would benefit you if the equipment you owned had the internal sensitivities (for lack of a better word) to recognize the extolling virtues of higher end cables.

I myself am a big believer in upgrading all cabling whenever the componant I introduce to my system is far above the unit it is replacing.

Did this make sense?

John

[rded]

Originally Posted by Intamin

I think we can all agree that with audio diminishing returns exists. I was wondering if there was a consensus as to where this comes into play with interconnects/power cables. For example, is the difference between Nordost's middle of the line interconnects to their Odin or Vallhalla interconnects huge, or is it a tiny difference (for those with experience)? Does diminishing returns kick in at a lower level with interconnects, or is there still a lot to gain with advancement through manufacturers' interconnect series?

PS: I am not talking about speaker cable.

I just ordered Nordost Red Dawn 1.5m DIN to RCA interconnects. The red dawn series sits in th middle of the pack(its the to tier flatline cable next to the norse series). From what I've been told by my dealer, it has 50% of the performance of the Valhalla ICs. The high the line in the Nordost series, the more revealing the cable becomes. It will expose all/any the weaknesses in your system.Sorry, I can't answer about diminishing returns...

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by John72953

I don't have personal experience with the Nordost line of products, but I suppose it would benefit you if the equipment you owned had the internal sensitivities (for lack of a better word) to recognize the extolling virtues of higher end cables.

I myself am a big believer in upgrading all cabling whenever the componant I introduce to my system is far above the unit it is replacing.

Did this make sense?

John

That makes perfect sense, and it's actually what I do/believe in as well. I was just using Nordost as an example, since I'm sure many people are familiar. I was more interested in the bigger picture though, for all manufacturers generally where diminishing returns kicks in. With speakers, it takes a while to really start to see it, didn't know if that was still the case with interconnects.

[Johnny Vinyl]

The formula I've always used is about 15% of the value of my system. It's worked well as I'm happy with all of my connections. Perhaps one day, if I'm able to, I'll go to a 20% formula, because I really would like to find out at what point my investment starts to roll back.

John

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by Intamin

That makes perfect sense, and it's actually what I do/believe in as well. I was just using Nordost as an example, since I'm sure many people are familiar. I was more interested in the bigger picture though, for all manufacturers generally where diminishing returns kicks in. With speakers, it takes a while to really start to see it, didn't know if that was still the case with interconnects.

Part of this will be entirely dependent upon the ability and capabilities as well as the resolving power of your components. As Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company likes to tell me, ultimately the limiting factor in high resolving components (like his upgraded units) is the cabling and power cords.

Rich

[rded]

Originally Posted by John72953

The formula I've always used is about 15% of the value of my system. It's worked well as I'm happy with all of my connections. Perhaps one day, if I'm able to, I'll go to a 20% formula, because I really would like to find out at what point my investment starts to roll back.

John

Ditto John! My 3 front cables plus my IC approches $1.4k. I actually had the chance of upgrading to all Heimdall. But I thought adding a new sub or upgrading to Cofidence 2 or getting a 2nd 2-channel system will work better for me. My delear gave me a very tempting deal on the C2s but the wife gave me an ultimatum on the TT and integrated amp for the 2nd system She said: "the sooner you get the TT and integ amp, the sooner you'll be able to upgrade to the C2s!"

[rded]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Part of this will be entirely dependent upon the ability and capabilities as well as the resolving power of your components. As Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company likes to tell me, ultimately the limiting factor in high resolving components (like his upgraded units) is the cabling and power cords.

Rich

Yup! That'll be my next project. Getting nordost or shunyata power cords, a new power conditioner to replace my F*ckin monster Power cond and this

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by rded

Ditto John! My 3 front cables plus my IC approches $1.4k. I actually had the chance of upgrading to all Heimdall. But I thought adding a new sub or upgrading to Cofidence 2 or getting a 2nd 2-channel system will work better for me. My delear gave me a very tempting deal on the C2s but the wife gave me an ultimatum on the TT and integrated amp for the 2nd system She said: "the sooner you get the TT and integ amp, the sooner you'll be able to upgrade to the C2s!"

You gotta love the ladies!

I think many people, if not most (even on this forum), would tell us that we are wasting our money incorporating better accessories (such as cabling, wire, stands, isolation tweaks, etc). Even with my entry-level system I can tell the difference good upgrades make. I can only imagine what those differences would be like on a system like yours, Intamin and naturephoto1(Rich).

John

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Part of this will be entirely dependent upon the ability and capabilities as well as the resolving power of your components. As Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company likes to tell me, ultimately the limiting factor in high resolving components (like his upgraded units) is the cabling and power cords.

Rich

Power cords are also my next area of upgrade, as well as a power conditioner. And I'm with you John, I notice a difference, and while I have done no "scientific" tests, I have done comparisons and enjoyed the improvement. Plus, it's fun little tweaks like getting new cables and what not that are part of the enjoyment of this hobby.

[rded]

Originally Posted by John72953

You gotta love the ladies!

I think many people, if not most (even on this forum), would tell us that we are wasting our money incorporating better accessories (such as cabling, wire, stands, isolation tweaks, etc). Even with my entry-level system I can tell the difference good upgrades make. I can only imagine what those differences would be like on a system like yours, Intamin and naturephoto1(Rich).

John

I know John. You, me, Intamin and the 3 Riches are true audio enthusiasts and because of that we are considered a "dying breed". I am really glad that you guys are here to educated or at least give your honest to goodness advice other members.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by rded

I know John. You, me, Intamin and the 3 Riches are true audio enthusiasts and because of that we are considered a "dying breed". I am really glad that you guys are here to educated or at least give your honest to goodness advice other members.

I'm not sure about the "advice-giving" part for myself , but yes I have a lot of passion about this. It would be hoot to get all of us in a room to sit and chat about all of this!

As a an aside: Great Thread Intamin!

John

[naturephoto1]

Guys,

You may wish to look into some of the ICs and power cords from Kevin in Taiwan that many of Dave Schulte's customers use. Kevin also makes a higher end line of some of these products sold under Dave's Time Portal line name. Here is a link for one of his silver ICs that I like very much:

http://tinyurl.com/dlcqs2

Check out Kevin's other products. He uses some of the best available materials coming in from China and does the work in Taipei. He is using most of the same materials used by the high end users in the US for a huge cost savings.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Guys,

You may wish to look into some of the ICs and power cords from Kevin in Taiwan that many of Dave Schulte's customers use. Kevin also makes a higher end line of some of these products sold under Dave's Time Portal line name. Here is a link for one of his silver ICs that I like very much:

http://tinyurl.com/dlcqs2

Check out Kevin's other products. He uses some of the best available materials coming in from China and does the work in Taipei. He is using most of the same materials used by the high end users in the US for a huge cost savings.

Hi Rich,

Once this economic downturn lets up I'll be investigating some of the suggestions you have brought forward.

John

[rded]

Originally Posted by John72953

Hi Rich,

Once this economic downturn lets up I'll be investigating some of the suggestions you have brought forward.

John

What are you talking about? You're in Canada! You guys have it really good up there!

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by rded

What are you talking about? You're in Canada! You guys have it really good up there!

Trust me Rhett! For reasons I won't go into, it's hit me hard. But yes, the Canadian economy, in part because of our excellent Banking system, is in better shape than that of the U.S.

Let's hope we all come out of this by the end of the year if not in the 1st. Qtr of 2010. I'm optimistic about that!

John

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by rded

I know John. You, me, Intamin and the 3 Riches are true audio enthusiasts and because of that we are considered a "dying breed". I am really glad that you guys are here to educated or at least give your honest to goodness advice other members.

Rhett,

Don't forget to add Big Daddy, Greg (gremal), Sir Terrance, Woody, Andrew (mdabb), Nick (welwynnick), Prerich, Steve (dobyblue) and a few others to this short list for the lunie asylum.

Rich

[rded]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Rhett,

Don't forget to add Big Daddy, Greg (gremal), Sir Terrance, Woody, Andrew (mdabb), Nick (welwynnick), Prerich, Steve (dobyblue) and a few others to this short list for the lunie asylum.

Rich

My Bad Rich!! I guess the looney bin group is a lot bigger than I originally thought! We should have a convention

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Rhett,

Don't forget to add Big Daddy, Greg (gremal), Sir Terrance, Woody, Andrew (mdabb), Nick (welwynnick), Prerich, Steve (dobyblue) and a few others to this short list for the lunie asylum.

Rich

And rich (richteer)! And you know what else Rich, when some of us started posting in the vinyl section on a regular basis we 've had some people come there expressing a great interest in that format and 2-channel audio in general. Guys like CasualKiller and my buddy Opips! Gotta love him!

John

[rded]

Originally Posted by John72953

Trust me Rhett! For reasons I won't go into, it's hit me hard. But yes, the Canadian economy, in part because of our excellent Banking system, is in better shape than that of the U.S.

Let's hope we all come out of this by the end of the year if not in the 1st. Qtr of 2010. I'm optimistic about that!

John

John, sorry for the insensitive comment.I really do apologize I know a lot of people are hurting right now and the bluray forums is a great escape from all our troubles.